Massacre at Virginia Tech

#201
#201
Vercingetorix said:
See, here we go with the absolutist stuff. Because it would be impossible to remove ALL guns from society, then we somehow can't even talk about reasonable restrictions on sales of new guns?

Life is not all or nothing, despite how the gun lobby acts about it.
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Like I said, common sense doesn't apply
 
#202
#202
Vercingetorix said:
See, here we go with the absolutist stuff. Because it would be impossible to remove ALL guns from society, then we somehow can't even talk about reasonable restrictions on sales of new guns?

Life is not all or nothing, despite how the gun lobby acts about it.
Click to expand...


Now here we go, do you actually think that reasonable restrictions will work?
What we have is more than adequate, what your failing to see is most of these guns used in felony's are sold on the street and enter this country illegally or obtained thru other crimes such as robbery..... The reasonable restriction you talk about would effect only the honest law abiding citizen. That is what it boils down to any laws passed only effects the law abiding citizen not the criminal. Where is your outrage to murders getting off or spending the rest of their life behind bars? Where is your outrage at the robbers who use guns and get out after 3 or 4 years and do it again? Where is your outrage and a justice system that has failed due to apathy and liberalism?
 
#203
#203
justingroves said:
Like I said, common sense doesn't apply
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No it doesn't apply because the first thing said when something like this happens is GUN CONTROL.....No one wants to see or face the truth that our justice system has FAILED.

Gun Control will not help but will in turn worsen the situation
 
#204
#204
Vol67 said:
No it doesn't apply because the first thing said when something like this happens is GUN CONTROL.....No one wants to see orface the truth that our justice system has FAILED.

Gun Control will not help but will in turn worsen the situation
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I know and it sucks.
 
#205
#205
Here is excrepts from a study on school shootings since 1979....

today's parent shows weaker levels of discipline toward children-rearing regarding rules of behavior and conduct.

Ultimately the undisciplined child will behave as an undisciplined, self-centered, self-indulgent adult whose conduct could negatively impact the lives of family, neighbors, colleagues and fellow world citizens, and as a result, make life more difficult for more than himself.

Too many children control their parents. Too often the case is such that mom and dad exert little authority. Instead they bargain with the child setting him up to have unrealistic expectations of a world that won't conform to his demands. In the real world if a person doesn't do his job, he isn't coddled and pandered to. He's fired. A supervisor won't waste time bargaining: "okay, you can serve the burger to the customer after your smoke break... oh and feel free to smoke anywhere, as long as you work for a few minutes... okay??? ... please?"

Nothing is more painful than hearing a parent bargain, or say "please" to their child, or fail to follow through with a demand. If at 3, 4 and 5 Little Suzie is allowed to do what she wants, when she wants, and insists that her parents say "please" (ug!) then she is going to expect to get her way on the playground and in the classroom or, worse, expect everyone to be polite. When she wants to play with the toy that Little Johnny has (and he always got everything he wanted) you can expect them to square off in the schoolyard: alas, school violence.

Let us take this one step further: is it any wonder that one day Johnny who, as a boy always got what he wanted, forces sex when he so "deserves" and "wants" because he didn't get it, even though he said "please"? Not only is he undisciplined but:
  • Uncompassionate
  • Basing a decision on wants without concern for another party
  • Acting on emotion
  • Believing that the world should cater to his wants
The kid who wields too much power at home is in for frustration and shock in the real world which will ultimately frustrate thus anger him. Who will the kid blame? Will he blame himself? No. He will blame the world for not giving him what he "rightfully" wants and deserves. The frustrated either withdraws from the world or acts out. He will ostracize, alienate, name call, fight, retaliate and attention-seek so that the world feels his presence and bows to his insatiable hunger for power, control and attention. One result is a school shooting, a mass attack at school in which a teenager holds hatred for "everyone", a hatred that may be derived from the poor discipline received at home where he was entitled to do as he wished to feel good. The kid doesn't know what to do but hate the world for denying him he believes is rightfully his.

Of course, at home, there is a fine line between teaching self-discipline and exerting punishment. Punishment teaches obedience. Discipline teaches self-control which enhances self-respect. A school shooter could be deemed "out of control", an angry kid acting on emotion and without self-discipline. Some may see it differently, that he who plans a shooting and sacrifices himself for a cause is in fact self-disciplined.

Personally, I don't believe that the murder of classmates is justifiable in any case, nor did any child before 1979. The culture has changed. Today children are justifying murder based on their anger, depression, frustration, etc. But why? Is it because children are experiencing more pain today? Perhaps. Are frustration and loneliness more prevalent among youth today? Perhaps. Might these be reasons why they justify "mass destruction" in class?

Curious to me is that most believe that school shootings are "wrong" and "bad" yet continue to live as they do, conforming to a culture prone to creating a social environment home to more school shootings then any other. They also continue to raise uncompassionate, apathetic, ill-disciplined, uncaring, self-absorbed, bullying, excluding, materialistic children. We may claim to believe school shootings are wrong but we certainly aren't role models for a "better society"; in short, we don't do the right, good, "moral" and practical things to help prevent them.
 
#206
#206
Vercingetorix said:
See, here we go with the absolutist stuff. Because it would be impossible to remove ALL guns from society, then we somehow can't even talk about reasonable restrictions on sales of new guns?

Life is not all or nothing, despite how the gun lobby acts about it.
Click to expand...

There are already laws in place which kept this man from obtaining a gun legally. He was here from China on a student visa. All of the gun control discussion as it pertains to this situation is moot.
 
#207
#207
I hate how everyone jumps into the gun control thing automatically. Guns don't kill people, dumbasses with guns kill people.

However, I will never understand why people would want/need pistols. Just not my cup of tea.
 
#208
#208
This was a case of a crazed Chinaman shooting up a school, not a crazed Chinaman who shouldn't have had the gun. The guns were illegal, per reports I have heard; the certification numbers were rubbed off, as they are commonly done in illegal circumstances. How would have gun control changed what happened if he already obtained these weapons illegally?

If we ban drugs, though, that problem would be solved too. Ohh wait...
 
#209
#209
The Dude said:
This was a case of a crazed Chinaman shooting up a school, not a crazed Chinaman who shouldn't have had the gun. The guns were illegal, per reports I have heard; the certification numbers were rubbed off, as they are commonly done in illegal circumstances. How would have gun control changed what happened if he already obtained these weapons illegally?

If we ban drugs, though, that problem would be solved too. Ohh wait...
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But if only they would outlaw murder...oh wait..
 
#213
#213
justingroves said:
I hate how everyone jumps into the gun control thing automatically. Guns don't kill people, dumbasses with guns kill people.

However, I will never understand why people would want/need pistols. Just not my cup of tea.
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They're not your cup of tea because you don't want to kill people really, really efficiently. It will be interesting to see how this guy obtained his weapons, if indeed it comes out.

Anyway, just goes to show that serious debate on the issue is impossible. Even bringing up the issue of restricting some kinds of weapons is, apparently, tantamount to advocating a house-by-house confiscation. It's everything or nothing.
 
#214
#214
volinbham said:
The Chinaman is not the issue!

Also, Dude Chinaman is not the proper nomenclature - Asian-American please...

Couldn't resist :)
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No, seriously... he's a Chinaman.

"
Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said."



:) He's not an American. That's part of the point that he couldn't have obtained the guns legally... period. :sleep:
 
#215
#215
rwemyss said:
No, seriously... he's a Chinaman.

"
Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said."



:) He's not an American. That's part of the point that he couldn't have obtained the guns legally... period. :sleep:
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Just interjecting a little "Lebowski" into the thread...
 
#216
#216
justingroves said:
I hate how everyone jumps into the gun control thing automatically. Guns don't kill people, dumbasses with guns kill people.

However, I will never understand why people would want/need pistols. Just not my cup of tea.
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Have you ever heard of competitive shooting?
How about gun collecting?
How about just having a hobby?
 
#217
#217
volinbham said:
Just interjecting a little "Lebowski" into the thread...
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I figured you were. :) Just having a little joviality myself. When tragedies like this occur, I make myself laugh about dumb things so I don't have to deal with the reality.
 
#219
#219
Vercingetorix said:
They're not your cup of tea because you don't want to kill people really, really efficiently. It will be interesting to see how this guy obtained his weapons, if indeed it comes out.

Anyway, just goes to show that serious debate on the issue is impossible. Even bringing up the issue of restricting some kinds of weapons is, apparently, tantamount to advocating a house-by-house confiscation. It's everything or nothing.
Click to expand...


What an asinine statement. I guess since I own handguns I want to kill people.
 
#221
#221
Guys, if we could, let's take a day or so to grieve for the victims of this horrible act and hold off on the gun control debate. The point has been clearly made that these were illegally-obtained and carried handguns. I know that gun control might limit the number of guns in the overall population, but like illegal drugs, people that really want them will always be able to get them.

Bottom line is that a terribly disturbed individual went on a vicious rampage and devastated a number of families and America as a whole today. Let's make peace for now and pray for those who are surely enduring the worst of all afflictions: the death of your own children.
 
#222
#222
kiddiedoc said:
Guys, if we could, let's take a day or so to grieve for the victims of this horrible act and hold off on the gun control debate. The point has been clearly made that these were illegally-obtained and carried handguns. I know that gun control might limit the number of guns in the overall population, but like illegal drugs, people that really want them will always be able to get them.

Bottom line is that a terribly disturbed individual went on a vicious rampage and devastated a number of families and America as a whole today. Let's make peace for now and pray for those who are surely enduring the worst of all afflictions: the death of your own children.
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Here Here! :good!:
 
#223
#223
I am devastated for those students and their families that are having to deal with this senseless tragedy. My condolences and prayers go to them.
 
#224
#224
lawgator1 said:
Something for you to consider when buying yourself a gun, Fine Vol.

That's right, you NRA fans, I'm hoisting this up as an example of why owning a gun is not necessarily a great thing. Will be interesting to see how he came to possess it.
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GAVol said:
Not interested in this debate right now, but one guy with a gun could have minimized this tragedy.
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justingroves said:
Good response
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Vercingetorix said:
They're not your cup of tea because you don't want to kill people really, really efficiently. It will be interesting to see how this guy obtained his weapons, if indeed it comes out.

Anyway, just goes to show that serious debate on the issue is impossible. Even bringing up the issue of restricting some kinds of weapons is, apparently, tantamount to advocating a house-by-house confiscation. It's everything or nothing.
Click to expand...
I look forward to the day when I will read the following headline:
Man with no permit or license to carry firearm, puts a quick end to killer's spree.
 
#225
#225
Illegal guns are like drugs if you want some they can be attained. Real, I would say ex military could convert a ar-15 to full auto pretty easy.
 
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