More Climate BS...

[LouderVol]

I was going to mention the unusually cool period in the 1850s and how tracking increase from that moment is folly.

But I reconsidered. Man made Climate change is faith-based.

depending on what dates, and locations, you want to use the mini-Ice age lasted for about 400 years.

so its not like it was a microscopic blip of mankind's time as the dominant species. and its at least 3x as long as the period they have studied as part of the "industrial age".

 

[McDad]

That’s a bit apples to oranges in terms of perceptible vs imperceptible, but to each their own.

May be to you. But there is a lot of stuff in Christian circles validating, or proving, the biblical narrative and/or the deity of Christ, etc.

Those 'proofs' are as unconvincing to skeptics as the MMGW proofs are to those skeptics.

 

[McDad]

For me the conversation about what we believe in is going to come down to how does that belief govern how you choose to live. As a christian, I should to be different from the world. My actions should align with my belief system. When they don't, the hypocrite is exposed. That hypocrisy casts doubt on what I really believe no matter how loudly and vociferously I tell others how they should be living.

I find the same with those who believe in MMGW. Someone's belief in that doesn't affect me. But the hypocrisy of how they choose to live compared with their message casts doubts. Speaking more about the political and pop culture class of people but it also holds some truth for posters here.

 

[OHvol40]

May be to you. But there is a lot of stuff in Christian circles validating, or proving, the biblical narrative and/or the deity of Christ, etc.

Those 'proofs' are as unconvincing to skeptics as the MMGW proofs are to those skeptics.

For me the conversation about what we believe in is going to come down to how does that belief govern how you choose to live. As a christian, I should to be different from the world. My actions should align with my belief system. When they don't, the hypocrite is exposed. That hypocrisy casts doubt on what I really believe no matter how loudly and vociferously I tell others how they should be living.

I find the same with those who believe in MMGW. Someone's belief in that doesn't affect me. But the hypocrisy of how they choose to live compared with their message casts doubts. Speaking more about the political and pop culture class of people but it also holds some truth for posters here.

Speaking anecdotally, I spent decades considering theology, as I was raised catholic and confirmed. I’ve consumed a lot of information and come to my own judgements/beliefs.

I’m afraid there are a lot of snap judgements made about climate change without much of the same objective consideration and introspection, especially after consuming the available information.

I mean, look at the implication just from the title of this thread.

 

[McDad]

Speaking anecdotally, I spent decades considering theology, as I was raised catholic and confirmed. I’ve consumed a lot of information and come to my own judgements/beliefs.

I’m afraid there are a lot of snap judgements made about climate change without much of the same objective consideration and introspection, especially after consuming the available information.

I mean, look at the implication just from the title of this thread.

It's the same as when I get to read posters refer to the "man in the sky", or the "fairytale", or the "flying spaghetti monster". Those things don't affect God or the Deity of Christ. In the same way, the thread title doesn't affect the observational data about climate change.

You and I arguing over climate change isn't going to do anything to alter the change that is coming. It's just more stuff to bicker about .

Now, what does make a change is how do we choose to live (individually) with the specific belief systems we carry.

 

[OHvol40]

It's the same as when I get to read posters refer to the "man in the sky", or the "fairytale", or the "flying spaghetti monster". Those things don't affect God or the Deity of Christ. In the same way, the thread title doesn't affect the observational data about climate change.

You and I arguing over climate change isn't going to do anything to alter the change that is coming. It's just more stuff to bicker about .

Now, what does make a change is how do we choose to live (individually) with the specific belief systems we carry.

So if you believe in the Christian afterlife, and believe there are dire consequences for not believing or adhering to the teachings of Jesus and the bible… do you not see the parallel with climate change in that if the warnings are correct and nothing is done to curb our releasing of greenhouse gases, the consequences are dire? Yet you seem to adamantly adhere to one and poo-poo the other.

I see some people on here mention fear mongering and grifting in relation to climate change, which I have acknowledged is understandable to be cynical about given our capitalistic world… yet it’s more rare to see those same people acknowledge Christianity being used to fear monger and grift despite there being hundreds of years of evidence that this happens.

 

[McDad]

So if you believe in the Christian afterlife, and believe there are dire consequences for not believing or adhering to the teachings of Jesus and the bible… do you not see the parallel with climate change in that if the warnings are correct and nothing is done to curb our releasing of greenhouse gases, the consequences are dire? Yet you seem to adamantly adhere to one and poo-poo the other.

It's even more basic than that. My belief in the great reward is mine. Once I start telling an unbeliever how to live, what to do, and what not to do to save their soul that's where I have crossed the line. Climate believers are telling me, an unbeliever, how I should live, what to do and not do in order to save the planet.

I see some people on here mention fear mongering and grifting in relation to climate change, which I have acknowledged is understandable to be cynical about given our capitalistic world… yet it’s more rare to see those same people acknowledge Christianity being used to fear monger and grift despite there being hundreds of years of evidence that this happens.

Inconsistencies abound; I agree.

Any belief system is exploitable by people prone to exploitation.

I have only talked to one MMGW person who has made substantive, sacrificial decisions to improve the planet.

 

[GVF]

For me the conversation about what we believe in is going to come down to how does that belief govern how you choose to live. As a christian, I should to be different from the world. My actions should align with my belief system. When they don't, the hypocrite is exposed. That hypocrisy casts doubt on what I really believe no matter how loudly and vociferously I tell others how they should be living.

I find the same with those who believe in MMGW. Someone's belief in that doesn't affect me. But the hypocrisy of how they choose to live compared with their message casts doubts. Speaking more about the political and pop culture class of people but it also holds some truth for posters here.

Well, there's hyprocisy, and there is sin (mistakes). Both are treated equal in the eyes the onlookers. It is impossible to not sin. In basic terms, I'd define hypocrisy as an overt opposing pattern, not an occurance.

 

[OrangeTsar]

There is some merit this until you hold up unbridled capitalism as your golden calf which helped lead to the robber barons (and where we are headed back to). Government should be a check on capitalism and capitalism should be a check on government. Without both being healthy we get unrest. Saying government is the boogeyman is just as naive as the things you lament about the left.

People attacking capitalism because people are greedy usually overlook the fact that government is also ran by people who are greedy (maybe for power moreso than mono). All humans act to some degree in their own self interest. Socialism and other central planning systems depend on fallible man to try and regulate fallible man. There is no relational reason to expect bureaucrats to be any more moral or altruistic than capitalists.
My opinion is that capitalism at least makes use of self interest whilst socialism pretends that it doesn’t exist.

 

[McDad]

Well, there's hyprocisy, and there is sin (mistakes). Both are treated equal in the eyes the onlookers. It is impossible to not sin. In basic terms, I'd define hypocrisy as an overt opposing pattern, not an occurance.

Well in the context of the discussion, I'm talking about sin. Committing adultery on my wife chronically is not a mistake. It is intentional. And for a climate change believer continuing to run their vehicle motorcycle lawn mowers boats their HVAC is also not a mistake. It is intentional.

 

[OHvol40]

It's even more basic than that. My belief in the great reward is mine. Once I start telling an unbeliever how to live, what to do, and what not to do to save their soul that's where I have crossed the line. Climate believers are telling me, an unbeliever, how I should live, what to do and not do in order to save the planet.

Inconsistencies abound; I agree.

Any belief system is exploitable by people prone to exploitation.

I have only talked to one MMGW person who has made substantive, sacrificial decisions to improve the planet.

Ah, where this comparison diverges, though, is who it aims to benefit. One is centered around personal salvation, one is for universal benefit… which I think is where some of your apprehension comes from with climate change. The more autonomous people in our society are going to be apt to maintain personal beliefs and distrust collective beliefs.

 

[hog88]

Well in the context of the discussion, I'm talking about sin. Committing adultery on my wife chronically is not a mistake. It is intentional. And for a climate change believer continuing to run their vehicle motorcycle lawn mowers boats their HVAC is also not a mistake. It is intentional.

Come on now. It's not your morality that's stopping you from committing adultery.

 

[OHvol40]

People attacking capitalism because people are greedy usually overlook the fact that government is also ran by people who are greedy (maybe for power moreso than mono). All humans act to some degree in their own self interest. Socialism and other central planning systems depend on fallible man to try and regulate fallible man. There is no relational reason to expect bureaucrats to be any more moral or altruistic than capitalists.
My opinion is that capitalism at least makes use of self interest whilst socialism pretends that it doesn’t exist.

Ah, but capitalism exists to profit purely for the sake of profit, which is inherently untrustworthy. Not all things that benefit society as a whole are going to be profitable, so you can’t rely on capitalism alone to solve issues. There should be direction and regulation to ensure that capitalism doesn’t become detrimental to society in the name of profit. Teddy Roosevelt recognized this and acted appropriately.

 

[GVF]

Well in the context of the discussion, I'm talking about sin. Committing adultery on my wife chronically is not a mistake. It is intentional. And for a climate change believer continuing to run their vehicle motorcycle lawn mowers boats their HVAC is also not a mistake. It is intentional.

I agree. Just saying a misstep does not a hypocrite make. There's a diff. But, those of us that do say we are a christian, we get viewed and critiqued throuh a different looking glass. While sin is not avoidable, you have full control over decisions and patterns and situations that would be hypocritical. Cheating is the #1 answer for that. How you treat, or talk to, others is #2. IMO.

 

[GVF]

Come on now. It's not your morality that's stopping you from committing adultery.

That would be the lack of offers from hot chicks that would make you say hhmmmm. And Fox don't fancy nobody shorter than Mojo, so I'm off the table too. Had a friend once that said he'd be all over that with his wife kicking him in the a**. He had a desireable wife too, all categories. Thing is he probably did run around. Maybe even with my wife at hte time. couldn't prove it, but I did prove it with tow others. We ain't been friends in 26 years now. The friend. Ain't been friends with the ex since '92.

 

[McDad]

Ah, where this comparison diverges, though, is who it aims to benefit. One is centered around personal salvation, one is for universal benefit… which I think is where some of your apprehension comes from with climate change. The more autonomous people in our society are going to be apt to maintain personal beliefs and distrust collective beliefs.

Disagree about the benefit. Societies all over the world would benefit greatly by people simply following the 10 commandments, let alone the enhanced teachings of Christ.

Imagine a world where love is the most practiced characteristic.

 

[LouderVol]

Ah, where this comparison diverges, though, is who it aims to benefit. One is centered around personal salvation, one is for universal benefit… which I think is where some of your apprehension comes from with climate change. The more autonomous people in our society are going to be apt to maintain personal beliefs and distrust collective beliefs.

This is where Obama corrupted the green movement. Before Obama it would have been the easiest thing to sell green tech to the "autonomous" minded people. Here is a way to live off the grid, save you money in the long term, and allow you to survive on your own in an apocalypse. Its a preppers wet dream.

but nope, Obama had to go and corrupt the narrative, making it political rather than just a good idea for all, as individuals, and as a society.

 

[OHvol40]

Disagree about the benefit. Societies all over the world would benefit greatly by people simply following the 10 commandments, let alone the enhanced teachings of Christ.

Imagine a world where love is the most practiced characteristic.

Maybe, but Christianity is not required to live morally. If we are using the commandments as a guide I’d say we could go without 1, 3, and 4 and not lose any benefit to society. Actually, we could just say treat your family with respect, don’t kill, steal, or bang someone else’s wife, and that’s a good start. I kind of feel like we’re all born with some sense of those things. To me, what is just as important (and something we’ve lost in recent years) is sense of community.

 

[GVF]

Maybe, but Christianity is not required to live morally. If we are using the commandments as a guide I’d say we could go without 1, 3, and 4 and not lose any benefit to society. Actually, we could just say treat your family with respect, don’t kill, steal, or bang someone else’s wife, and that’s a good start. I kind of feel like we’re all born with some sense of those things. To me, what is just as important (and something we’ve lost in recent years) is sense of community.

Good points. We were all created with a choice of how we accept and respond to God. Whichever choice a person makes does not negate, nor guaruntee, the ability to live as a good person. What you believe may or may not happen after life ends does not prohibit a person from making good moral choices. Anything beyond that is fervently knee deep over in the religion thread. There are some non-believers on VN, and in real life, I would respect more as a person than I do most TV evengelists.

 

[GVF]

Well in the context of the discussion, I'm talking about sin. Committing adultery on my wife chronically is not a mistake. It is intentional. And for a climate change believer continuing to run their vehicle motorcycle lawn mowers boats their HVAC is also not a mistake. It is intentional.

Got a good example. Me and the wife used to really like him when he first started getting popular...but Osteen and all his like colleagues....hypos. I don't begrudge anyone enjoying the life their income may afford them. But...when you choose a certain profession...let's just say you never saw read that Jesus wore expensive purple robes when he was on his missions. Show me a preacher in a $30mil mansion (even $1mil) and i'll show you someone that God's work is not their first commitment.