Pruitt and Fulmer have hijacked the offense

#176
#176
Devo182 said:
Thoughts have been there among the base ever since CJP emphatically stated what the offense would be before TH ever said a word. Strengthened by this season's play and, finally, finished with the thread on Trace Armstrong. The evidence is overwhelming this is NOT Helton's offense. Never was.
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You nor anyone else on here have a damn clue what Helton’s offense is, he’s never had an offense and he certainly hasn’t had one with this horrible of an offensive line in front of it. BTW Pruitt is the HC he can interject in any damn thing he wants, it’s his ass on the line... Pretty sure yer clueless as to what CPF is doing ever. Please stick to listening to bad 80’s soft core punk bands and whip it real good.
 
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#177
#177
jakez4ut said:
well just keep in mind, we're talking about calling the play.

not wether or not the play is successful.

our perceived run, run, pass punt issue could turn in to pass, pass, pass punt, really darn quick....
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No doubt, but we are already losing every p5 game by 26 points. And even pass-pass-punt will end with a big play eventually or a PI to move the sticks, a few things running offer little hope of. What are we trying to protect? Our history of close games or some perceived honor?

And you lay out a worst case scenario. But what if we hit on some pass plays or get PI against the other team? They loosen up and then we can run with some space. That is a potential outcome too.

Running 70% of the time and banking on a very mediocre D to win us a game where we are at a talent disadvantage is exactly what the opponent hopes we do. Game theory shows why you should often do exactly what your opponent does not want you to do. In this case, take shots and open things up. Don't play standard. Standard will lose almost every time when you are at this big a disadvantage.

Reminds me of 2015 SECCG. UF was a shell of its midseason team and had no hope vs Bama. Thry had no offense and a good defense. Their run blocking was SO bad they could only average .7 YPC. So what did they do? Opened it up and started taking bombs. Got some PI calls and eventually a few completions to finish 15 to 29 in a loss. Did they ever have a good chance? Not really, but they gave themselves a chance in any way they could. No death by 1000 cuts, which is what our run heavy offense currently is.
 
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#178
#178
sjt18 said:
But you are complaining about something that EVERY HC does. Saban interjects himself into the O... Meyer into the D... Smart into the O. Mullens definitely involves himself in the D. All good coaches are able to pull all 3 elements of the game together.
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HCs interject to some degree and that's fine. That's not what we are talking about, we are talking defining the whole philosophy on the side of the ball they HAVE NEVER COACHED. Spurrier, Kiffin, etc never said a word about how they would run their entire D.
 
#180
#180
manndingo said:
You nor anyone else on here have a damn clue what Helton’s offense is, he’s never had an offense and he certainly hasn’t had one with this horrible of an offensive line in front of it. BTW Pruitt is the HC he can interject in any damn thing he wants, it’s his ass on the line... Pretty sure yer clueless as to what CPF is doing ever. Please stick to listening to bad 80’s soft core punk bands and whip it real good.
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Most capable brained people can generally estimate based on his coaching tree that he would in no way be keeping a run/pass ratio of 2:1. This ain't Brohm nor Clay. Did he just disown the Petrino coaching tree for some ram n' jam philosophy?? It seems very unlikely.
 
#181
#181
Devo182 said:
No doubt, but we are already losing every p5 game by 26 points. And even pass-pass-punt will end with a big play eventually or a PI to move the sticks, a few things running offer little hope of. What are we trying to protect? Our history of close games or some perceived honor?

And you lay out a worst case scenario. But what if we hit on some pass plays or get PI against the other team? They loosen up and then we can run with some space. That is a potential outcome too.

Running 70% of the time and banking on a very mediocre D to win us a game where we are at a talent disadvantage is exactly what the opponent hopes we do. Game theory shows why you should often do exactly what your opponent does not want you to do. In this case, take shots and open things up. Don't play standard. Standard will lose almost every time when you are at this big a disadvantage.

Reminds me of 2015 SECCG. UF was a shell of its midseason team and had no hope vs Bama. Thry had no offense and a good defense. Their run blocking was SO bad they could only average .7 YPC. So what did they do? Opened it up and started taking bombs. Got some PI calls and eventually a few completions to finish 15 to 29 in a loss. Did they ever have a good chance? Not really, but they gave themselves a chance in any way they could. No death by 1000 cuts, which is what our run heavy offense currently is.
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it's all if's and but's right now.

the only known is that we're just not very good offensively. and something needs to change. execution? play calling? both?
 
#182
#182
Devo182 said:
HCs interject to some degree and that's fine. That's not what we are talking about, we are talking defining the whole philosophy on the side of the ball they HAVE NEVER COACHED. Spurrier, Kiffin, etc never said a word about how they would run their entire D.
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the elder Kiffin did. little different dynamic when daddy is running that side of the ball. i'm sure that conversation went something like this "shut up Jr., i got this".

and i dont' think anything was defined as to what type of offense would be run. he established what he wanted the identity to be. you can accomplish that identity thru several different types of offensive concepts.
 
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#183
#183
hUTch2002 said:
You must not be a good leader then because you should’ve hired someone to post for you as it clearly isn’t your area of expertise. Delegation. I’m just playing man. It’s the smart ass in me. I do get your overall theme and am frustrated with the super conservative approach to start games too but what I would like to know is what changed the second half against UGA? Did Pruitt advise Helton to open it up? Is it totally Helton’s call? We just don’t know the answers so everything is an assumption.
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He opened it up because he was down 24-0. There was no other choice.
 
#184
#184
Devo182 said:
Why would a defensive HC think he knows enough to HAVE an offensive philosophy?? He has no more offensive experience than Spurrier did on defense. Do you think Spurrier ever dictated the defense to his DC? Gtfo

People are waay underestimating offensive philosophies. It is entire CAREERS for the best and Pruitt thinks he can just come up with his own philosophy, from where does he get such arrogance? Probably why so many defensive HCs BLOW at scoring. They are intervening in an area they don't belong!

Leave experts to their area.
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I think you have a very inflated view of "expertise" when it comes to football. I assure you that OCs have a very strong sense of defensive philosophies, just as DCs understand offense quite well. Do you not think a good defensive coordinator can look at film and understand what an offensive is doing to be successful? If they did not, they could not scheme against them.

In the military, you depend on your knowledge of an assault to establish your defensive position. Same idea in football.
 
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#185
#185
SaintLouisVol said:
I think you have a very inflated view of "expertise" when it comes to football. I assure you that OCs have a very strong sense of defensive philosophies, just as DCs understand offense quite well. Do you not think a good defensive coordinator can look at film and understand what an offensive is doing to be successful? If they did not, they could not scheme against them.

In the military, you depend on your knowledge of an assault to establish your defensive position. Same idea in football.
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yeah, you hear former players that played for david cutcliffe, and the first thing they tell you is that he was the best teacher of defense they have had.
 
#186
#186
Sounds like a case of Muschampitis to me. Chump interfered himself right out of a job at UF, basically handcuffing/crippling his own OC repeatedly; I'm assuming he learned from his UF mistakes and is better at USC... but like most things, time will tell.
 
#190
#190
manndingo said:
You nor anyone else on here have a damn clue what Helton’s offense is, he’s never had an offense and he certainly hasn’t had one with this horrible of an offensive line in front of it. BTW Pruitt is the HC he can interject in any damn thing he wants, it’s his ass on the line... Pretty sure yer clueless as to what CPF is doing ever. Please stick to listening to bad 80’s soft core punk bands and whip it real good.
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Best post I've read in a while. A lot of people don't understand that top notch defensive coordinators have a great understanding of offenses. They better if they want to stop people.
 
#191
#191
Devo182 said:
Why would a defensive HC think he knows enough to HAVE an offensive philosophy?? He has no more offensive experience than Spurrier did on defense. Do you think Spurrier ever dictated the defense to his DC? Gtfo

People are waay underestimating offensive philosophies. It is entire CAREERS for the best and Pruitt thinks he can just come up with his own philosophy, from where does he get such arrogance? Probably why so many defensive HCs BLOW at scoring. They are intervening in an area they don't belong!

Leave experts to their area.
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I can assure you that CJP knows a great deal of offensive football. That's one of his many characteristics that has made him a really good DC. If you're going to stop people you better know and understand what it is they're trying to do to you.
 
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#192
#192
Devo182 said:
HCs interject to some degree and that's fine. That's not what we are talking about, we are talking defining the whole philosophy on the side of the ball they HAVE NEVER COACHED. Spurrier, Kiffin, etc never said a word about how they would run their entire D.
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That is still the job and authority of the HC. IMO, he's protecting the D and OL at this point. By extension, he's not throwing the ball enough to get one or both QB's killed. More pass attempts while the OL is missing as many assignments as they have... is a recipe for injured QB's.

ALL of this has to fit together. Jones NEVER optimized a team. At least Pruitt is trying to do so.

But ftr… yeah. Spurrier did. Kiffin while at UT had Monte. Saban has DEFINITELY said how the entire O would run.

Now if you are talking about micromanaging then that's rare and usually short-lived. But there's no proof Pruitt is doing that. He's simply telling the O what they can and cannot do. He's setting objectives for them. That's his job.
 
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#193
#193
Haven't read every post, but it has to do with our lack of pass protection, especially long developing pass plays.

Even at our meager 2.8ypc, inflated by a couple chunk play, 3rd &6 is much more manageable than 3rd & long, where the defense can bring heavy pressure we obviously can't handle.

Now the 3rd & 4 running plays we have called, I cant defend.
 
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