Off Topic: Super Bowl LI Thread

#501
#501
If Brady was the reason the Pats have dominated for 15 years, he'd have more than 2 NFL MVPs.
Simple.

When PManning didn't play great, his teams usually lost.
 
#502
#502
WiseOlVol said:
If Brady was the reason the Pats have dominated for 15 years, he'd have more than 2 NFL MVPs.
Simple.

When PManning didn't play great, his teams usually lost.
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Peyton was my favorite player all-time, is one of the greatest players and qbs of all-time and because of the argument/discussion about who's better, him or Brady, I've despised Brady for years......but after all this time, after 5 SuperBowl game-winning drives in his team's 5 SuperBowl wins, after all the post season records he now owns and the outstanding regular seasons he's accumulated, I just don't see how anyone can argue against Brady being the best NFL qb ever. I've finally come to terms with it because it's just the truth.
 
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#504
#504
VolsSportsFan said:
I think this is way overblown.

For one, it's happened all of 1 time, and people point to the 11-5 record, yet that team didn't make the playoffs. If Brady is the QB that year, they're a playoff team. Secondly let's not act like Cassel was a pure bum. Sure he sucks now, but he went and started for KC for 4 seasons, led them to the playoffs and made a Pro Bowl. People point to the 2-14 year Manning wasn't with the Colts, yeah, none of those QBs were worth a damn.

The Pats missed Brady for 4 games this year, went 3-1. Garoppolo looked good but it was 2 games. Brissett looked pretty terrible the next 2 weeks and it's not like they played murderer's row those 4 games.

Time will tell if the Pats keep winning. I won't be surprised but if he doesn't win any SBs after Brady retires, but I won't be that surprised if he doesn't either.
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I understand why you would want to dismiss it, but in 2009, with Brady back at QB following his injury season, the Pats won FEWER games than they did with Cassell at QB the year before. And Cassell was a joke as an NFL QB. He may have gotten by for a few years, but he's not good enough to excuse winning more games than Brady in back-to-back seasons. You can draw your own conclusions, but facts are facts.

And I haven't even begun to talk heads-up statistical comparisons between Brady and Manning -- or between Brady and Brees, for that matter. Brees has eclipsed all of Brady's individual QB stats in a shorter career and Brady will have to play at least 3 more seasons to have a hope of breaking Peyton's records. Now I'm talking about individual stats that address ONLY the QB position -- NOT TEAM stats like wins and championships. I readily admit that Brady has played on the better teams.
 
#505
#505
WiseOlVol said:
If Brady was the reason the Pats have dominated for 15 years, he'd have more than 2 NFL MVPs.
Simple.

When PManning didn't play great, his teams usually lost.
Click to expand...

I hate having this argument because it's not about dissing Manning, Montana or any other great.

But, What Brady has done and is still doing is beyond compare.

He's not a guy who is still playing and along for the ride. He's 39 and still the best in the business.
 
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#506
#506
Hacksaw said:
I understand why you would want to dismiss it, but in 2009, with Brady back at QB following his injury season, the Pats won FEWER games than they did with Cassell at QB the year before. And Cassell was a joke as an NFL QB. He may have gotten by for a few years, but he's not good enough to excuse winning more games than Brady in back-to-back seasons. You can draw your own conclusions, but facts are facts.

And I haven't even begun to talk heads-up statistical comparisons between Brady and Manning -- or between Brady and Brees, for that matter. Brees has eclipsed all of Brady's individual QB stats in a shorter career and Brady will have to play at least 3 more seasons to have a hope of breaking Peyton's records. Now I'm talking about individual stats that address ONLY the QB position -- NOT TEAM stats like wins and championships. I readily admit that Brady has played on the better teams.
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Not even in the same galaxy of a joke the QBs the Colts trotted out in 2011.

And yes, the next year they won a whole 1 game less than the year before.....and made the playoffs. That's not a conclusion, that's a fact.
 
#507
#507
....Manning did win SBs with 2 different teams.

I've always imagined how many SB rings Manning would have had if Belichek were his coach. Would he have enough fingers?
 
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#511
#511
So that's 2 Super Bowls in 3 years that the Patriots lost, then had handed to them by inept offensive coordinators/coaches. The Seahawks throwing the goal line slant inside instead of running Marshawn Lynch 4 times for 1 yard. Even Brady had given up on the sidelines that time. Then last night, Atlanta has only to run up the middle 3 times and kick a FG to make it a 2 score game with 3 minutes left and no NE timeouts (they would have had to use them up). Instead they bumble their way back to 4th and 33 and set up the Pats perfectly.
 
#512
#512
LordBolton said:
So that's 2 Super Bowls in 3 years that the Patriots lost, then had handed to them by inept offensive coordinators/coaches. The Seahawks throwing the goal line slant inside instead of running Marshawn Lynch 4 times for 1 yard. Even Brady had given up on the sidelines that time. Then last night, Atlanta has only to run up the middle 3 times and kick a FG to make it a 2 score game with 3 minutes left and no NE timeouts (they would have had to use them up). Instead they bumble their way back to 4th and 33 and set up the Pats perfectly.
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So, in summary Brady has won 5 super bowls?
 
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#513
#513
LordBolton said:
So that's 2 Super Bowls in 3 years that the Patriots lost, then had handed to them by inept offensive coordinators/coaches. The Seahawks throwing the goal line slant inside instead of running Marshawn Lynch 4 times for 1 yard. Even Brady had given up on the sidelines that time. Then last night, Atlanta has only to run up the middle 3 times and kick a FG to make it a 2 score game with 3 minutes left and no NE timeouts (they would have had to use them up). Instead they bumble their way back to 4th and 33 and set up the Pats perfectly.
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If and buts....the game is 60 minutes. They don't hand out championship trophies for playing great for 59 minutes.
 
#514
#514
volfannbama said:
Is this another one of those "If you think Brady is the best of all time you must also believe that Manning is the worst of all time" things?
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Haha, no. It's one of those "I can't believe the lengths some go to, just to prove thier point" and not seeing it.
 
#515
#515
WiseOlVol said:
NE SB Wins:
20-17 (Kicker wins game at buzzer)
32-29 (Kicker wins game at buzzer)
24-21 (Kicker makes at 8.40 Q4 for 10-point lead)
28-24 (DB saves game w goal line Int at buzzer after 2nd Brady pick)
28-28 (Illegal pick play on 2-point conversion for tie after Brady bad play dug huge hole)

NE Losses
14-17 (Brady posts 18-0 team to only 14 pts v 10-6 team)
17-21 (Brady posts 13-3 team to only 2 TDs v 9-7 team)

Commonalities:
Pats superior and favored in every game
Best HC since Lombardi
Best D in NFL over 2 decades
Poor-to-indifferent QB play in every game -- all 7 -- put NE in position to lose

Conclusions:
Brady has never had a great SB game (see Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Steve Young)
Not good in biggest games generally (1-3 v PManning in AFC Championship Games)
Has Lost 2 SBs (Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman undefeated with 4, 4, and 3)
The hypothetical GOAT would have taken NE's many assets and won SBs easily
You get no special prize for digging out of the hole your mistakes have made
Drama is not competence, just the opposite
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Holy Christ in heaven.
 
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#516
#516
WiseOlVol said:
NE SB Wins:
20-17 (Kicker wins game at buzzer)
32-29 (Kicker wins game at buzzer)
24-21 (Kicker makes at 8.40 Q4 for 10-point lead)
28-24 (DB saves game w goal line Int at buzzer after 2nd Brady pick)
28-28 (Illegal pick play on 2-point conversion for tie after Brady bad play dug huge hole)

NE Losses
14-17 (Brady posts 18-0 team to only 14 pts v 10-6 team)
17-21 (Brady posts 13-3 team to only 2 TDs v 9-7 team)

Commonalities:
Pats superior and favored in every game
Best HC since Lombardi
Best D in NFL over 2 decades
Poor-to-indifferent QB play in every game -- all 7 -- put NE in position to lose

Conclusions:
Brady has never had a great SB game (see Phil Simms, Doug Williams, Steve Young)
Not good in biggest games generally (1-3 v PManning in AFC Championship Games)
Has Lost 2 SBs (Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman undefeated with 4, 4, and 3)
The hypothetical GOAT would have taken NE's many assets and won SBs easily
You get no special prize for digging out of the hole your mistakes have made
Drama is not competence, just the opposite
Click to expand...

This post ranks up there with the most idiotic I have ever seen.
 
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#517
#517
LordBolton said:
So that's 2 Super Bowls in 3 years that the Patriots lost, then had handed to them by inept offensive coordinators/coaches. The Seahawks throwing the goal line slant inside instead of running Marshawn Lynch 4 times for 1 yard. Even Brady had given up on the sidelines that time. Then last night, Atlanta has only to run up the middle 3 times and kick a FG to make it a 2 score game with 3 minutes left and no NE timeouts (they would have had to use them up). Instead they bumble their way back to 4th and 33 and set up the Pats perfectly.
Click to expand...

And both times, in fact - make that all 5 times, Brady led a 4th quarter or overtime comeback drive to win the game. He has no control over the other teams offense. Keep reaching.
 
#519
#519
utvols74 said:
....Manning did win SBs with 2 different teams.

I've always imagined how many SB rings Manning would have had if Belichek were his coach. Would he have enough fingers?
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Gosh I love Peyton to the point of it being weird but he was terrible in those two Superbowl wins. I think we need to move on from these conversations. It just makes us look more delusional as a fanbase. :loco:
 
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#520
#520
AlumniChase said:
Gosh I love Peyton to the point of it being weird but he was terrible in those two Superbowl wins. I think we need to move on from these conversations. It just makes us look more delusional as a fanbase. :loco:
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But Peyton is our supreme leader.........:disappointed:
 
#521
#521
AlumniChase said:
Gosh I love Peyton to the point of it being weird but he was terrible in those two Superbowl wins. I think we need to move on from these conversations. It just makes us look more delusional as a fanbase. :loco:
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He wasn't terrible in either one imo, actually contributed to each win, just not to the level that a healthy Manning in his prime, playing at his best would have. He was the game MVP vs Chicago.

That said, you're spot on with your post. We need to move on.....Peyton is top 3 all-time imo, but with what Brady has now done, he's the GOAT.
 
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#522
#522
AlumniChase said:
Gosh I love Peyton to the point of it being weird but he was terrible in those two Superbowl wins. I think we need to move on from these conversations. It just makes us look more delusional as a fanbase. :loco:
Click to expand...

He wasn't terrible in either. The Bears win he was decent enough and won the MVP because really there wasn't anyone else to give it to. The Panthers win all he had to do was manage the game and he did. The Broncos defense won that Super Bowl.
 
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#525
#525
KBVol said:
He wasn't terrible in either one imo, actually contributed to each win, just not to the level that a healthy Manning in his prime, playing at his best would have. He was the game MVP vs Chicago.

That said, you're spot on with your post. We need to move on.....Peyton is top 3 all-time imo, but with what Brady has now done, he's the GOAT.
Click to expand...

As long as the Colts beat the Bears, Manning was getting the MVP for that game.

From a stat perspective, neither Manning win in the SB, are that impressive. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, he's in the conversation....
 
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