Over Signing and the attrition that follows.

#101
#101
Oversigning is one of the best things a new coach can do!

And we should continue to oversign. Football scholarships are not guaranted. You have to earn them each year. So if you don't work hard, you don't take care of business off the field, you get in legal trouble, or you're simply not as good as we thought you were.....

Then you need to move on.
 
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#103
#103
Guyute said:
Thanks for such an enlightened rationalization. It is nice to hear you admit to throwing criticism into the forum just to get noticed.

I don't think we'll be hanging out outside of the forum do I guess I'm going to miss out on mister positivity and have to settle for Crotchety McJudgement.
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I don't do it to get noticed. I just don't worry about what others might say before I give my opinion. I've never sat back and thought, "will I get enough likes by posting this"? LOL.
 
#105
#105
Methinks you do it to spread your misery to others.
It doesnt work. Positive people stay positive.
Negative people stay negative.
I bet you could find something wrong with authentic Gumbo, crusty french bread, a glass of good red wine, and bourbon bread custard on Fat Tuesday.........
 
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#106
#106
vol81 said:
Methinks you do it to spread your misery to others.
It doesnt work. Positive people stay positive.
Negative people stay negative.
I bet you could find something wrong with authentic Gumbo, crusty french bread, a glass of good red wine, and bourbon bread custard on Fat Tuesday.........
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Of course I could. I don't drink.
 
#107
#107
vol81 said:
Methinks you do it to spread your misery to others.
It doesnt work. Positive people stay positive.
Negative people stay negative.
I bet you could find something wrong with authentic Gumbo, crusty french bread, a glass of good red wine, and bourbon bread custard on Fat Tuesday.........
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Too many ingredients on the menu. Next meal is likely a bust. IMO.
 
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#110
#110
UTMark said:
But if I'm going to model how I do things, it'll be those that are successful, like Saban. You want to model us after Vandy, Kentucky and Arkansas.
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No, just pointing out most other programs don't do what Bama/Saban did.

The whole argument of "everyone does it" was BS. As usual.

Taking 3 QBs a class, "everyone does it". But they don't.

It does make for quality entertainment though.

LOL
 
#111
#111
LebanonVolunteer said:
No, just pointing out most other programs don't do what Bama/Saban did.

The whole argument of "everyone does it" was BS. As usual.

Taking 3 QBs a class, "everyone does it". But they don't.

It does make for quality entertainment though.

LOL
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You of all people should appreciate Butch not doing what "everyone else does".

The ideal numbers are 21 players per classification. By that, I expect more kids from last years class to go. Same with the '15 class. In a couple of years, we will have a more balanced classes across the board.

It'll be your nirvana.
 
#112
#112
UTMark said:
You of all people should appreciate Butch not doing what "everyone else does".

The ideal numbers are 21 players per classification. By that, I expect more kids from last years class to go. Same with the '15 class. In a couple of years, we will have a more balanced classes across the board.

It'll be your nirvana.
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Those schools look to be more focused on developing their talent vs having a closeout sale of their roster. Much more in line with my mindset and how I would do things. I expect the attrition to continue at an alarming rate. The number today is around 12 when you figure in the BSs. VQ says Butch will take around 23.

Imo, a lot of these kids probably shouldn't even unpack once arriving on campus. LOL
 
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#113
#113
LebanonVolunteer said:
Those schools look to be more focused on developing their talent vs having a closeout sale of their roster. Much more in line with my mindset and how I would do things. I expect the attrition to continue at an alarming rate. The number today is around 15. Butch took 27 plus 3 that have to go to next year.

Imo, a lot of these kids probably shouldn't even unpack once arriving on campus. LOL
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Truth is that the schools you chose may have chosen to develop their players but the on field results are not good.
 
#114
#114
You can't NOT recruit talented kids for fear of losing other talented recruits. LWS post about attrition shows that if you sign one elite guy at each spot and then fill out the rest of the class with 3 star depth, then you are recruiting scared. It's more of a gamble to place all your chips on a few elite guys that may or may not stick after signing day than to worry about scaring them off before signing day b/c your brining in more competition. Butch Jones apparently does not recruit scared and UT fans are not used to that. Most of us like to see it, some like Leb apparently can't handle it.
 
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#115
#115
In short, attrition is going to happen regardless that's why you over recruit. If you want to win, that is.
 
#116
#116
LebanonVolunteer said:
I'd rather see them signing a reasonable class numbers wise, develop them, and benefit from having JR & SR heavy classes.
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I'm sorry, but the term "oversigning" doesn't even make sense. We had, what 68 scholarship athletes in CBJs first year? You propose we keep the numbers low and have no depth for 3-4 years to meet some arbirtary standard of not "oversigning?" That doesn't even make sense. Let's define some terms. When we do, you realize quickly that this simply isn't a problem.

Great sophomores are better than not having athletes at all, and that was the alternative. CBJ couldn't go recruit a senior class. He recruited the kids he could recruit (HS seniors), and hopefully, got the best players to help win.
 
#117
#117
MrVolton said:
You can't NOT recruit talented kids for fear of losing other talented recruits. LWS post about attrition shows that if you sign one elite guy at each spot and then fill out the rest of the class with 3 star depth, then you are recruiting scared. It's more of a gamble to place all your chips on a few elite guys that may or may not stick after signing day than to worry about scaring them off before signing day b/c your brining in more competition. Butch Jones apparently does not recruit scared and UT fans are not used to that. Most of us like to see it, some like Leb apparently can't handle it.
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I can handle it. Its not like I'm going to stop being a Vol fan because I think the coach makes some questionable moves. I was a Vol before Butch showed up and I'll be a Vol long after he is gone.

Its nothing to do with recruiting scared. I'd have my top 5-10 guys on the board at each position and I'd fill needs based off that. Imo I wouldn't need to offer 300 kids to get 20-25. I'd take commitments and fill up based off the board. If I take a commitment from the #4 and #8RBs on my board in March and I plan on taking 2(I've told them this in an effort to gain their commitments), if the RB I have at #2 on the board wants to commit in Sept do I drop one of the commitments? Of course not. I stick with the guys who took those spots. I show a little integrity and say the position is full.

I wouldn't tell a QB he is "my guy" to get him to commit and tell him he's the only 1 I'm taking then try to sneak in another. If you can't stand by your word, it's useless. In time, people will realize this and things go downhill from there. Yes, even in business.
 
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#118
#118
Vols4us said:
With your simplistic reasoning you are missing the grand conspiracy of Butch, who is pursuing a devious recruiting methodology in the football program akin to nothing seen in CFB before. A real Dr. Doom type thing. NCAA waiting on the doorstep to pound him into submission, with parents everywhere hiding their young men when he comes to town. :)
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I think I see where you're coming from. People like me needs to understand that recruiting is a terrible business. It is a totally evil task. We have people on VN that truly know how it should be done but we could never get UT's coaches to listen to these genius football recruiting experts. Maybe we can get Dave Hart to fahr everyone over there and put these experts to work.
If we can get that done we'll be able to compete with Mason and his Dores.
:crazy:
 
#120
#120
vol81 said:
Maybe you should start......could help take a little of your edge off! Might make you a little more rounded around the edges......
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Nah. Never saw drinking as a benefit at all. Way too many negatives tied to it for a positive person like me to deal with. TIFWIW
 
#122
#122
LebanonVolunteer said:
I can handle it. Its not like I'm going to stop being a Vol fan because I think the coach makes some questionable moves. I was a Vol before Butch showed up and I'll be a Vol long after he is gone.

Its nothing to do with recruiting scared. I'd have my top 5-10 guys on the board at each position and I'd fill needs based off that. Imo I wouldn't need to offer 300 kids to get 20-25. I'd take commitments and fill up based off the board. If I take a commitment from the #4 and #8RBs on my board in March and I plan on taking 2(I've told them this in an effort to gain their commitments), if the RB I have at #2 on the board wants to commit in Sept do I drop one of the commitments? Of course not. I stick with the guys who took those spots. I show a little integrity and say the position is full.

I wouldn't tell a QB he is "my guy" to get him to commit and tell him he's the only 1 I'm taking then try to sneak in another. If you can't stand by your word, it's useless. In time, people will realize this and things go downhill from there. Yes, even in business.
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In a perfect world where every recruit stays off the weed and in class and lives up to their potential and doesn't flip on signing day, that's great. But that's not the real world. You recruit like that and go up against Urban Meyer and Nick Saban with the #5 and #8 guys from your big board at each position, then you're bringing a knife to a gun fight.

With all due respect to Fulmer, I honestly think he tried to recruit the way you are talking about. That's also why I think the game passed him to an extent after guys like Meyer and Saban came to town. Recruiting that way will get you about an 8 win ceiling in the SEC. Now you may be satisfied with that, but the way Butch Jones is recruiting, he apparently is not.
 
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#125
#125
buffaloblue said:
Outside of Hendrix who have we lost that we won't end up with a better replacement for?
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Tough to say for sure at this point.

Hendrix, Phillips and Butcher could be upgrades.

Is Oliver a sure upgrade over Helm? Is Eli Wolf? I'd say no.

Was Scott looking at being #3/4 this year? Was Paulk #3/4? Most would consider Kamara #2 at worst no matter who stayed. If your looking at rankings(all you can do at this point), Kelly and Young are rated lower than Scott and Paulk were.

Wharton? They added Bruce and Perry and both count toward 2016. Sure upgrades? Time will tell. *s say no.

Henderson, Taylor is an upgrade imo.

Sawyers, All 3 in 2015 could be upgrades.

Payne, Martin is an upgrade. Miller and Abernathy? Probably.

Jmo
 
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