NCAA Addressing Fake Injuries

[savannahfan]

If a player goes down he must be in pain or injured.remove him from the game for a period of time. Simple fix.

As I have suggested and have (likely you) many others the answer is "sit out the remainder of the series". (be the offensive or defensive which ever applies) If a guy is bad enough hurt to "need help", then sitting a few plays will only be to his benefit.

 

[savannahfan]

Yup. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze. I’ve said this before, but you simply cannot have refs making judgement calls on injuries being real or fake, no matter how obvious it is.

Without looking up to see what the current rule is, one way to combat it is no interactions between coaches and players during the injury. Any interaction, the coach can use a timeout or take a yardage penalty. If a coach continues to do it, he is removed from the game. Players stay on the field during an injury and are only allowed to receive water during the break.

I’m sure there’s other methods you could employ to tackle the problem, but flags for faking injuries will never happen.

This needs attention for every situation during a game. Too much coaching at every letup in the action. If they can't "teach" their players how to deal with most situations that come up during play, then the players are just not smart enough to learn or the coach is not smart enough to teach.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

We need to let up in Kif. He is only one of almost every team using this ploy. (I have seen our players start limping off the field and the staff frantically motioning get down). As I recall a season or two ago we almost lost our collective minds watching App St. time and time again "flop" after sometimes 2 out of 3 plays. No, Kif was not the first to use this ploy, just the one that stings us the most. Just imagine what hell would still be continually raised if we had not so miraculously pulled out the win over App St.

Two different points to be made in response:

(a) a player who IS injured, but is limping toward the sideline, SHOULD go to the ground. Why? Because as long as he is moving on his own, he is liable to be called for a penalty, like too many players on the field. If he really is injured, he and his team are allowed protection from that kind of penalty. That's why a coach telling an injured player (a truly injured player) to get down is a totally different thing than uninjured players flopping for tactical advantage (to slow down the opposing offense, or get some subs).

(b) Kiffin is not the inventor of the flop, no. It has been around for decades and decades. But last season he took it to a disgusting new level of unsportsmanship. THAT is why he (rightfully) gets so much grief. He embraced it so blatantly, and so frequently, that he set himself apart from others who use the tactic in a lesser way.

 

[savannahfan]

Two different points to be made in response:

(a) a player who IS injured, but is limping toward the sideline, SHOULD go to the ground. Why? Because as long as he is moving on his own, he is liable to be called for a penalty, like too many players on the field. If he really is injured, he and his team are allowed protection from that kind of penalty. That's why a coach telling an injured player (a truly injured player) to get down is a totally different thing than uninjured players flopping for tactical advantage (to slow down the opposing offense, or get some subs).

(b) Kiffin is not the inventor of the flop, no. It has been around for decades and decades. But last season he took it to a disgusting new level of unsportsmanship. THAT is why he (rightfully) gets so much grief. He embraced it so blatantly, and so frequently, that he set himself apart from others who use the tactic in a lesser way.

Response to (a)
Limping, stumbling players have been around for as long as the game has been played and refs or officials can and have stopped play on their own. If a guy is limping off the field a ref can/could hold play much as they do to give time for subbing now.

Response to (b)
As I stated earlier, losing to any team (namely the App St game nearly happening) makes it worst. Had we beating Ole Miss, we would have still been complaining but not to this degree. The reason for this huge outcry is, so many UT fans just plain hate Kiffen. It does not make any difference what he or his teams do, many here bout just hate him and all he stands for.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Response to (a)
Limping, stumbling players have been around for as long as the game has been played and refs or officials can and have stopped play on their own. If a guy is limping off the field a ref can/could hold play much as they do to give time for subbing now.

Response to (b)
As I stated earlier, losing to any team (namely the App St game nearly happening) makes it worst. Had we beating Ole Miss, we would have still been complaining but not to this degree. The reason for this huge outcry is, so many UT fans just plain hate Kiffen. It does not make any difference what he or his teams do, many here bout just hate him and all he stands for.

(a) They can; but they often throw a flag instead. That's just reality.

(b) There are good and valid reasons for all the hate Kiffin gets. From far more than just the Tennessee fan base. Dude's an immature ass, and proves it repeatedly. The flop-a-thon was just another example of it.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

Also, if NCAA basketball can call a "flop"...one warning and then technical, then not sure why football can't do the same. At least would require OM defense players to take more acting classes.

Add another official in a tent maybe. Only job is during timeout for the injury is to quickly review the tape to see if the player looked to the sideline for the signal to go down or player goes down and grabs the left knee but when the staff get there they work on the wrong leg and yes I saw both of those happen last season. If spotted. Tent official calls the 15yrd penalty.

People will argue that players won't go even if hurt because they don't want to risk causing the team a penalty of having to sit out extra plays...

TN also needs to have plays ready to go in those fake injury plays also. Wanna play fast up tempo but also need to be able to play the slow game

 

[TheVolsFrog]

Why would you fake an injury on a failed 3rd down attempt when the offense is likely to punt the ball on 4th down anyway? If the offense is going for it, well then your defense is losing a key player on a crucial down and if the offense converts, that player isn't available for the remainder of that series.

Lots of teams go for it on 4th down now,
Also as for the sitting out X amount of plays. If the number is 4 plays that the player would normally be on the field, simple, make it 4 plays he has to sit out, doesn't matter if the possesion changes, when his team comes back he has to wait until his 4 plays out is over.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Lots of teams go for it on 4th down now,
Also as for the sitting out X amount of plays. If the number is 4 plays that the player would normally be on the field, simple, make it 4 plays he has to sit out, doesn't matter if the possesion changes, when his team comes back he has to wait until his 4 plays out is over.

Now that's an idea worth considering. So assign a specific number of plays he has to sit out instead of just vaguely saying "the remainder of the series." Hmmm, I could get on board with that.

 

[ru4real-really?]

Refs can't deal with injuries on the field because they are not trained doctors usually! However, they CAN deal with injury timeouts! If an injury causes a TIME OUT caused by a defensive players injury, if the end result of the play did not gain a first down, then give the offense a first down! If the play in which an injury occurs--creating a TIME OUT, --DID RESULT IN A FIRST DOWN, then add a fifteen yard penalty.

Simple enough! Either way, an injury time out awards the offense a first down! Cart the injured off the field and if he can come back next play, let him in! But the offense has a fresh clock and a first down!

ANYTIME THERE IS PLAY STOPPAGE DUE TO INJURY, THE OFFENSE HAS A FRESH CLOCK AND A FIRST DOWN! (WITH TIME TO TALK IT OVER BETWEEN COACHES AND TEAM)

 

[Vol865]

Nothing will happen. Player safety, even when the injury is faked, is a trump card. Those in charge can't risk being wrong. It's complicated.

The changes don't have to affect player safety

 

[Redheads]

Lots of teams go for it on 4th down now,
Also as for the sitting out X amount of plays. If the number is 4 plays that the player would normally be on the field, simple, make it 4 plays he has to sit out, doesn't matter if the possesion changes, when his team comes back he has to wait until his 4 plays out is over.

I’ve got a few ideas about this. First off, Kiffin is just playing by the rules we have. Doesn’t make it right but it is the rule we have. We do it too. Every extra point we have an offensive lineman go down. When no one even rushes! Last year I remember Hooker hurting his hand and as he was walking off the field they waved for him to go down. He did, which allowed our backup to warmup and take a few snaps, ect. So don’t go saying we don’t do it. It does need to be changed. I can’t hardly go to a game anymore due to the length they go to. Doesn’t happen in the NFL. Why? They have rules in place to keep games that fit into a nice 3 hour TV block. College doesn’t seem to care that the average games now can go 5 hours, with 1 hour of that being actual play. Think about that. Ridiculous. Anybody ever watch soccer? People flop constantly. They run a stretcher out and get ‘em off the field. Why can’t football do that? The only reason to leave a player on the field is for a spinal injury. I’m sick of watching a player with a “cramp” go down and have 9 people go out and look at him, the entire defense walk to the sideline, the guy with the red hat comes out, and 6 commercials later, play resumes. He comes back the next play. Baloney. We all know it. Have the trainers go out with a stretcher and get him off. Next play. Embarrassing to be carried off on a stretcher and then come right back. I guess they would have to start faking spinal injuries. Ha.

 

[Zues1]

You dont. If you go down, you sit out the rest of the series. Period. There's nothing to debate or determine. Whether its fake or not is irrelevant. That eliminates the guess work. I dont see the "slippery slope" you're suggesting here at all. Its pretty cut and dry.

I want my QB , field general on the field after he stubs a finger.
Not sitting on the bench for the next series.

 

[thehardknoxlife]

Nothing will happen. Player safety, even when the injury is faked, is a trump card. Those in charge can't risk being wrong. It's complicated.

If it's a safety concern, wouldn't the safest option be to hold them out for a set time, not be back the very next play?

I honestly believe they need a set amount of injury timeouts per quarter (2-3) where the player can come back the next play after a team timeout, after that, all injuries sit. That way your star players who really did get banged up can come back. If they get banged up more than twice then they need to sit anyway. Add in the rule of the sub'd players sub also gets injured, they both sit the half. We don't need reviews or penalties, just some rule in place that makes this an afterthought.

 

[orangebloodgmc]

If they can make flopping a call in the NBA and college basketball then they surely can do something about faking injuries. They should be able to look at replay of an injury in question and you will know for certain whenever someone is faking. They stand with their hands on their hips and then, BOOM, they got shot by a sniper somehow and writhing in pain.

Exactly. In cases like this that are so blatant, the ref should assess a 15-yd for unsportsmanlike conduct. He doesn't owe any further justification or explanation.

 

[Sara Clark]

Many people have said this is an easy remedy...I don't think so, for me it seems to be a complicated issue. Sitting out a series does nothing to the coach who sends out someone who never plays with one mission, fall on the ground. Seems to me, hitting a school in the pocket book with a fine might be the best way to address, possibly losing time outs would be an option.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

I want my QB , field general on the field after he stubs a finger.
Not sitting on the bench for the next series.

As I posted earlier, the rule would only apply to the defensive side of the ball and the last 2 minutes of the 1st and 2nd halves for the offense.

 

[joevol33]

Simple, if a player goes down more than once, and it's obvious he's faking, make him sit in the opposing fan section for 10 minutes. After that, "if he's able" to walk on the field, he can play again

 

[Zues1]

As I posted earlier, the rule would only apply to the defensive side of the ball and the last 2 minutes of the 1st and 2nd halves for the offense.

I'll believe when I believe it.

 

[DownTheField]

My understanding is that the NCAA tabled this issue. This is why--hot take here, flame away--we will take a step back this year, not forward. In the past, teams may have been reluctant, for whatever reason, to exploit this "cramping" loophole, but now they will not hesitate to apply this loophole as much as they see fit. And it absolutely will neutralize our competitive advantage. Our success seems to be tied directly to our tempo and that will be effectively mitigated by our opponents this coming season.

 

[beamerman]

Yup. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze. I’ve said this before, but you simply cannot have refs making judgement calls on injuries being real or fake, no matter how obvious it is.

Without looking up to see what the current rule is, one way to combat it is no interactions between coaches and players during the injury. Any interaction, the coach can use a timeout or take a yardage penalty. If a coach continues to do it, he is removed from the game. Players stay on the field during an injury and are only allowed to receive water during the break.

I’m sure there’s other methods you could employ to tackle the problem, but flags for faking injuries will never happen.

Let’s try this . A player loses a helmet he has to come out for a play or burn a timeout. Why not injuries? No judgment made on fake or not, safety first. I like sitting out the series before returning.

 

[TheVolsFrog]

Many people have said this is an easy remedy...I don't think so, for me it seems to be a complicated issue. Sitting out a series does nothing to the coach who sends out someone who never plays with one mission, fall on the ground. Seems to me, hitting a school in the pocket book with a fine might be the best way to address, possibly losing time outs would be an option.

Any defensive sub player that's not completed 4 consecutive plays that goes down with an injury other than a serious injury will result in an automatic first down for opposing team

 

[90 Vol]

Nothing will happen. Player safety, even when the injury is faked, is a trump card. Those in charge can't risk being wrong. It's complicated.

I agree that nothing will happen, at least in the short term. However, I believe that player safety is exactly the reason that can be cited in favor of making a player sit for a period of time before being allowed to re-enter the game.

 

[ptcarter]

Refs can't deal with injuries on the field because they are not trained doctors usually! However, they CAN deal with injury timeouts! If an injury causes a TIME OUT caused by a defensive players injury, if the end result of the play did not gain a first down, then give the offense a first down! If the play in which an injury occurs--creating a TIME OUT, --DID RESULT IN A FIRST DOWN, then add a fifteen yard penalty.

Simple enough! Either way, an injury time out awards the offense a first down! Cart the injured off the field and if he can come back next play, let him in! But the offense has a fresh clock and a first down!

ANYTIME THERE IS PLAY STOPPAGE DUE TO INJURY, THE OFFENSE HAS A FRESH CLOCK AND A FIRST DOWN! (WITH TIME TO TALK IT OVER BETWEEN COACHES AND TEAM)

Throw a sneaky chop block in there for a first down. Georgia linemen would do this.

 

[ArmchairQB]

The UT needs to take advantage of Vol-hate. Referees, ESPN, SEC officials, and the like demonstrate their anti-Vols bias pretty often. So to stop the flop, our team should use the flop consistently and often. Then to prevent the UT from getting away with this, they will establish rules about it.

If it continues to be legal, we absolutely should flop too. It doesn't make sense to let the opponent be the only team playing that's fully leveraging all the rules to its own advantage. We play a style of game where we can easily have 20 minutes of possession to our opponent's 40. Our defense gets gassed. Instead of eight minutes of defense, 30 second scoring drive, eight minutes of defense... why not mix it up? Say, a good six "injuries" in a row on first down at the start of our offensive possessions. Give our D a proper breather before we really start running plays!

When we have a noon kick still going on at dinner time, they'll take a harder look at fixing it.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Purdue did it in the bowl game, too.

Better solution - if the defense has a timeout, they have to use it.

If they are out of timeouts, the player has to sit out the rest of the quarter or 10 minutes, whichever is longer.