Oliviyah Edwards requesting out

[VolTenn25]

I don’t think it’s fair to speculate on what went into anyone’s decision, and certainly unfair to make out one person’s decision as good and noble, and the other as somehow less honorable. Really wish we wouldn’t go down the heroes and villains rabbit hole.

Hasn’t this board been specualting the hero (the players) & villain (CKC) for most of this post season? Lol. All this board does is speculate. Maybe we need a new system. Not new people on the board. Seems to always be the answer on here.

 

[glv98]

Hasn’t this board been specualting the hero (the players) & villain (CKC) for most of this post season? Lol. All this board does is speculate. Maybe we need a new system. Not new people on the board. Seems to always be the answer on here.

Mileage can vary, but I’d say in postseason the villain role has tipped heavily toward everyone who left. But who’s up and who’s down doesn’t really matter at this point, all of it has done incredible damage. The unfortunate evidence of that is who’s visited and most of all who’s chosen not to visit or even give a thought in the LV direction during this portal season. We’re apparently no longer in play for any remotely elite players. Thats the lasting damage from all of it.

 

[volsagain]

You may be correct. But what we do know as factual is, that whatever the situation was, it was bad enough to lose every player on the roster, and the highest rated incoming recruit (#2 overall) since Jordan Horston.

Yes and it lead to everything I said above. Also as I stated above if it was all on the head coach I believe DW would have made a change there. So many people think he would fire her because of his ego but he's all about making money for the University and that's his goal. One more year to save 2 million would probably have been made up from a new coach with a bright future. I don't like everything she does with the system or at least the subbing patterns but I've seen how her offenses movements with prior teams and this past team did very little at times.

 

[VolTenn25]

Mileage can vary, but I’d say in postseason the villain role has tipped heavily toward everyone who left. But who’s up and who’s down doesn’t really matter at this point, all of it has done incredible damage. The unfortunate evidence of that is who’s visited and most of all who’s chosen not to visit or even give a thought in the LV direction during this portal season. We’re apparently no longer in play for any remotely elite players. Thats the lasting damage from all of it.

Again we had plenty of allegedly elite players last year & they couldn’t hit a layup, a free throw or figure out how to not foul. It’s not about getting elite players. Kim stated when she first took the job that just because you’re the number 1 player that maybe you don’t fit what we are trying to do so maybe the number 50 player does fit. I think last season, with our incoming freshman (aside from Jaida & Mia) Kim fell into the very trope she knew she couldn’t. Trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole with the portal pickups & the freshman. It stands to reason she may have leaned a bit too much on Gabe for his “sec” knowledge & while he went & recruited some of the “best” players out there, he didn’t recruit the best ones for this particular system. None of those kids had the mental fortitude to withstand any adversity. They weren’t ready, they need to develop that trait. We need to go after the kids that know what it takes to get thru adversity & that have good attitudes & understand that bad body language will kill a teams mindset. We need leaders on the court. We had exactly 0 this year. Jewel, Tess, & Sam were the leaders for the sweet 16 team yr one. & no one thought they’d make it that far. If any can remember… & this is an honest question what were those kids rankings coming out of high school, were any of them top 10, top 20 recruits? (Last years S 16 team)

 

[RetroVol]

I've seen how her offenses movements with prior teams and this past team did very little at times.

And she hired Bill Ferrara: "I am pleased to welcome Bill to our staff," Caldwell said. "He has played an instrumental role in Florida State's high-scoring offense and three-point shooting over the past four seasons. We look forward to adding his technical knowledge, experience and recruiting abilities to our program."

 

[glv98]

Again we had plenty of allegedly elite players last year & they couldn’t hit a layup, a free throw or figure out how to not foul. It’s not about getting elite players. Kim stated when she first took the job that just because you’re the number 1 player that maybe you don’t fit what we are trying to do so maybe the number 50 player does fit. I think last season, with our incoming freshman (aside from Jaida & Mia) Kim fell into the very trope she knew she couldn’t. Trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole with the portal pickups & the freshman. It stands to reason she may have leaned a bit too much on Gabe for his “sec” knowledge & while he went & recruited some of the “best” players out there, he didn’t recruit the best ones for this particular system. None of those kids had the mental fortitude to withstand any adversity. They weren’t ready, they need to develop that trait. We need to go after the kids that know what it takes to get thru adversity & that have good attitudes & understand that bad body language will kill a teams mindset. We need leaders on the court. We had exactly 0 this year. Jewel, Tess, & Sam were the leaders for the sweet 16 team yr one. & no one thought they’d make it that far. If any can remember… & this is an honest question what were those kids rankings coming out of high school, were any of them top 10, top 20 recruits? (Last years S 16 team)

Certainly, this is the narrative, heart and hustle over talent, that you have to believe to think the LVs are going to have any kind of success next year. You have to believe that the back court traps will not lead to multiple wide open layups just because the less athletic, less talented players have more want to. Effort over everything! You also have to believe that the two things, heart and hustle and actual talent cannot coexist.

I just don’t happen to believe those things, and deep down I don’t think many people actually do either. The best teams are the ones who are able to combine those two vital elements and many successfully do. At this level, effort and endurance alone will never be a separator.

It’s interesting about Jewel Tess and Sam (and Sara). I suspect all were middish recruits, though Sam had an outstanding first year at Arkansas. It was actually recruiting at that level that was the beginning of the end for Kellie. They were always good enough for an upper SEC finish and a sweet 16, but back then, that was not good enough, thus the reason Kellie was fired.

Two years later, the new regime, brought in to move it all forward, has crashed the program so thoroughly that even middish recruits are not interested. So the hazy, unrealistic prospect of a sweet 16 in the near future has folks talking about a COY for the very coach that sent us back this far. Instead of any progress, bar dragged depressingly low.

 

[VolTenn25]

Certainly, this is the narrative, heart and hustle over talent, that you have to believe to think the LVs are going to have any kind of success next year. You have to believe that the back court traps will not lead to multiple wide open layups just because the less athletic, less talented players have more want to. Effort over everything! You also have to believe that the two things, heart and hustle and actual talent cannot coexist.

I just don’t happen to believe those things, and deep down I don’t think many people actually do either. The best teams are the ones who are able to combine those two vital elements and many successfully do. At this level, effort and endurance alone will never be a separator.

It’s interesting about Jewel Tess and Sam (and Sara). I suspect all were middish recruits, though Sam had an outstanding first year at Arkansas. It was actually recruiting at this level that was the beginning of the end for Kellie. They were always good enough for an upper SEC finish and a sweet 16, but back then, that was not good enough, thus the reason Kellie was fired.

Two years later, the new regime, brought in to move it all forward, has crashed the program so thoroughly that even middish recruits are not interested. So the hazy, unrealistic prospect of a sweet 16 in the near future has folks talking about a COY for the very coach that sent us back this far. Instead of any progress, bar dragged depressingly low.

Once again, it’s yr 2. & for all this years flaws it’s still a team that made it into the tournament. “Worst season in program history” still made it into the tournament. When you seemingly mock heart over talent, that’s actually kinda low. All of these kids in D1 have some level of talent or they wouldn’t have gotten a scholarship. So let’s squash that right now. Do some possess more talent than others? Absolutely. But when you get a roster full of egos… Often not good things come of that. You have to find a balance of talent and heart. Energy and effort are two things that should never have to be coached, I can’t count the number of coaches that I have heard say this. Defense should always travel it rarely got on the bus this year. Our problem this year was that when things weren’t going our way, when we weren’t hitting shots, when we were fouling constantly (warranted whistle or not), we pouted, we had attitudes and we look like we quit. When we played like we were supposed to and were disruptive and played together, we played with the good teams. (TX & Vandy, KY) we played for exactly one half against ucla, SC, UConn & came out & gave up the rest of the game & got our asses kicked. We had too many games where only one player would show up. You can’t have that. We had too many times where they just threw the ball up from 3, knowing we weren’t a great 3 pt shooting team. & then they had no interest in getting the rebound. (That’s lack of effort & heart guys!) That’s not what they were instructed to do. We know this from post game pressers.

 

[glv98]

Once again, it’s yr 2. & for all this years flaws it’s still a team that made it into the tournament. “Worst season in program history” still made it into the tournament. When you seemingly mock heart over talent, that’s actually kinda low. All of these kids in D1 have some level of talent or they wouldn’t have gotten a scholarship. So let’s squash that right now. Do some possess more talent than others? Absolutely. But when you get a roster full of egos… Often not good things come of that. You have to find a balance of talent and heart. Energy and effort are two things that should never have to be coached, I can’t count the number of coaches that I have heard say this. Defense should always travel it rarely got on the bus this year. Our problem this year was that when things weren’t going our way, when we weren’t hitting shots, when we were fouling constantly (warranted whistle or not), we pouted, we had attitudes and we look like we quit. When we played like we were supposed to and were disruptive and played together, we played with the good teams. (TX & Vandy, KY) we played for exactly one half against ucla, SC, UConn & came out & gave up the rest of the game & got our asses kicked. We had too many games where only one player would show up. You can’t have that. We had too many times where they just thru the ball up from 3, knowing we weren’t a great 3 pt shooting team. & then they had no interest in getting the rebound. (That’s lack of effort & heart guys!) That’s not what they were instructed to do. We know this from post game pressers.

No sense in continuing to argue the heart versus talent balance. Everyone’s entitled to their own view on that. And everything will be proven one way or the other next season.

Also, no matter what they argue everyone knows it takes a healthy chunk of both heart and talent, especially in this league. Can’t come up short on either

 

[volsagain]

Again we had plenty of allegedly elite players last year & they couldn’t hit a layup, a free throw or figure out how to not foul. It’s not about getting elite players. Kim stated when she first took the job that just because you’re the number 1 player that maybe you don’t fit what we are trying to do so maybe the number 50 player does fit. I think last season, with our incoming freshman (aside from Jaida & Mia) Kim fell into the very trope she knew she couldn’t. Trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole with the portal pickups & the freshman. It stands to reason she may have leaned a bit too much on Gabe for his “sec” knowledge & while he went & recruited some of the “best” players out there, he didn’t recruit the best ones for this particular system. None of those kids had the mental fortitude to withstand any adversity. They weren’t ready, they need to develop that trait. We need to go after the kids that know what it takes to get thru adversity & that have good attitudes & understand that bad body language will kill a teams mindset. We need leaders on the court. We had exactly 0 this year. Jewel, Tess, & Sam were the leaders for the sweet 16 team yr one. & no one thought they’d make it that far. If any can remember… & this is an honest question what were those kids rankings coming out of high school, were any of them top 10, top 20 recruits? (Last years S 16 team)

Doesn't matter how talented you are if you don't put your best effort forward. This poor dead horse has been beaten to dust . The ones that doesn't understand coaches very well can't see the difference in performance and being in the right place at the right time. Silly things like being able to outrun a pass to the other end is just plain silly. Players not doing there jobs and hustling is what causes so many layups and they don't have to run through a wall.

 

[glv98]

Doesn't matter how talented you are if you don't put your best effort forward. This poor dead horse has been beaten to dust . The ones that doesn't understand coaches very well can't see the difference in performance and being in the right place at the right time. Silly things like being able to outrun a pass to the other end is just plain silly. Players not doing there jobs and hustling is what causes so many layups and they don't have to run through a wall.

Wait, did you just say it’s silly to think players cannot outrun a passed ball from end to end? Could you do that? Are you familiar with physics?

 

[VolTenn25]

Wait, did you just say it’s silly to think players cannot outrun a passed ball from end to end? Could you do that? Are you familiar with physics?

Maybe they’re saying if they do their job correctly & make their rotations when they’re supposed to those easy layups would be less?

 

[glv98]

Maybe they’re saying if they do their job correctly & make their rotations when they’re supposed to those easy layups would be less?

lol that’s a kind interpretation of what that poster actually said. And I think it’s representative of what a lot of those hammering the previous players as lazy actually think. not sure the trope that they’re just not smart enough is any better.

There are no rotations at this level that consistently cover the gamble of the trap. The resulting “failure rate”also known as the easy layups, is one of the main reasons coaches quit using this system at this level30 years ago.

 

[VolTenn25]

lol that’s a kind interpretation of what that poster actually said. And I think it’s representative of what a lot of those hammering the previous players as lazy actually think.

To be fair, if the coach says they didn’t make their rotations or need to improve on their rotations, I’m not so sure that isn’t the appropriate conclusion: lazy, uncoachable, unwilling. Any of those could apply (not saying they do because we don’t know, but from the outside looking in, it would appear that way)

 

[hayyou]

To be fair, if the coach says they didn’t make their rotations or need to improve on their rotations, I’m not so sure that isn’t the appropriate conclusion: lazy, uncoachable, unwilling. Any of those could apply (not saying they do because we don’t know, but from the outside looking in, it would appear that way)

If you watched any games you do know.

 

[1reVOLver]

To be fair, if the coach says they didn’t make their rotations or need to improve on their rotations, I’m not so sure that isn’t the appropriate conclusion: lazy, uncoachable, unwilling. Any of those could apply (not saying they do because we don’t know, but from the outside looking in, it would appear that way)

While what you say, “lazy, uncoachable, unwilling” is plausible some of the time, it overlooks superior performance by competitors. So much of the discussion of both the pros and cons of the System ignores the obvious: there is another team on the court, and sometimes that team is more talented, better coached, or both. That doesn’t make failure to execute on the part of the System players a function of moral inadequacy.

 

[lvocd]

All I know is I am going to be disgusted and angry if I read or hear any griping and sniping about these new Lady Vols being lazy or not listening to the coach or not caring enough if they, too, have difficulty stopping opponents from getting open layups if they’ve effectively bypassed the initial press.

These players are being hand-picked to suit the system in skill, determination, unselfishness and coachability, and so I hope and pray they are wildly successful. If some of the same holes in the system do show themselves again even with this team being built specifically to prove it works, then everyone will definitely have their answer.

Praise the heck out of the players AND the coach if we see their smiling faces winning games in the NCAAT next season. Heck yeah! But please, for the love of God, just don’t blame the players if that doesn’t happen.

 

[madtownvol]

lol that’s a kind interpretation of what that poster actually said. And I think it’s representative of what a lot of those hammering the previous players as lazy actually think. not sure the trope that they’re just not smart enough is any better.

There are no rotations at this level that consistently cover the gamble of the trap. The resulting “failure rate”also known as the easy layups, is one of the main reasons coaches quit using this system at this level30 years ago.

So all the system requires is players who can run faster than a long pass (to an open player) ! Easy peazy!

 

[glv98]

So all the system requires is players who can run faster than a long pass (to an open player) ! Easy peazy!

and yet this thought process won the day. Which is exactly why we are where we are.

 

[NOLACHUCKEYTOM]

Wonder how Pat was able to use the 1-2-1-1 so well for many years and did not give up easy layups. I guess she was just lucky.




Pat Summitt used the 1-2-1-1 press for 38 years during her coaching career at the University of Tennessee, from 1974 to 2012. This defensive strategy was a key part of her coaching style.
Wikipedia FOX Sports

Duration of the 1-2-1-1 Press Usage​

Pat Summitt employed the 1-2-1-1 press throughout her entire coaching career at the University of Tennessee.

 

[volsagain]

Wait, did you just say it’s silly to think players cannot outrun a passed ball from end to end? Could you do that? Are you familiar with physics?

It's silly to think that's the concept of the press. Players not doing there assignments and hustling is what leads to open layups. Wakeup it's not always on the coaches , lack of knowledge can twist things the wrong way.

 

[glv98]

Wonder how Pat was able to use the 1-2-1-1 so well for many years and did not give up easy layups. I guess she was just lucky.




Pat Summitt used the 1-2-1-1 press for 38 years during her coaching career at the University of Tennessee, from 1974 to 2012. This defensive strategy was a key part of her coaching style.
Wikipedia FOX Sports

Duration of the 1-2-1-1 Press Usage​

Pat Summitt employed the 1-2-1-1 press throughout her entire coaching career at the University of Tennessee.

The answer is Pat had far superior talent when she usef it

Also, she didn’t use it her whole career. Unfortunately Geno exposed the mismatches tragically beginning in the early 2000. Also, at that time, talent of ball handling and coaching got much better. As a result, Pat publicly said she needed a new system and to her great credit went out and looked for one. Always love pressure D, but didnt stake her whole strategy on it

 

[NOLACHUCKEYTOM]

The answer is Pat had far superior talent when she usef it

Also, she didn’t use it her whole career. Unfortunately Geno exposed the mismatches tragically beginning in the early 2000. Also, at that time, talent of ball handling and coaching got much better. As a result, Pat publicly said she needed a new system and to her great credit went out and looked for one. Always love pressure D, but didnt stake her whole strategy on it

Where did she say she needed a new defensive system?? Evidence, quotes, etc.?? I readily remember her saying she needed a new offense and searching for the correct one but I never saw her say she needed a new defense.

 

[1reVOLver]

So all the system requires is players who can run faster than a long pass (to an open player) !

 

[madtownvol]

Wonder how Pat was able to use the 1-2-1-1 so well for many years and did not give up easy layups. I guess she was just lucky.




Pat Summitt used the 1-2-1-1 press for 38 years during her coaching career at the University of Tennessee, from 1974 to 2012. This defensive strategy was a key part of her coaching style.
Wikipedia FOX Sports

Duration of the 1-2-1-1 Press Usage​

Pat Summitt employed the 1-2-1-1 press throughout her entire coaching career at the University of Tennessee.

This goes the other way too. During title # 7, the LVs met high pressing Rutgers in the FF and Shannon Bobbitt destroyed them.

 

[Puppeteer]

Haha, good luck Vic Schaefer trying to win with potentially 4 top 25 recruits (including # 2 or 3) on his roster. What a recipe for disaster!!!!!!

Honest question here...why would you say that? Last year uconn had Bueckers, Fudd and Strong with a few others not far behind and they won it all. I think it comes down to chemistry, buy-in (no super stars) and coaching. Your thoughts? Again, honest question...just curious why you think that. I mean look at ucla this year...5 in the first round!