Paul Finebaum

#52
#52
LA Vol said:
Forget comparisons with Saban and Dooley. But Finebaum makes a valid point about trying to redefine expectations. Winning three consecutive bowl games does not equal winning the SECE and the MCB isn't the Sugar Bowl. And 8-4 in Year 5 isn't likely to get us to the SECCG in ATL. That's a disappointment.
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Jones has been pretty crafty in that regard given many of his comments over the years, it makes plenty of sense.
 
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#53
#53
1chattyvols1 said:
Alot of you dog Finebaum, but he is spot on in this article!
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Yep. He could have stopped right here:

"In your fifth year, you shouldn’t be talking about your first year."

Trotting out how tough year one was five years ago isn't garnering sympathy from anyone except the true adherents of the Church of Butch.™
 
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#54
#54
BeardedVol said:
That's just cheesy coach-speak. Offering up 'improved APR' and '3 consecutive seasons with a bowl win' as a consolation for not taking the division is more along the lines of Butch trying to redefine success.
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Disagree with the last point. The Apr was a real issue.

I mean really what is he supposed to do? Not acknowledge any progress anywhere else but in the field? "I suck until I get to ATL, and I'm not doing anything else until then... That's all anyone cares about anyway"

We always talk about how running a program like Tennessee is a big job,..., too big for cbj...but we're not supposed to talk about it in terms of success in those other areas?

News flash.... Winning will always be #1 on the to do list.... But here we are discounting other things he has actually done a good job with.... It really doesn't matter.

Has it ever occurred to anyone there's a reason he's defensive?
 
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#57
#57
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I agree completely that what he stated about Jones in that interview is plainly obvious and it seems to have pissed off a chunk of our fanbase. I hope that Butch either fails or succeeds in a big way this year so this whole thing can be put behind us one way or another. Really not looking forward to another season of petty squabbling, name calling and hurt feelings, which is exactly what we'll have if it's a 7 or 8 win regular season.
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Agreed.
 
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#58
#58
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I agree completely that what he stated about Jones in that interview is plainly obvious and it seems to have pissed off a chunk of our fanbase. I hope that Butch either fails or succeeds in a big way this year so this whole thing can be put behind us one way or another. Really not looking forward to another season of petty squabbling, name calling and hurt feelings, which is exactly what we'll have if it's a 7 or 8 win regular season.
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Wouldn't change this one at all.
 
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#59
#59
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I'd add that Butch is handicapped by fans who don't really expect much, thereby letting him skate without feeling any real pressure to move the program up the pecking order. Saban doesn't have that luxury.
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So in layman's terms, those fans that don't pine for Chip Kelly after lopping off Butch's head are HURTING the program? Knew that was the narrative, refreshing to have it blurted out without conscience:peace2:
 
#60
#60
fade route said:
Saban demands success, Butch demands improvement
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Hard to really respond to that cause really at its base level its true.

Both believe in process... Why they believe in it.... To improve.... To be successful... One might say to improve is success. I'll let you guess which one that would probably be...lol
 
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#61
#61
jakez4ut said:
Disagree with the last point. The Apr was a real issue.

I mean really what is he supposed to do? Not acknowledge any progress anywhere else but in the field? "I suck until I get to ATL, and I'm not doing anything else until then... That's all anyone cares about anyway"

We always talk about how running a program like Tennessee is a big job,..., too big for cbj...but we're not supposed to talk about it in terms of success in those other areas?

News flash.... Winning will always be #1 on the to do list.... But here we are discounting other things he has actually dune a good job with.... It really doesn't matter.

Has it ever occurred to anyone there's a reason he's defensive?
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Setting a goal to improve APR isn't an issue, but offering up an improved APR in response to criticism over missed on-the-field expectations, is trying to redefine what success is for an SEC football program.

You can improve every aspect of the program, but if you still aren't able to produce on the field, then the program is still not successful.

Butch knows that unless he brings up the Dooley-years, then what he has accomplished at UT in the last five years isn't that impressive, and it's exactly why he's going into his fifth season and still bringing up his first.
 
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#62
#62
BeecherVol said:
Jones has been pretty crafty in that regard given many of his comments over the years, it makes plenty of sense.
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Yep. He's excellent at reshaping expectations to focus on the areas where we've had success, while trying to sidestep or downplay the areas where success has not been forthcoming. It's salesmanship and he's a master salesman. It's one reason he's so good at recruiting.

Anything involving the word "champion" or "championship" has become a landmine. "Disappointment" might have become one, as well. Fans want to win a championship and are disappointed we haven't-- and that won't go away until UT wins the SECE.
 
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#63
#63
fans of the teams in the SEC East are all frustrated. Even of the bad teams. Missouri and Vandy fans might be the only ones not frustrated.

Georgia fans are frustrated by the fact that Florida and Tennessee have been as bad as they are going to be and the best Georgia has been able to do is make 2 SEC title games since 2010. They don't have squat to show for any of it. Not even a BCS bowl appearance.

Florida fans have been frustrated by the fact that if they had a QB as good as Uncle Rico since Tim Tebow left campus, who knows how many more games they could have won or how big the gap would be today between them and the rest of the division.

Tennessee fans are frustrated because while other schools in the division have been bad, they've been worse. No division titles. One win against a Florida team that struggles to cross midfield since 2009. Multiple losses to Vandy. etc.

Kentucky and South Carolina fans are frustrated because they know this is the best it's ever going to look and they still aren't worth a damn. Kentucky has one win total against Florida and Tennessee in the last several years and they are fortunate to have that one. South Carolina, for all its improvement under Steve Spurrier, won the division once and lost to Auburn by a score that made Florida's last couple of SEC title apprearances look respectable.

We are all dying to be the first to break through. We all believe that if we are, we will have a stranglehold on the division for a while. I know as a Gator fan I feel that if we can win the division with the squads we've put on the field the last two years, imagine if we were worth a crud.

JMO.
 
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#64
#64
Shula was just a stop gap or a bridge till they got something better. Was he that bad of a coach or did their restrictions cause his lack of success.
 
#65
#65
BeardedVol said:
Setting a goal to improve APR isn't an issue, but offering up an improved APR in response to criticism over missed on-the-field expectations, is trying to redefine what success is for an SEC football program.

You can improve every aspect of the program, but if you still aren't able to produce on the field, then the program is still not successful.

Butch knows that unless he brings up the Dooley-years, then what he has accomplished at UT in the last five years isn't that impressive, and it's exactly why he's going into his fifth season and still bringing up his first.
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I don't disagree with this at all. Said many times... Its year 5... Its his program now, and what happened prior really has no bearing on what the expectation should be now...

I do think though you can do that, and still acknowledge what has improved.... And not waiver on what needs to happen moving forward...i.e... Don't discount what has been done... And still have expectations for what should happen going forward.

And keep in mind, if he doesn't win, he will get fired, regardless of the Apr or however many 2nd tier bowls we go to...

I think everyone knows that deep down...
 
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#66
#66
VOLINVONORE said:
Not true.
When Saban arrived at Mama he had 3 times the talent and depth as Butch had when he arrived at Tennessee, plus he has already built his SEC reputation when he was at LSU.
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It is absolutely true that Bama didn't beat Louisiana Monroe in Saban's first year

Bama's 3 recruiting rankings before Saban - 21 (2004), 16 (2005), 13 (2006) - Per 24/7

Dooley's 3 classes - 7 (2010), 14 (2011) and 17 (2012) - Per 24/7

Saban inherited a team on probation as well. No doubt Butch inherited a bigger mess than Saban since Dooley was the worst coach in SEC history but let's not pretend Saban inherited a championship caliber team either.
 
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#67
#67
99gator said:
fans of the teams in the SEC East are all frustrated. Even of the bad teams. Missouri and Vandy fans might be the only ones not frustrated.

Georgia fans are frustrated by the fact that Florida and Tennessee have been as bad as they are going to be and the best Georgia has been able to do is make 2 SEC title games since 2010. They don't have squat to show for any of it. Not even a BCS bowl appearance.

Florida fans have been frustrated by the fact that if they had a QB as good as Uncle Rico since Tim Tebow left campus, who knows how many more games they could have won or how big the gap would be today between them and the rest of the division.

Tennessee fans are frustrated because while other schools in the division have been bad, they've been worse. No division titles. One win against a Florida team that struggles to cross midfield since 2009. Multiple losses to Vandy. etc.

Kentucky and South Carolina fans are frustrated because they know this is the best it's ever going to look and they still aren't worth a damn. Kentucky has one win total against Florida and Tennessee in the last several years and they are fortunate to have that one. South Carolina, for all its improvement under Steve Spurrier, won the division once and lost to Auburn by a score that made Florida's last couple of SEC title apprearances look respectable.

We are all dying to be the first to break through. We all believe that if we are, we will have a stranglehold on the division for a while. I know as a Gator fan I feel that if we can win the division with the squads we've put on the field the last two years, imagine if we were worth a crud.

JMO.
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All that makes good sense
 
#69
#69
99gator said:
fans of the teams in the SEC East are all frustrated. Even of the bad teams. Missouri and Vandy fans might be the only ones not frustrated.

Georgia fans are frustrated by the fact that Florida and Tennessee have been as bad as they are going to be and the best Georgia has been able to do is make 2 SEC title games since 2010. They don't have squat to show for any of it. Not even a BCS bowl appearance.

Florida fans have been frustrated by the fact that if they had a QB as good as Uncle Rico since Tim Tebow left campus, who knows how many more games they could have won or how big the gap would be today between them and the rest of the division.

Tennessee fans are frustrated because while other schools in the division have been bad, they've been worse. No division titles. One win against a Florida team that struggles to cross midfield since 2009. Multiple losses to Vandy. etc.

Kentucky and South Carolina fans are frustrated because they know this is the best it's ever going to look and they still aren't worth a damn. Kentucky has one win total against Florida and Tennessee in the last several years and they are fortunate to have that one. South Carolina, for all its improvement under Steve Spurrier, won the division once and lost to Auburn by a score that made Florida's last couple of SEC title apprearances look respectable.

We are all dying to be the first to break through. We all believe that if we are, we will have a stranglehold on the division for a while. I know as a Gator fan I feel that if we can win the division with the squads we've put on the field the last two years, imagine if we were worth a crud.

JMO.
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UT, UF and UGA have been fumbling the SECE around like a hot potato these past few years. It's like nobody really wants it enough to hold onto it. We've even tossed it over to Mizzou a few times.

Just out of curiosity-- do you think any of the three have the breakthrough coach in place?
 
#71
#71
LA Vol said:
UT, UF and UGA have been fumbling the SECE around like a hot potato these past few years. It's like nobody really wants it enough to hold onto it. We've even tossed it over to Mizzou a few times.

Just out of curiosity-- do you think any of the three have the breakthrough coach in place?
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I don't know if they have a breakthrough guy in terms of a dude who is going to get to Atlanta and hold the big trophy.

My gut says that if Mac finds a QB this season and Florida gets an offense, the level of recruiting will change and Florida will start looking like the team I will want them to look like and be the odds on favorite most seasons to make it to Atlanta. If not, it will stay as it has been until he's fired.

If Eason develops into the all-everything he's been hyped to be, then I can see Georgia building momentum from that and being the team to beat in the East every year.

Honest to God, I don't have any faith in Butch. I can see him having a year here or there where Tennessee is the front runner and the team to beat. But, I don't see a scenario where he cranks out teams that year after year are the obvious choice to win the division.

JMO.
 
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#72
#72
99gator said:
I don't know if they have a breakthrough guy in terms of a dude who is going to get to Atlanta and hold the big trophy.

My gut says that if Mac finds a QB this season and Florida gets an offense, the level of recruiting will change and Florida will start looking like the team I will want them to look like and be the odds on favorite most seasons to make it to Atlanta. If not, it will stay as it has been until he's fired.

If Eason develops into the all-everything he's been hyped to be, then I can see Georgia building momentum from that and being the team to beat in the East every year.

Honest to God, I don't have any faith in Butch. I can see him having a year here or there where Tennessee is the front runner and the team to beat. But, I don't see a scenario where he cranks out teams that year after year are the obvious choice to win the division.

JMO.
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Not sure there's faith in anything right now except each year these teams do something that keeps them out of ATL vs doing anything to get them there.

That's been the only consistency in the east.
 
#73
#73
99gator said:
I don't know if they have a breakthrough guy in terms of a dude who is going to get to Atlanta and hold the big trophy.

My gut says that if Mac finds a QB this season and Florida gets an offense, the level of recruiting will change and Florida will start looking like the team I will want them to look like and be the odds on favorite most seasons to make it to Atlanta. If not, it will stay as it has been until he's fired.

If Eason develops into the all-everything he's been hyped to be, then I can see Georgia building momentum from that and being the team to beat in the East every year.

Honest to God, I don't have any faith in Butch. I can see him having a year here or there where Tennessee is the front runner and the team to beat. But, I don't see a scenario where he cranks out teams that year after year are the obvious choice to win the division.

JMO.
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Thanks for the feedback. I always find it interesting to get the perspective of other fanbases. Some SECE team is gonna challenge Saban sometime-- and you gotta figure one of the usual suspects will finally get the guy to do it. Maybe that guy's already in place-- but I'm not really seeing it, at least not yet.
 
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