NIL $$$$.....a drop in the bucket??

[DeerPark12]

It really doesn't have anything to do with capitalism. Notre Dame doesn't belong to a conference. The two teams that make it to the championship game get twenty million dollars. The money is to be divided equally between all the teams in the conference they represent. Notre Dame got twenty million dollars and have to share it with??? No one. That's a big chunk of money going into their budget.

Or maybe schools should’ve negotiated a better deal for themselves, rather than having this split their revenues with fellow members of their conference. It cuts both ways. Why should Tennessee, Texas and Georgia have had to split those playoff revenues with the other 13 teams that didn’t make the playoff? I think that’s who needs to negotiate for a better deal.

If Notre Dame could get that deal for themselves, good for them. Perhaps nobody should be in a conference.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

True, but they already have the agreement with the ACC to play what, like 4 games a year?

Not sure when that expires, but sure-I'm down for the Domers to never see another P4 opponent after that.

Notre Dame is also an associate member of the Big 10 in hockey.

 

[UT97Vol]

It's that old age creeping in/

Unfortunately it would seem. lol

 

[bigorangepoppa]

Or maybe schools should’ve negotiated a better deal for themselves, rather than having this split their revenues with fellow members of their conference. It cuts both ways. Why should Tennessee, Texas and Georgia have had to split those playoff revenues with the other 13 teams that didn’t make the playoff? I think that’s who needs to negotiate for a better deal.

If Notre Dame could get that deal for themselves, good for them. Perhaps nobody should be in a conference.

I actually had that thought myself. Do away with conferences. Would be the only way to make it fair in the current format.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I actually had that thought myself. Do away with conferences. Would be the only way to make it fair in the current format.

That's not going to happen. Fairness is not the objective. Winning on the field, winning financially, and winning in public perception are the goals. The SEC and BIG 10 are not going to give up their competitive advantages to help their competitors out.

 

[DeerPark12]

That's not going to happen. Fairness is not the objective. Winning on the field, winning financially, and winning in public perception are the goals. The SEC and BIG 10 are not going to give up their competitive advantages to help their competitors out.

I would argue they already have by moving on from a 4-team playoff that those two conferences dominated to the current 12-team format that gives more teams and conferences a seat at the table, both perception wise and financially. If the SEC and B10 were only looking out for themselves, they would’ve voted against any move to a format larger than four.

Similarly, the four power conferences could have forced Notre Dame to join a conference as part of these negotiations. Instead, they all banded together to make it financially viable for Notre Dame to remain independent. You can think they need to join a conference all you want, but until the stakeholders at the other power four universities change their minds, they aren’t going to have to. Obviously, the leaders of those conferences see it as advantageous for everyone to keep the current arrangement, or at very least they see that they do not fall to a disadvantage to whatever conference adds Notre Dame.

If Notre Dame joins a conference before 2036, it has to be the ACC, per the terms of their scheduling arrangement. I don’t believe the other three conferences want to see that happen, so they enable the Irish‘s independence indefinitely.

 

[pimo1]

The issues with NIL and the reason there has to be a 'CAP' is not really about the Notre Dames of the world. Notre Dame's independence does not really give them any advantage if nothing else it puts them at a disadvantage.

If you told schools they could put as much money into NIL as they wanted...there would become a group of about 25 or so schools that are the end of the conversation. Certain markets are just too small to do much if the sky is the limit. You could tell UTM you can have as much money for NIL as you want.. they are never coming up with 10 mil much less 20. Places like Tuscaloosa are gonna be harder sells over time because of the market size. UNLV hopping into the top 25 for the first time EVER is not a fluke. SMU being on the rise is not a fluke. Indiana popping up with their first 10+ win season ever, not a fluke. NIL did that and all those 3 universities have something important. Large markets and access to a lot of money.

SMU, big market and there are people that have been waiting decades to resurrect SMU. UNLV huge market and people thirsty for some success in football and lots of money around. Indiana is an interesting situation they are kinda like UGA. They are not themselves in a big market (Athens, Bloomington) but they are on the edge of a HUGE market (Atlanta, Indianapolis), so can tap into that. Schools like Florida, FSU and Bama are going to be somewhat disadvantaged because they are in not-so-big markets and have legit instate competition. SMU fills the big college football vacuum in Dallas. Texas and Cali are kinda different in that they are big enough to support multiple high-end schools. Florida and Georgia also but to a much lesser extent. Anyone old enough will remember what happened the last time they let the money loose at SMU. Those guys took their money down south to College station since then.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

notre dame needs to be forced to join a conference because they don't have to share any money with anyone and thats ridiculous

Have said that for years.

 

[LWSVOL]

I dont know, so Im gonna ask.
It would be tough to get a real total number of how much is coming in!
Do private Universities, Vandy, ND, etc have to report anything??
How much of the areas below are reported, how much they brought it and where did it go?
Especially the Private Donations.........that has to be huge for some schools.
Does ALL this get divided by all Athletics at a University.........Baseball, Basketball??
And how doe Title IX play into all this??


View attachment 716719

this link might provide answers for you..

FY24 NCAA AUP (PDF) - University of Tennessee Athletics

FY24 NCAA AUP (PDF)

utsports.com

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

The issues with NIL and the reason there has to be a 'CAP' is not really about the Notre Dames of the world. Notre Dame's independence does not really give them any advantage if nothing else it puts them at a disadvantage.

If you told schools they could put as much money into NIL as they wanted...there would become a group of about 25 or so schools that are the end of the conversation. Certain markets are just too small to do much if the sky is the limit. You could tell UTM you can have as much money for NIL as you want.. they are never coming up with 10 mil much less 20. Places like Tuscaloosa are gonna be harder sells over time because of the market size. UNLV hopping into the top 25 for the first time EVER is not a fluke. SMU being on the rise is not a fluke. Indiana popping up with their first 10+ win season ever, not a fluke. NIL did that and all those 3 universities have something important. Large markets and access to a lot of money.

SMU, big market and there are people that have been waiting decades to resurrect SMU. UNLV huge market and people thirsty for some success in football and lots of money around. Indiana is an interesting situation they are kinda like UGA. They are not themselves in a big market (Athens, Bloomington) but they are on the edge of a HUGE market (Atlanta, Indianapolis), so can tap into that. Schools like Florida, FSU and Bama are going to be somewhat disadvantaged because they are in not-so-big markets and have legit instate competition. SMU fills the big college football vacuum in Dallas. Texas and Cali are kinda different in that they are big enough to support multiple high-end schools. Florida and Georgia also but to a much lesser extent. Anyone old enough will remember what happened the last time they let the money loose at SMU. Those guys took their money down south to College station since then.

NIL cannot legally be capped. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I would argue they already have by moving on from a 4-team playoff that those two conferences dominated to the current 12-team format that gives more teams and conferences a seat at the table, both perception wise and financially. If the SEC and B10 were only looking out for themselves, they would’ve voted against any move to a format larger than four.

Similarly, the four power conferences could have forced Notre Dame to join a conference as part of these negotiations. Instead, they all banded together to make it financially viable for Notre Dame to remain independent. You can think they need to join a conference all you want, but until the stakeholders at the other power four universities change their minds, they aren’t going to have to. Obviously, the leaders of those conferences see it as advantageous for everyone to keep the current arrangement, or at very least they see that they do not fall to a disadvantage to whatever conference adds Notre Dame.

If Notre Dame joins a conference before 2036, it has to be the ACC, per the terms of their scheduling arrangement. I don’t believe the other three conferences want to see that happen, so they enable the Irish‘s independence indefinitely.

Agree. The ACC had the chance to force ND to join as a permanent football member in 2020. They had the carrot and the stick. They only used the carrot, and Notre Dame turned their back on it in 2021.

The ACC should have refused to let ND join for just one year. ND basically would have had maybe 5 games that season. No double OT home thriller against Clemson, among other things.

In terms of attendence, TV money, and reputation, it would have been devastating for the Irish to not get a full schedule. The ACC had virtually all the leverage and wasted it after rearranging their entire FB schedule to accommodate the Irish that year.

Another stupid decision by the ACC let them off the hook. They can't seem to get out of their own way.

 

[Volnbeers]

The issues with NIL and the reason there has to be a 'CAP' is not really about the Notre Dames of the world. Notre Dame's independence does not really give them any advantage if nothing else it puts them at a disadvantage.

If you told schools they could put as much money into NIL as they wanted...there would become a group of about 25 or so schools that are the end of the conversation. Certain markets are just too small to do much if the sky is the limit. You could tell UTM you can have as much money for NIL as you want.. they are never coming up with 10 mil much less 20. Places like Tuscaloosa are gonna be harder sells over time because of the market size. UNLV hopping into the top 25 for the first time EVER is not a fluke. SMU being on the rise is not a fluke. Indiana popping up with their first 10+ win season ever, not a fluke. NIL did that and all those 3 universities have something important. Large markets and access to a lot of money.

SMU, big market and there are people that have been waiting decades to resurrect SMU. UNLV huge market and people thirsty for some success in football and lots of money around. Indiana is an interesting situation they are kinda like UGA. They are not themselves in a big market (Athens, Bloomington) but they are on the edge of a HUGE market (Atlanta, Indianapolis), so can tap into that. Schools like Florida, FSU and Bama are going to be somewhat disadvantaged because they are in not-so-big markets and have legit instate competition. SMU fills the big college football vacuum in Dallas. Texas and Cali are kinda different in that they are big enough to support multiple high-end schools. Florida and Georgia also but to a much lesser extent. Anyone old enough will remember what happened the last time they let the money loose at SMU. Those guys took their money down south to College station since then.

its not an issue of market size, its an issue of revenue sharing

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The issues with NIL and the reason there has to be a 'CAP' is not really about the Notre Dames of the world.

There's no legal way to cap NIL. Salaries, if the game goes pro, could be capped but there's no way for a league of any kind to cap NIL.

As long as teams want the athletes bad enough, they will make sure NIL deals are there to help entice athletes to sign, flip, or transfer.

Over and over and over again people say "NIL has to be capped" and every time the NCAA tries to regulate it schools like UT sue to make sure the transfer portal is wide open and NIL restrictions are essentially toothless.

If we want to win, we'll support the school. The school supports very very very few NIL restrictions and a very open transfer portal. GBO.

 

[Firebirdparts]

I guess (OP) all you can say is that there is a lot of money involved. The facilities required are onerously expensive. The cost of players has of course skyrocketed *but* for a few more months the schools are not paying them. NIL contracts are probably 99% fake, but nobody knows how to stop it. That's just how it is today.

We look at these publicly available totals where we can, but the school is usually lumping all sports together in that, and of course they can spend it. when you look at UT (in another thread) evidently revenue of [$230] million and they spent it all. Not on players.



Boosterism has been a thing forever due to people just wanting the kids to have some better uniforms or update the equipment they use. It's just always been a thing. Back in the olden days people were afraid to spend money, really. They were afraid of looking stupid for spending it. The boosters were the way around that. Those days are gone, I guess.

 

[pimo1]

NIL cannot legally be capped. Why is that so difficult to understand?

which is exactly why they are moving on from it.

 

[pimo1]

its not an issue of market size, its an issue of revenue sharing

Revenue sharing is a direct function of market size. If you have more revenue, you have more to share. If you are in a small market its hard to generate revenue because your sources are limited. I'll give an example.

Alabama. Stadium Size 100.077. Tuscaloosa Population 111.338. Metro Pop. 277494.

USC. Stadium size, 77,500, Los Angeles Pop 3.821 mil. LA metro 18.42 mil


Because of the differences in market size, it puts Alabama in a bad situation. If they piss off a significant percentage of their local fans their stadium is empty. No way around it. If some change loyalties they are boned. A few bad seasons and they are looking at half-full stadiums

For USC they could literally alienate millions of fans and not care. They could suck (as they have) for significant periods of time and still not care. Because there is always gonna be someone in line for those tickets. USC could literally piss off 5.1 million(population of the whole state of Alabama) people in their metro area so much they'd never go to another UCS game and not care because there's another 8-9 million they can sell tickets to. UCLA has sucked at almost all sports the last 2 decades for long stretches and they still can sell out games. Sharing the market with USC because the market is that big.

When you have a small market you can do well in good times. But, when it gets bad and folks start leaving you have no one to fill those seats. USC can have a terrible team and folks will still come to their games to meet all the celebs that have nothing to do with the sport being played.

LA is an extreme example of this. But it applies down the chain. There is a much better chance of there being a reason other than the game to go to one in say, Nashville than there would be in say Columbia, MO. If Vandy ever had a sustained run of being good they will quickly become a problem because of that. All the conferences on the West Coast spent the last year fighting over UNLV for that reason alone VEGAS.. They backed up the Brinks truck to UNLV to get them to join their conference BEFORE this season happened and what was the fallout? UNLV turns around and has their first appearance in the top 25 ever. UNLV has won more than 9 games twice. 11 this past season and 11 in 1984 (all those wins were vacated for the 83 and 84 seasons for playing ineligible players). SMU the only football team to get the death penalty is rising from the ashes because of NIL... they got the Death Penalty because they instituted NIL 50 years early. Now DFW has a college team to get behind again.

Market matters and you'll see it more and more over the next few years as all of a sudden teams you never really thought about pop up. Some to look out for are GA Tech and GA State. If either of those 2 pops off it will hurt UGA immensely because it will cut them off from all those homeless Atlanta fans. Atl is a very volatile market because the majority of the pop isn't even GA born. They are more likely to identify with a decent team around the corner than one almost 2 hours away. People at heart want to support their local team because its right there. It's just human nature. Imagine if the Vols never hired Danny White, Barnes, Vitello, Heupel, and UTC goes on a 10-year rampage where they win FCS 3-4 years go FBS and are all of a sudden a top 10 team. The next few generations become UTC fans instead of the Orange and white. Because Knoxville is not a big enough market to stay loyal to a bad team for decades places like Chicago, LA, and New York have a big enough pop that the die-hard fans can sustain you. There are more die-hard USC/UCLA fans in LA County than there are people in Knoxville, heck, probably the state of TN. Market share matters because math is undefeated.

 

[JustFunnN'Orange]

I would argue they already have by moving on from a 4-team playoff that those two conferences dominated to the current 12-team format that gives more teams and conferences a seat at the table, both perception wise and financially. If the SEC and B10 were only looking out for themselves, they would’ve voted against any move to a format larger than four.

Similarly, the four power conferences could have forced Notre Dame to join a conference as part of these negotiations. Instead, they all banded together to make it financially viable for Notre Dame to remain independent. You can think they need to join a conference all you want, but until the stakeholders at the other power four universities change their minds, they aren’t going to have to. Obviously, the leaders of

Excellent info Sir! I always look forward to your posts.

 

[Orangecrush#27]

Typically they play 5 ACC games per year.
They occasionally play a 6th.

Man notre Dame rlly took on a lot taking on 5 ACC teams ! They picked the third weakest conference and said.. yea that’ll do

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

which is exactly why they are moving on from it.

"They", who? Revenue sharing will not replace NIL

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Revenue sharing is a direct function of market size. If you have more revenue, you have more to share. If you are in a small market its hard to generate revenue because your sources are limited. I'll give an example.

Alabama. Stadium Size 100.077. Tuscaloosa Population 111.338. Metro Pop. 277494.

USC. Stadium size, 77,500, Los Angeles Pop 3.821 mil. LA metro 18.42 mil


Because of the differences in market size, it puts Alabama in a bad situation. If they piss off a significant percentage of their local fans their stadium is empty. No way around it. If some change loyalties they are boned. A few bad seasons and they are looking at half-full stadiums

For USC they could literally alienate millions of fans and not care. They could suck (as they have) for significant periods of time and still not care. Because there is always gonna be someone in line for those tickets. USC could literally piss off 5.1 million(population of the whole state of Alabama) people in their metro area so much they'd never go to another UCS game and not care because there's another 8-9 million they can sell tickets to. UCLA has sucked at almost all sports the last 2 decades for long stretches and they still can sell out games. Sharing the market with USC because the market is that big.

When you have a small market you can do well in good times. But, when it gets bad and folks start leaving you have no one to fill those seats. USC can have a terrible team and folks will still come to their games to meet all the celebs that have nothing to do with the sport being played.

LA is an extreme example of this. But it applies down the chain. There is a much better chance of there being a reason other than the game to go to one in say, Nashville than there would be in say Columbia, MO. If Vandy ever had a sustained run of being good they will quickly become a problem because of that. All the conferences on the West Coast spent the last year fighting over UNLV for that reason alone VEGAS.. They backed up the Brinks truck to UNLV to get them to join their conference BEFORE this season happened and what was the fallout? UNLV turns around and has their first appearance in the top 25 ever. UNLV has won more than 9 games twice. 11 this past season and 11 in 1984 (all those wins were vacated for the 83 and 84 seasons for playing ineligible players). SMU the only football team to get the death penalty is rising from the ashes because of NIL... they got the Death Penalty because they instituted NIL 50 years early. Now DFW has a college team to get behind again.

Market matters and you'll see it more and more over the next few years as all of a sudden teams you never really thought about pop up. Some to look out for are GA Tech and GA State. If either of those 2 pops off it will hurt UGA immensely because it will cut them off from all those homeless Atlanta fans. Atl is a very volatile market because the majority of the pop isn't even GA born. They are more likely to identify with a decent team around the corner than one almost 2 hours away. People at heart want to support their local team because its right there. It's just human nature. Imagine if the Vols never hired Danny White, Barnes, Vitello, Heupel, and UTC goes on a 10-year rampage where they win FCS 3-4 years go FBS and are all of a sudden a top 10 team. The next few generations become UTC fans instead of the Orange and white. Because Knoxville is not a big enough market to stay loyal to a bad team for decades places like Chicago, LA, and New York have a big enough pop that the die-hard fans can sustain you. There are more die-hard USC/UCLA fans in LA County than there are people in Knoxville, heck, probably the state of TN. Market share matters because math is undefeated.

Revenue sharing does have anything to do with local market size, because the revenue isn't coming from the local markets.

It's coming from the NCAA settlement in the House case, approximately $22 million for each FBS school. That's "if" the challenges to the House settlement don't get traction.

The problem with that settlement is the NCAA attempt to be control NIL. It's highly unlikely that clause in the settlement survives. They simply can't interfere with a private business deal between two other parties.

The House settlement also conflicts with the injunction in Tennessee vs NCAA and a bunch of laws in different states.

 

[Zues1]

ND has never been in a football conference.

Right

 

[Zues1]

I'm just laughing at ND. All that money, every game on National TV. Apparently it you're a Catholic ya gotta be a ND supporter.
Then they got kicked in the nads just like everyone else. Oh you almost had it
Lol

 

[pimo1]

Revenue sharing does have anything to do with local market size, because the revenue isn't coming from the local markets.

It's coming from the NCAA settlement in the House case, approximately $22 million for each FBS school. That's "if" the challenges to the House settlement don't get traction.

The problem with that settlement is the NCAA attempt to be control NIL. It's highly unlikely that clause in the settlement survives. They simply can't interfere with a private business deal between two other parties.

The House settlement also conflicts with the injunction in Tennessee vs NCAA and a bunch of laws in different states.

What does revenue come from?

 

[pimo1]

"They", who? Revenue sharing will not replace NIL

you might wanna check up on things. there are already schools disassociating themselves with their collectives. The whole Wisconsin vs the kid who want tied to transfer to Miami is tied into it.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

you might wanna check up on things. there are already schools disassociating themselves with their collectives. The whole Wisconsin vs the kid who want tied to transfer to Miami is tied into it.

INo need. I am very aware of the current situation. Only a few schools are doing that. They're trying to replace them with school sponsored NIL to tie contracts to the school. Incidentally, that's a violation of current NCAA rules.

If the House case settlement falls through, which is very possible, then the schools like Colorado that dropped their relationship with a private collective are stupid.

The Lucas Wisconsin situation isn't actually a private NIL issue. Wisconsin doesn't use private NIL. The Lucas situation involved university NIL, which is sketchy legally. It's not actually NIL. It's revenue sharing, which violates NCAA rules until at least July 1.

That issue is primarily a transfer portal issue. The NCAA admitted, in writing, that college athletes can disenroll at any time they wish, without entering the portal. They can then enroll in another school without penalty or NCAA interference. Lucas is suing Wisconsin for withholding his transcripts in retaliation for him leaving, based on an illegal contract that they made him sign.

That's basically extortion. It will be interesting to see if this adds a criminal case against the Wisky administration and AD in addition to the civil suit. Based on the legal climate, it s likely.