Pruitt and Fulmer have hijacked the offense

#126
#126
I've read several post about how dynamic we are at WR and that we have players that can stretch the field. I have to disagree. I believe we have some good WR's but none of them can run and truly take the top off. Again, I believe we have some talent at WR but stretching the field is not what they do best. We need to fill this need in the 2019 recruiting cycle.
 
#128
#128
BDP! said:
I've read several post about how dynamic we are at WR and that we have players that can stretch the field. I have to disagree. I believe we have some good WR's but none of them can run and truly take the top off. Again, I believe we have some talent at WR but stretching the field is not what they do best. We need to fill this need in the 2019 recruiting cycle.
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where?
 
#129
#129
DiderotsGhost said:
I know people are going to give the OP hell for this post, and I agree he's being too harsh in his criticisms, but if you were to ask me what I'm most concerned about right now with Pruitt ... this would be near the top of the list.

OP has some valid concerns. Right now, our O-line gets pushed back 2 yards on every running play. Whereas, we have a QB that is very accurate and can throw deep, and we have a host of WRs that can make big plays. Yet, we continue to run the ball with too much predictability in spite of the fact that it's not working.

Of course, the counter here is that with the O-line issues, it's really a "pick your poison" type deal. You either ineffectively run the ball or you "air it out" with more effectiveness, but watch your QB get beaten to a pulp every game.

This is why I've given Pruitt somewhat of a pass thus far. It's not like there's a "good option" right now until we get the O-line fixed. Nevertheless, to me, it's been pretty obvious that the passing game has been more of a strength than the run game. And we're not going to beat good teams without throwing the ball more.

That said, the coaches do seem to be experimenting with different approaches. I thought we hit the "right balance" in the 2nd half of that Georgia game (whereas, we got too conservative and run-happy in the 1st half).
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appreciate the level-headed post on a board thats mostly just hot takes of extremes
 
#130
#130
Devo182 said:
From the moment CJP stated this would be a "power run" offense, you already knew Helton and his Brohm/pass-heavy background were being manipulated. You could only hope the oversight would be minimal.

5 games in and we all see this isn't true. Despite running for a horrendous 2.8 YPC in league play, while passing for 7.5 YPA (similar ratios overall; pathetic at the run and nationally top-25 at pass efficiency), UT and Helton (presumably) continue to call run plays with a 2:1 ratio to pass plays. This is very UNlike Helton and what he would have learned from Brohm.

Why does Pruitt feel the need to interject himself on offense? Why did we even come out and define our offensive phililosophy without it being the OC's input? What is the role of the OC here? Should Butch have allowed a defensive identity to form a priori to Shoop the last few years?

I just can't fathom why offensive HCs interject on the defense and defensive HCs do the same on offense. Just LET IT GO ffs. This is a recurring problem at UT.
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This is not a smart take. Pruitt is just trying to get thru this year. If being a run heavy offense to eat up clock is what it takes to do that, by all means, do it.
 
#131
#131
DonDiego said:
I would definitely say not overwhelming. Since every coach has the right to establish his team's identity, offense and defense, the more likely scenario is CJP and Helton met a priori 😊 to Helton's hiring and Helton enthusiastically agreed.
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Must of been a quid pro quo in there somewhere too don’t you think?
 
#132
#132
jakez4ut said:
where?
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Look for it yourself. I've read several post that state we have play makers at WR. I respectfully disagree. Other than JJ I don't believe there is a WR that could play for any of the Tennessee teams from the 80's, 90's, or early 2000's. I think we have some good players but not really any difference makers.
 
#133
#133
MADISONGAVOL said:
If you can't run ball effectively in this league you will lose....thats a fact that goes back many years....Pruitt knows that
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Many ways to run well. Auburn, Miss st, LSU, UK, Bama, UGA, Dobbs at UT. It doesn't mean you have to force a "2 yards and a cloud of dust" philosophy on a team completely incapable of pushing the pocket forward.
 
#134
#134
Just remember what Woody Hayes said about passing the ball..."You complete the pass, that’s good,”. “You don’t complete it, that’s bad. Or the other team intercepts it and that’s very bad.”
I think CJP remembers this Quote!
 
#136
#136
I think if most of us here including me were to sit in on all the offensive meets this week we would all be completely lost and the conversation would consist of subjects and terms we weren’t familiar with. So to go to a message board and try to explain/critique play calling etc seems simply out of our league. JMO of course.
 
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#137
#137
GetEmVols said:
Because he is the head coach and has the most to lose.
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Not a good reason to take over something you aren't an expert of. To the contrary, it's very bad reasoning. Do you think Mark Zuckerberg tells the accountants how to handle FASB directives or the HR staff how to handle ACA?

This isn't how leaders delegate and direct. It's how micromanagers react when they lack trust in those they've hired or believe they know best.
 
#139
#139
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I think this is just a calculated gamble moreso than a hijack. I'm mostly convinced, not positive mind you, that Butch would've made a bowl game last season if the team had not quit on him. I think that our best shot at a bowl game this year would've been to let the upperclassmen play in a system that is more or less suited to their strengths and training. CJP does not want to run Butch's offense. This is a throwaway year for the new staff. I'm sure they wouldn't say it out loud, but I doubt they care much about how many wins we get this season. They wanted to implement the I and they did it. Whether it is the right decision is TBD but the answer will probably have more to do with how well they recruit than the scheme.
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I don't believe this theory that the team quit. Tell the team they are quitters. Call out the ones that indeed quit. Because I don't believe it. They aren't quitters. Just not a good football team.

This same theory said once CbJ left we would magically "play for each other", aka get asswhipped by LSU and Vandy. Suddenly the fans showed up for LSU (what great "fans" to sandbag half the season, that really helped the players).

And when exactly did this team quit? When they took USC to the end and JG was on his knees in agony?! Or was it playing scrap for scrap vs UK?! This is horsecrap and everyone knows it. Not quitters. Just a bad team. If you want to pile it on the coaches last year, fine. But don't put it on the kids that tried their best while.
 
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#140
#140
ProudVOLfan said:
FTR its here Vols Tuesday Practice Thread: Auburn Week
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i don't think that thread is any real evidence of anyone talking up the "blow the top off the defense" ability of the WR's?

most of that was about who was and wasn't a play maker, and hte original post that got it started was about the screen game.

and virtually everyone that even said they thought some of those guys were playmakers, admitted in some way shape or form that it was a term used loosely.

and there was heckuvalot of debate from others to contradict the point. so i don't think there's this overwhelming sense that we think we have "great" WR's.

either way, not sure how much i care about debating this point. just thought it was odd. i've never gotten the impression (aside from a select few that will always see things a little more orange than they really are) that we, as a fanbase, have an overinflated opinion of our WR's.
 
#141
#141
volfannbama said:
Why would you hire a coordinator that went against your offensive philosophy?
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Why would a defensive HC think he knows enough to HAVE an offensive philosophy?? He has no more offensive experience than Spurrier did on defense. Do you think Spurrier ever dictated the defense to his DC? Gtfo

People are waay underestimating offensive philosophies. It is entire CAREERS for the best and Pruitt thinks he can just come up with his own philosophy, from where does he get such arrogance? Probably why so many defensive HCs BLOW at scoring. They are intervening in an area they don't belong!

Leave experts to their area.
 
#142
#142
Devo182 said:
Why would a defensive HC think he knows enough to HAVE an offensive philosophy?? He has no more offensive experience than Spurrier did on defense. Do you think Spurrier ever dictated the defense to his DC? Gtfo

People are waay underestimating offensive philosophies. It is entire CAREERS for the best and Pruitt thinks he can just come up with his own philosophy, from where does he get such arrogance? Probably why so many defensive HCs BLOW at scoring. They are intervening in an area they don't belong!

Leave experts to their area.
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I agree man. Just a funny argument posed by the "real fan" that have now found themselves in a catch 22.
 
#143
#143
WildTurkey said:
Mission accomplished OP, 5+ pages of replies to the troll job.
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Ha! Never a troll job. I've been saying this since WVU and the more evidence that comes along the more I believe it.

I posted stats elsewhere showing WKU and USC pass/run ratios. WKU was like 60/40 pass. USC was 53/47 pass...now UT is 65/35 RUN?! I don't buy this is Helton for a moment. No way this is what he learned from Brohm.
 
#144
#144
jakez4ut said:
i don't think that thread is any real evidence of anyone talking up the "blow the top off the defense" ability of the WR's?

most of that was about who was and wasn't a play maker, and hte original post that got it started was about the screen game.

and virtually everyone that even said they thought some of those guys were playmakers, admitted in some way shape or form that it was a term used loosely.

and there was heckuvalot of debate from others to contradict the point. so i don't think there's this overwhelming sense that we think we have "great" WR's.

either way, not sure how much i care about debating this point. just thought it was odd. i've never gotten the impression (aside from a select few that will always see things a little more orange than they really are) that we, as a fanbase, have an overinflated opinion of our WR's.
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I am not debating either way, just pointing you to what I thought he was referencing
 
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#146
#146
photovol said:
How did you become so intelligent?
WTF
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UtK education man. The same school that educated Drew Richmond, whom after 4 years, now comes up with such delightful statements as, "we hungry". Educayshun man...
 
#147
#147
kmkemp11 said:
Pruitt probably looks at how many times we take sacks that end drives and concludes we need to run the ball. In fact, the causation is in the opposite direction: we take so many sacks because we only pass in situations where the other team knows that we have to pass.

It was a little better against UGA though. Maybe we'll see a more balanced attack going forward.
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My man. He should also check how many TFLs and high our opponents' "stuff rate" is. These runs are going nowhere and giving us 0 chance at success.
 
#148
#148
Devo182 said:
My man. He should also check how many TFLs and high our opponents' "stuff rate" is. These runs are going nowhere and giving us 0 chance at success.
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i'm pretty sure that's exactly the sentiment he relayed on the CJP show the morning after the FL game.

the next week against GA, we saw a better attempt at balancing that out some.
 
#149
#149
GAVol said:
You can't RPO when the defense isn't afraid of the run AND isn't afraid of getting beat over the top.
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Exactly. Which is why they should throw them out of the playbook.

I can't imagine anyone is game planning around a QB who has a career 82 rushes for -53 yards. Granted there is a lot of sack yardage in there but JG has shown zero aptitude for being a runner.
 
#150
#150
i do think it's a fair question to ask why a new 1st time head coach that's made no bones about what his level of invovlement is going to be on the defensive side of the ball would be, hired a 1st time OC w/no experience calling plays/managing a game.

pruitt made it pretty clear he was going to call defensive plays and be involved wiht the defense a great deal. gave me the impression he would let the offensive coaches...coach. in that scenario, why woulnd't you want a more experienced OC/play caller? (i'm not calling for Helton's head here)

as far as offensive philosophy, i don't thing that should get confused with having your own offensive concepts. two different things. pruitt wants to be physical in the run game, multiple in the passing game, and be able to find and take advantage of match ups. you can do those things a variety of ways. i don't think he's pigeon holed himself in to anything by stating those as goals for the offense.

none of that means that you, as the head coach, wouldn't intervene if you don't think things are going the way you want/expect them to, or if you think you can help them find ways to work thru or around some issues. and if you do, that certainly doesn't autmoatically equate to micro managing or hijacking the offense.
 
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