Openly Gay Conservative has a message for America

#101
#101
SuperDave said:
Was the gay jesus too much for you loving people??

BTW.. I don't see the problem with jesus being gay.
Click to expand...

Even Bart Ehrman would disagree with what you said and that is saying something. Something tells me that you do not know as much as you think you do about the christian faith.
 
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#102
#102
SuperDave said:
I've actually read the bible and studied it.. all of it.
As a kid and teenager.. yeah I believed.. even into my 20's but then I took the bible's advice.

1 Corinthians 13:11
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
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So let me make sure I understand your point correctly. You're making the argument that you understand the Bible... based on the fact that you read it as a child... and then use a quote from the Bible that states the knowledge and comprehension and ability to reason as children is "lacking".

Solid argument counselor. :thumbsup:
 
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#103
#103
Weezer said:
Okay, so what's the solution to dealing with Muslims? I'm not sure what people are advocating? Genocide? Deportation? Isolation? What?

And jmo, you don't perform charitable acts simply because you're Christian. That's like trying to buy your way into Heaven. Charitable acts come from the heart and are done out of love. Faith should not matter.
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Genocide seems to be the solution of choice on here, judging by the likes it gets.
 
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#104
#104
samanderson said:
I would take it, but I don't know how to set it up. I wish Freak would fix it up for me like he did that Avi for joe. I guess I don't have the clout joe does. And so, I sit here and sadly weep. That's okay. I heard somewhere even Jesus wept once, and he is my role model even though I'm not a Christian.
Click to expand...

I get paid to even post on here😁
 
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#107
#107
SuperDave said:
Why would many go hungry?? and why is that true??
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He already said why, and it's true. Try and read it again. Maybe you can figure it out, instead of attacking everybody and cursing at people who think your statements lack basic sense.
 
#108
#108
UTCVol said:
Genocide seems to be the solution of choice on here, judging by the likes it gets.
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You're the only one to respond, thus far. Why do others avoid the question? I think it legitimate. If all Muslims are the perceived problem, what is the solution?
 
#109
#109
Weezer said:
Okay, so what's the solution to dealing with Muslims? I'm not sure what people are advocating? Genocide? Deportation? Isolation? What?

And jmo, you don't perform charitable acts simply because you're Christian. That's like trying to buy your way into Heaven. Charitable acts come from the heart and are done out of love. Faith should not matter.
Click to expand...

*warning, not for the tl;dr crowd*

IMO, it will just take time to see them "return" to normal. a couple hundred years, see below for a firmer answer. their religion, if seen as a society, is still in its violent phase even as it approaches middle age. it hasn't reached the age of settling down and taking care of the kids.

Violence begets violence. Its not a hereditary thing that you can just wipe out, its an idea. you can't get rid of the idea. its on the internet, its got followers and physical objects all over the world. all it would take is for someone to find the information on there on to restart it. Change it? they are already killing themselves over differences in faith, changing it for some won't cut it, thats just more violence. Ignore it, go into turtle mode? not an option as long as the world economy is like it is. We can't ignore NK and its a fly speck of a country with like 25 million people, how do you ignore billions? especially we they are already inside your border. you can't kill or get rid of all them in your own country, see the above. How about we Obama it, and call it everything but what it is? frankly thats insulting to the victims and creates more tension within society as a whole. and it does nothing to address the problem, and that tension will lead to a lot of "vigilantism" as people eventually deal with the problem as they see fit when those in power do nothing. or you can continue to go after tangents (guns/hate/rich people) but it won't solve the issue and you are just creating a worse world. Get rid of God/god/religion all together. see all the problems listed above. multiply that by the world and good luck with that, and even then people will just fill that whole with another "god", whether religious or not and you haven't fixed a thing.

so what am I saying? It will take time, while we deal with it as best we can, yes violence; but not genocide and not broad gestures (occupy all of the ME). We call it what it is, deal with the results as it is, and guide them down a path which hopefully leads to more peaceful relations. Its whats happened with every major religion. each has gone through times of extreme violence and violence never ended it while ignoring it, not addressing/helping it lead to others getting wiped out instead.

Christianity was formed circa year 30. nice round number anyway. religious persecutions and wars started almost from the beginning and got a big boost with the crusades. crusades lasted from 1095 to 1291/to much later 1400s. For some reason 1000 years after the religion was formed we got violent with a basis on the faith being the reason. you could even say that continued as the mainstream cause for war up until about the 1700s. In europe at least and it has leveled off and dropped off pretty well since then. we still have notable exceptions. and we haven't seen the end of Christianity based violence yet; but mainstream Christianity is pretty non violent now. Christianity is fairly wide spread and many many different flavors of faith, meaning that one Christians experience is going to be widely different than another's. so any targeted violence is hard to focus or maintain.

Judaism was pretty darn violent for a long time. Old testament is filled with some horrible stuff. and even into Roman times, Jewish based violence (violence based on their faith) was still very common. eventually they settled down, or was worn down enough, to where they are pretty much just defensive in nature. It took them thousands of years to get to this point. They were very concentrated though, all Jews essentially went through the same issues meaning hate/peace. and even their religion doesn't have the chasms like Christianity does.


Islam started in 610 and was immediately faced with Christianity as an enemy. kinda impossible to say who started it. The Moors in spain and france, invasion(s) of italy and the islands, or Christians and Jews being pretty darn violent to them as they were first growing. at this point it doesn't matter. If you take the Christianity timeline and apply it to the Islamic faith and levels of violence we have another couple hundred years (600+1700=2300) before things start leveling out. with another couple hundred before its a thing of the past. the reason I use the Christian time frame is because as a people Muslims are more spread out and there divisions with Islam are a little more firm than they are Judaism.

Greeks/Romans/Egyptians/Chinese/Indians all went through similar problems. Egyptians and Romans had pretty good ideas of incorporating and allowing the other religions. but eventually each was supplanted by another faith. China/India and Greece all fought tons of wars over religion and never settled anything until outsiders stronger than them came in and made them stop fighting (or gave them a common target). Heck China replaced their gods with a government eventually, and that didn't solve their religious problems, but thats leading to a whole bunch of issues that is off topic.

Waiting isn't really an answer but its reality. Waiting in this case isn't passive or just reactionary. If we want to see this fixed we have to accept that its going to take a long time and things are going to change. If you don't want things to change on you don't expect others to only change themselves, or don't expect them to change how you want. We, everyone including the Muslims, are going to have to gradually make changes. and if we want to see this turn out the way we want we have to address it, have real conversations and goals and actually work with the people we have a problem with.

We as Americans have to figure out ourselves what we want before we can institute those changes elsewhere. Are we going to change, or only expect the world to change that we want with no effort on our part? We have to be willing to pay that price, we have to be willing to change while protecting what makes us unique. and that same talk has to happen with all other parties; and right now no one is moving. everyone is standing their ground and yelling at each other. no one is taking the responsibility of making the first move. if we want things to change, we have to change. To take from Bruce Almighty, Be the change you want to see, be the miracle. I think that means that the US has to change its laws, but not the Constitution, it means we have to look at is internal peace (relatively) worth not being a world power, where is the balance. Do we help our friends who are in a worse place than us, or do we cast off everything to just take care of ourselves, knowing that in the new world we are creating we are leaving ourselves in the dust. as always it should be a middle ground, but we need a leader who can make it happen and we clearly don't have a leader.
 
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#110
#110
Look, I am a Christian, but I'm not afraid to admit Christian charity is overrated. How much of this charity goes to the church itself? There, the money is used for upkeep and improvement, not to mention salaries of church staff. Maybe leftover money is used to fund a church pantry for those in need, but not always. And as for missionary trips, let's not ignore the ulterior motive. One of the key components of missionary trips is spreading the word of God. They go there to spread Christianity as much as they do to help the needy.

Most philanthropic groups do not claim a religious affiliation, so to say Christians are the most giving is a bit self-serving.
 
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#111
#111
LouderVol said:
*warning, not for the tl;dr crowd*

IMO, it will just take time to see them "return" to normal. a couple hundred years, see below for a firmer answer. their religion, if seen as a society, is still in its violent phase even as it approaches middle age. it hasn't reached the age of settling down and taking care of the kids.

Violence begets violence. Its not a hereditary thing that you can just wipe out, its an idea. you can't get rid of the idea. its on the internet, its got followers and physical objects all over the world. all it would take is for someone to find the information on there on to restart it. Change it? they are already killing themselves over differences in faith, changing it for some won't cut it, thats just more violence. Ignore it, go into turtle mode? not an option as long as the world economy is like it is. We can't ignore NK and its a fly speck of a country with like 25 million people, how do you ignore billions? especially we they are already inside your border. you can't kill or get rid of all them in your own country, see the above. How about we Obama it, and call it everything but what it is? frankly thats insulting to the victims and creates more tension within society as a whole. and it does nothing to address the problem, and that tension will lead to a lot of "vigilantism" as people eventually deal with the problem as they see fit when those in power do nothing. or you can continue to go after tangents (guns/hate/rich people) but it won't solve the issue and you are just creating a worse world. Get rid of God/god/religion all together. see all the problems listed above. multiply that by the world and good luck with that, and even then people will just fill that whole with another "god", whether religious or not and you haven't fixed a thing.

so what am I saying? It will take time, while we deal with it as best we can, yes violence; but not genocide and not broad gestures (occupy all of the ME). We call it what it is, deal with the results as it is, and guide them down a path which hopefully leads to more peaceful relations. Its whats happened with every major religion. each has gone through times of extreme violence and violence never ended it while ignoring it, not addressing/helping it lead to others getting wiped out instead.

Christianity was formed circa year 30. nice round number anyway. religious persecutions and wars started almost from the beginning and got a big boost with the crusades. crusades lasted from 1095 to 1291/to much later 1400s. For some reason 1000 years after the religion was formed we got violent with a basis on the faith being the reason. you could even say that continued as the mainstream cause for war up until about the 1700s. In europe at least and it has leveled off and dropped off pretty well since then. we still have notable exceptions. and we haven't seen the end of Christianity based violence yet; but mainstream Christianity is pretty non violent now. Christianity is fairly wide spread and many many different flavors of faith, meaning that one Christians experience is going to be widely different than another's. so any targeted violence is hard to focus or maintain.

Judaism was pretty darn violent for a long time. Old testament is filled with some horrible stuff. and even into Roman times, Jewish based violence (violence based on their faith) was still very common. eventually they settled down, or was worn down enough, to where they are pretty much just defensive in nature. It took them thousands of years to get to this point. They were very concentrated though, all Jews essentially went through the same issues meaning hate/peace. and even their religion doesn't have the chasms like Christianity does.


Islam started in 610 and was immediately faced with Christianity as an enemy. kinda impossible to say who started it. The Moors in spain and france, invasion(s) of italy and the islands, or Christians and Jews being pretty darn violent to them as they were first growing. at this point it doesn't matter. If you take the Christianity timeline and apply it to the Islamic faith and levels of violence we have another couple hundred years (600+1700=2300) before things start leveling out. with another couple hundred before its a thing of the past. the reason I use the Christian time frame is because as a people Muslims are more spread out and there divisions with Islam are a little more firm than they are Judaism.

Greeks/Romans/Egyptians/Chinese/Indians all went through similar problems. Egyptians and Romans had pretty good ideas of incorporating and allowing the other religions. but eventually each was supplanted by another faith. China/India and Greece all fought tons of wars over religion and never settled anything until outsiders stronger than them came in and made them stop fighting (or gave them a common target). Heck China replaced their gods with a government eventually, and that didn't solve their religious problems, but thats leading to a whole bunch of issues that is off topic.

Waiting isn't really an answer but its reality. Waiting in this case isn't passive or just reactionary. If we want to see this fixed we have to accept that its going to take a long time and things are going to change. If you don't want things to change on you don't expect others to only change themselves, or don't expect them to change how you want. We, everyone including the Muslims, are going to have to gradually make changes. and if we want to see this turn out the way we want we have to address it, have real conversations and goals and actually work with the people we have a problem with.

We as Americans have to figure out ourselves what we want before we can institute those changes elsewhere. Are we going to change, or only expect the world to change that we want with no effort on our part? We have to be willing to pay that price, we have to be willing to change while protecting what makes us unique. and that same talk has to happen with all other parties; and right now no one is moving. everyone is standing their ground and yelling at each other. no one is taking the responsibility of making the first move. if we want things to change, we have to change. To take from Bruce Almighty, Be the change you want to see, be the miracle. I think that means that the US has to change its laws, but not the Constitution, it means we have to look at is internal peace (relatively) worth not being a world power, where is the balance. Do we help our friends who are in a worse place than us, or do we cast off everything to just take care of ourselves, knowing that in the new world we are creating we are leaving ourselves in the dust. as always it should be a middle ground, but we need a leader who can make it happen and we clearly don't have a leader.
Click to expand...

Bruce Almighty stole that from Gandhi. Gandhi was Hindu.
 
#112
#112
Weezer said:
Look, I am a Christian, but I'm not afraid to admit Christian charity is overrated. How much of this charity goes to the church itself? There, the money is used for upkeep and improvement, not to mention salaries of church staff. Maybe leftover money is used to fund a church pantry for those in need, but not always. And as for missionary trips, let's not ignore the ulterior motive. One of the key components of missionary trips is spreading the word of God. They go there to spread Christianity as much as they do to help the needy.

Most philanthropic groups do not claim a religious affiliation, so to say Christians are the most giving is a bit self-serving.
Click to expand...


Overrated? What is it rated?
 
#115
#115
Weezer said:
Okay, so what's the solution to dealing with Muslims? I'm not sure what people are advocating? Genocide? Deportation? Isolation? What?

And jmo, you don't perform charitable acts simply because you're Christian. That's like trying to buy your way into Heaven. Charitable acts come from the heart and are done out of love. Faith should not matter.
Click to expand...

The only solution will be genocide or deportation if the western Muslims and liberals continue to halt any discussion of the ideology with claims of xenophobia or "Islamophobia".

Sam Harris has some decent points on this topic.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auAWT0TNcfg[/youtube]
 
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#118
#118
IBlvNTmWrk said:
So let me make sure I understand your point correctly. You're making the argument that you understand the Bible... based on the fact that you read it as a child... and then use a quote from the Bible that states the knowledge and comprehension and ability to reason as children is "lacking".

Solid argument counselor. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

yep.. when I was a child I did childish things... church, religion, bible.. when I got into my 20's and actually read the bible and studied it and understood what it was saying... I put away those childish things.
 
#119
#119
Obsessed said:
I don't know if you have figured it out yet, we ignore what you post.

You are a dumbass.
Click to expand...

why.. cause I don't believe in talking snakes
and 4 headed monsters
and a boat with every animal on the planet in it
and people rising from the dead
and god impregnating his mom with himself so he can sacrifice himself to save you from the things he will do to you if you don't accept him
and on and on and on...

oh yeah.. don't forget all the evil things god has done in the bible.

yeah.. looks like I'm the dumb one in this scenario.
 
#121
#121
SuperDave said:
why.. cause I don't believe in talking snakes
and 4 headed monsters
and a boat with every animal on the planet in it
and people rising from the dead
and god impregnating his mom with himself so he can sacrifice himself to save you from the things he will do to you if you don't accept him
and on and on and on...

oh yeah.. don't forget all the evil things god has done in the bible.

yeah.. looks like I'm the dumb one in this scenario.
Click to expand...

It really has nothing to do with whether you believe it or not, it's that you're no better than the Westboro Baptist idiots screaming at people that they're going to hell.
 
#122
#122
VolsSportsFan said:
It really has nothing to do with whether you believe it or not, it's that you're no better than the Westboro Baptist idiots screaming at people that they're going to hell.
Click to expand...

That has everything to do with it... I'm not part of the cult anymore. Christians can't handle their religion being unraveled for what it really is... but to be fair none of the religions can.
 
#124
#124
SuperDave said:
That has everything to do with it... I'm not part of the cult anymore. Christians can't handle their religion being unraveled for what it really is... but to be fair none of the religions can.
Click to expand...

I want partly to be upset at the way you make fun of us, but I'm just gonna say I'm sorry that you hate us and God so much. I don't know why, but I don't believe you just read the bible one day and woke up hating Christians. Whatever the true reason I honestly pray that you'll see that though there are hypocrites (there are in every way of life), we're not all trying to trick people. When we say we care, it's because we do. When we try to tell you God loves you, it's because we truly believe that. I'm not being smart or funny, just really sorry you have those feelings for us.
 
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#125
#125
SuperDave said:
That has everything to do with it... I'm not part of the cult anymore. Christians can't handle their religion being unraveled for what it really is... but to be fair none of the religions can.
Click to expand...

I read stuff all the time and think "seriously... I'm supposed to buy that literally?". It's those times when I try to pull back for the 40,000 foot view rather than get hung up on the details of suspending my disbelief. That also keeps me from going fundamentalist on someone else for having a different interpretation of something or my religion being "unraveled".

It would be easy to dismiss your POV as just some anonymous guy being a jerk on the Internet, but the fact is, I can't really blame you. To be so widespread, a lot of us really suck at focusing on what matters instead of condemning people that don't totally agree with us.
 
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