Over Signing and the attrition that follows.

#77
#77
I will say that I really don't care about any of this except the hypocrisy. When Alabama and Saban do it, it's wrong.

Well, clearly, the Saban model is in full effect at Tennessee.

Again, not a big deal. Just can't whine about what other schools are doing anymore.
 
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#78
#78
LebanonVolunteer said:
Some figures posted by LWS in the FF. Seems relevant here.
e):

2014

UK- 0, 0%
LSU- 0, 0%
VU- 0, 0%
Bama- 1, 4%
Aub- 1, 4%
UF- 1, 4%
UM- 1, 4%
TAM- 1, 5%
Ark- 2, 8%
MU- 3, 11%
MSU- 3, 13%
UGA- 4, 19%
USCe- 5, 24%
UT- 8, 25%



2013


LSU- 2, 8%
Aub- 2, 9%
Bama- 4, 16%
UK- 3, 13%
VU- 4, 15%
Ark- 4, 17%
UF- 5, 17%
MU- 4, 20%
UGA- 9, 27%
MSU- 5, 24%
USCe- 6, 29%
TAM- 10, 31%
UM- 9, 33%
UT- 8, 35%

Total players lost over the past two years:

Bama- 5
Ark-6
Aub- 3
UF- 6
UGA- 13
UK- 3
LSU- 2
UM- 10
MSU- 8
MU- 7
USCe- 11
UT- 16
TAM- 11
VU- 4
Click to expand...

That study had the 10 year attrition rates for all SEC teams. No team was below 35% and UT's was about 41%. That included Kiffin's class which was at 79%.
 
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#79
#79
LebanonVolunteer said:
Some figures posted by LWS in the FF. Seems relevant here.
e):

2014

UK- 0, 0%
LSU- 0, 0%
VU- 0, 0%
Bama- 1, 4%
Aub- 1, 4%
UF- 1, 4%
UM- 1, 4%
TAM- 1, 5%
Ark- 2, 8%
MU- 3, 11%
MSU- 3, 13%
UGA- 4, 19%
USCe- 5, 24%
UT- 8, 25%



2013


LSU- 2, 8%
Aub- 2, 9%
Bama- 4, 16%
UK- 3, 13%
VU- 4, 15%
Ark- 4, 17%
UF- 5, 17%
MU- 4, 20%
UGA- 9, 27%
MSU- 5, 24%
USCe- 6, 29%
TAM- 10, 31%
UM- 9, 33%
UT- 8, 35%

Total players lost over the past two years:

Bama- 5
Ark-6
Aub- 3
UF- 6
UGA- 13
UK- 3
LSU- 2
UM- 10
MSU- 8
MU- 7
USCe- 11
UT- 16
TAM- 11
VU- 4
Click to expand...

I went back to the study and looked at the first 3 years that Saban was at Bama. They lost 40 players during that time period. It is obvious Saban was clearing the roster and establishing his culture. It looks like this is what is happening for us.
 
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#81
#81
wtorange said:
That study had the 10 year attrition rates for all SEC teams. No team was below 35% and UT's was about 41%. That included Kiffin's class which was at 79%.
Click to expand...

What coaches did attrition wise before Butch got to UT doesn't really factor in Imo to today and Butch's over signing techniques. That's why I used the numbers for the last 2 years. Also other SEC numbers for the last 2 years.

I see folks continue to say "everyone does it".

AU, VU, AR, UK all had coaching changes as well. All those schools combined lost the same 16 UT did by itself.

Obviously not everyone I suppose.
 
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#82
#82
Some people choose to own and operate the corner store. Others choose to rob and burglarize it. They are both OK because others do it too.
 
#83
#83
LebanonVolunteer said:
What coaches did attrition wise before Butch got to UT doesn't really factor in Imo to today and Butch's over signing techniques. That's why I used the numbers for the last 2 years. Also other SEC numbers for the last 2 years.

I see folks continue to say "everyone does it".

AU, VU, AR, UK all had coaching changes as well. All those schools combined lost the same 16 UT did by itself.

Obviously not everyone I suppose.
Click to expand...

Do you really think VU and UK are trying to flip their rosters to get to an SEC Championship? They are both happy with competitive. Auburn brought back their OC from just a year or two prior and they always recruited at a high level. Arkansas under Petrino had very good talent so maybe the roster didn't need the massive overhaul that our roster needed, but it is clearly your best argument.
 
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#84
#84
UTMark said:
Do you really think VU and UK are trying to flip their rosters to get to an SEC Championship? They are both happy with competitive. Auburn brought back their OC from just a year or two prior and they always recruited at a high level. Arkansas under Petrino had very good talent so maybe the roster didn't need the massive overhaul that our roster needed, but it is clearly your best argument.
Click to expand...

I'm not spinning it. You are.
 
#85
#85
UTMark said:
Do you really think VU and UK are trying to flip their rosters to get to an SEC Championship? They are both happy with competitive. Auburn brought back their OC from just a year or two prior and they always recruited at a high level. Arkansas under Petrino had very good talent so maybe the roster didn't need the massive overhaul that our roster needed, but it is clearly your best argument.
Click to expand...

This.

As usual, he is just framing the argument to fit his agenda.
 
#87
#87
99gator said:
I will say that I really don't care about any of this except the hypocrisy. When Alabama and Saban do it, it's wrong.

Well, clearly, the Saban model is in full effect at Tennessee.

Again, not a big deal. Just can't whine about what other schools are doing anymore.
Click to expand...
Word
 
#91
#91
LebanonVolunteer said:
I think it's a blast. Its all in the approach you take to it imo.
Click to expand...

Unlike you, some of us are inherently positive people who choose to assume the best about people and situations until it becomes clear the best doesn't apply. The whole reason I hang out in the RF is avoid the constant barrage of negative people in the FF. Sadly, the RF is no longer a safe place either. Well done.
 
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#92
#92
SSVol said:
Unlike you, some of us are inherently positive people who choose to assume the best about people and situations until it becomes clear the best doesn't apply. The whole reason I hang out in the RF is avoid the constant barrage of negative people in the FF. Sadly, the RF is no longer a safe place either. Well done.
Click to expand...

I'm a very positive person away from VN. On VN there are a lot of positives I speak out about. There are also negatives. Its just the negatives get more responses than the positives. When I say something positive, I'm just "in the group". When something I have an opinion on is views as negative, it seems to be a much larger talking point for the board. I just roll with it. I take the approach of say what ya wanna say and don't really care what others think about it. By doing that, I find it very enjoyable.
 
#93
#93
I'm not as smart as some of the experts on VN but for some reason I would think we need to have a certain amount of attrition to avoid having 15-20 over the 85 limit. If we did sign 25 each year we want to keep about 21 of the very best of them (that means we lose about 4 each class). But if we sign 25-30 each year we need to have a higher attrition rate to avoid having too many, so more have to find another place to go.
Am I missing something or is all this too difficult for the average person to understand?
 
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#94
#94
OldVol49vfl said:
I'm not as smart as some of the experts on VN but for some reason I would think we need to have a certain amount of attrition to avoid having 15-20 over the 85 limit. If we did sign 25 each year we want to keep about 21 of the very best of them (that means we lose about 4 each class). But if we sign 25-30 each year we need to have a higher attrition rate to avoid having too many, so more have to find another place to go.
Am I missing something or is all this too difficult for the average person to understand?
Click to expand...

Attrition is a given and normal to a degree. Leading the conference year after year, not so much. I'm honestly hoping the UT coaches don't have the mindset some fans do(no time to develop Signee's, if they are not starting as a SO, dump em quick). The blueprint thus far IMO doesn't look good. We'll see how it plays out over the next couple years. Butch has signed about 80 kids in 3 classes. Now he is blue shirting forward to the next class so he can take more. Maybe it works. Maybe it blows up in their faces.
 
#96
#96
LebanonVolunteer said:
What coaches did attrition wise before Butch got to UT doesn't really factor in Imo to today and Butch's over signing techniques. That's why I used the numbers for the last 2 years. Also other SEC numbers for the last 2 years.

I see folks continue to say "everyone does it".

AU, VU, AR, UK all had coaching changes as well. All those schools combined lost the same 16 UT did by itself.

Obviously not everyone I suppose.
Click to expand...

Any comment on the attrition rate I posted on Saban's first three years at Bama?
 
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#97
#97
OldVol49vfl said:
I'm not as smart as some of the experts on VN but for some reason I would think we need to have a certain amount of attrition to avoid having 15-20 over the 85 limit. If we did sign 25 each year we want to keep about 21 of the very best of them (that means we lose about 4 each class). But if we sign 25-30 each year we need to have a higher attrition rate to avoid having too many, so more have to find another place to go.
Am I missing something or is all this too difficult for the average person to understand?
Click to expand...

With your simplistic reasoning you are missing the grand conspiracy of Butch, who is pursuing a devious recruiting methodology in the football program akin to nothing seen in CFB before. A real Dr. Doom type thing. NCAA waiting on the doorstep to pound him into submission, with parents everywhere hiding their young men when he comes to town. :)
 
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#98
#98
I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory, but have any of you ever seen Leb and Barbara Dooley in the same place?
 
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#99
#99
LebanonVolunteer said:
I'm a very positive person away from VN. On VN there are a lot of positives I speak out about. There are also negatives. Its just the negatives get more responses than the positives. When I say something positive, I'm just "in the group". When something I have an opinion on is views as negative, it seems to be a much larger talking point for the board. I just roll with it. I take the approach of say what ya wanna say and don't really care what others think about it. By doing that, I find it very enjoyable.
Click to expand...

Thanks for such an enlightened rationalization. It is nice to hear you admit to throwing criticism into the forum just to get noticed.

I don't think we'll be hanging out outside of the forum do I guess I'm going to miss out on mister positivity and have to settle for Crotchety McJudgement.
 
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