Knowles/Portal changes etc.

#1

Stoerner Fumbles

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#1
This thread is a bit all over the place as it captures a few different aspects, but not organized perfectly. Just sharing some observations from long conversations with friends inside the department and the collective:

This will be the first year where player value is represented in market price with established values for players calculated before they enter team negotiations. I don’t have the time to elaborate, but this will be more about players generating alpha over perceived market value. This is 10x more sophisticated than it was last year. The key will be identifying players whose value is above perceived market value based on a formula that weights talent, body type, measurable and established performance. Unfortunately I believe we are behind other programs in deep analytics. Not surprisingly, Vandy and Indiana used analytics to identify players whose value was greater than market, with a focus on a metric that leans more on experience and proof than speculation. Our coaches have been above excellent at eye test evaluations on talent, and our transfers typically perform above their paper grades. We are not good at identifying high value players against market. That has to change quickly. Knowles understands analytics and will be quick to share recommendations on how we can improve.

One huge advantage of the Knowles hire— he’s not a jerk. He’s an excellent teacher, patient detail guy, but he doesn’t chase off people. He mentors them. You already can see this in the coaches who are following him. This will be true of past players too. Don’t judge a former PSU player based on PSU’s 25 record. They were building an A+ talent asset, and had some exceptional young and developed talent. Like Franklin or not, he is exceptional at spotting undervalued defensive talent and developing them quickly. He was such a believer in Knowles, that he gave full control to him. We’re going to get some good PSU, potentially OSU and other players that believe Knowles and team can grow their stock for the draft.

Our incoming Freshman class grades off the charts on high alpha over stars/player rating. Many guys are true positional game-changers. Many on staff believe this class is the best in the country regardless of rank. Our portal game, money game, analytics game needs to take a big jump fast.

I’d look for Knowles to move very quickly on four or five guys at safety, Leo, interior DL, corner to stabilize things.

On O, Heupel and his team are good at grading players, but we have a ceiling on budget that has been passed by the superpowers, and the bidding this year will be both sophisticated and aggressive. Right now some of the same boosters who banked Ament’s signing are being recruited to be ready if we need a big gun, but can’t bid effectively.

As Larry mentioned, we have to fit our needs inside our budget unless new money comes in.

It will be interesting to see how we fare in this new landscape.
 
#3
#3
Thank you, SF, for the great insights. Data Analytics is so large in sales processes in every industry that it makes sense to bring it to recruiting as well. Very excited to see the Athletic Department take the next step into the future! GBO!!
 
#4
#4
I'm all for fixing the defense. That need is more than obvious. Im excited to see what kind of stabilty and growth Knowles and Co can bring, and fast.

I saw Hubbs mention in the WR that he expects Heup to be in talks with Sam Leavitt.

My question is do you really think anyone will pony up the $3-4 mil that will be required to grab him or another starting Qb from the TP? We all know Heup's O depends on a solid Qb to succeed, so it seems just as important as fixing the D to me.
 
#5
#5
I'm all for fixing the defense. That need is more than obvious. Im excited to see what kind of stabilty and growth Knowles and Co can bring, and fast.

I saw Hubbs mention in the WR that he expects Heup to be in talks with Sam Leavitt.

My question is do you really think anyone will pony up the $3-4 mil that will be required to grab him or another starting Qb from the TP? We all know Heup's O depends on a solid Qb to succeed, so it seems just as important as fixing the D to me.

Offense led the league in scoring this year with a guy taking snaps who wasn’t on the team until April.

We’ll prob be ok on offense.
 
#6
#6
I'm all for fixing the defense. That need is more than obvious. Im excited to see what kind of stabilty and growth Knowles and Co can bring, and fast.

I saw Hubbs mention in the WR that he expects Heup to be in talks with Sam Leavitt.

My question is do you really think anyone will pony up the $3-4 mil that will be required to grab him or another starting Qb from the TP? We all know Heup's O depends on a solid Qb to succeed, so it seems just as important as fixing the D to me.
We are talking to, are interested in Leavitt. Like it or not, Heupel and GMac and his people all understand he needs some physical development to take the hits. We will pursue a qb, and will not aim for a backup. Unfortunately, Leavitt is an example of a player who fits the superpower bidding scenario. Both LSU and Oregon have open checkbooks and they both want him too. If we were to succeed, it would be driven by an Angel booster filling in the needed funds as we did with Ament. Leavitt's market price is perceived to have grown from 2mm annually to perhaps 4-5. He's probably out of our range.
 
#7
#7
This thread is a bit all over the place as it captures a few different aspects, but not organized perfectly. Just sharing some observations from long conversations with friends inside the department and the collective:

This will be the first year where player value is represented in market price with established values for players calculated before they enter team negotiations. I don’t have the time to elaborate, but this will be more about players generating alpha over perceived market value. This is 10x more sophisticated than it was last year. The key will be identifying players whose value is above perceived market value based on a formula that weights talent, body type, measurable and established performance. Unfortunately I believe we are behind other programs in deep analytics. Not surprisingly, Vandy and Indiana used analytics to identify players whose value was greater than market, with a focus on a metric that leans more on experience and proof than speculation. Our coaches have been above excellent at eye test evaluations on talent, and our transfers typically perform above their paper grades. We are not good at identifying high value players against market. That has to change quickly. Knowles understands analytics and will be quick to share recommendations on how we can improve.

One huge advantage of the Knowles hire— he’s not a jerk. He’s an excellent teacher, patient detail guy, but he doesn’t chase off people. He mentors them. You already can see this in the coaches who are following him. This will be true of past players too. Don’t judge a former PSU player based on PSU’s 25 record. They were building an A+ talent asset, and had some exceptional young and developed talent. Like Franklin or not, he is exceptional at spotting undervalued defensive talent and developing them quickly. He was such a believer in Knowles, that he gave full control to him. We’re going to get some good PSU, potentially OSU and other players that believe Knowles and team can grow their stock for the draft.

Our incoming Freshman class grades off the charts on high alpha over stars/player rating. Many guys are true positional game-changers. Many on staff believe this class is the best in the country regardless of rank. Our portal game, money game, analytics game needs to take a big jump fast.

I’d look for Knowles to move very quickly on four or five guys at safety, Leo, interior DL, corner to stabilize things.

On O, Heupel and his team are good at grading players, but we have a ceiling on budget that has been passed by the superpowers, and the bidding this year will be both sophisticated and aggressive. Right now some of the same boosters who banked Ament’s signing are being recruited to be ready if we need a big gun, but can’t bid effectively.

As Larry mentioned, we have to fit our needs inside our budget unless new money comes in.

It will be interesting to see how we fare in this new landscape.
where's the 10% and Adidas $?
 
#11
#11
We are talking to, are interested in Leavitt. Like it or not, Heupel and GMac and his people all understand he needs some physical development to take the hits. We will pursue a qb, and will not aim for a backup. Unfortunately, Leavitt is an example of a player who fits the superpower bidding scenario. Both LSU and Oregon have open checkbooks and they both want him too. If we were to succeed, it would be driven by an Angel booster filling in the needed funds as we did with Ament. Leavitt's market price is perceived to have grown from 2mm annually to perhaps 4-5. He's probably out of our range.

Alonza please and thank you
 
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#13
#13
Offense led the league in scoring this year with a guy taking snaps who wasn’t on the team until April.

We’ll prob be ok on offense.
Do you think GMAC is ready to take the reigns? Joey had played a lot of football prior to getting here and by all accounts was a very hard worker. Not saying GMAC isn't ready as I don't know, but AP alluded to him needing to work harder to get ready. Dont get me wrong, I'd love to see them save the money on a Qb and spend it on a good RB and the Defense, assuming GMAC is ready to play.
 
#15
#15
Do you think GMAC is ready to take the reigns? Joey had played a lot of football prior to getting here and by all accounts was a very hard worker. Not saying GMAC isn't ready as I don't know, but AP alluded to him needing to work harder to get ready. Dont get me wrong, I'd love to see them save the money on a Qb and spend it on a good RB and the Defense, assuming GMAC is ready to play.

I have no idea but if he’s not they’ll grab a portal qb to compete
 
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#16
#16
We are talking to, are interested in Leavitt. Like it or not, Heupel and GMac and his people all understand he needs some physical development to take the hits. We will pursue a qb, and will not aim for a backup. Unfortunately, Leavitt is an example of a player who fits the superpower bidding scenario. Both LSU and Oregon have open checkbooks and they both want him too. If we were to succeed, it would be driven by an Angel booster filling in the needed funds as we did with Ament. Leavitt's market price is perceived to have grown from 2mm annually to perhaps 4-5. He's probably out of our range.
Who are some other targets at QB for the Vols besides Leavitt?
 
#17
#17
We are talking to, are interested in Leavitt. Like it or not, Heupel and GMac and his people all understand he needs some physical development to take the hits. We will pursue a qb, and will not aim for a backup. Unfortunately, Leavitt is an example of a player who fits the superpower bidding scenario. Both LSU and Oregon have open checkbooks and they both want him too. If we were to succeed, it would be driven by an Angel booster filling in the needed funds as we did with Ament. Leavitt's market price is perceived to have grown from 2mm annually to perhaps 4-5. He's probably out of our range.
I was afraid of that. I get not wanting to put all the onus on one or two boosters to pay these kids too.
 
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#19
#19
We are talking to, are interested in Leavitt. Like it or not, Heupel and GMac and his people all understand he needs some physical development to take the hits. We will pursue a qb, and will not aim for a backup. Unfortunately, Leavitt is an example of a player who fits the superpower bidding scenario. Both LSU and Oregon have open checkbooks and they both want him too. If we were to succeed, it would be driven by an Angel booster filling in the needed funds as we did with Ament. Leavitt's market price is perceived to have grown from 2mm annually to perhaps 4-5. He's probably out of our range.

My only thing with this is there were QBs that got $4M last year.

Should not have caught anyone by surprise that the top names at QB would be getting offered that much a year later.
 
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#20
#20
We are talking to, are interested in Leavitt. Like it or not, Heupel and GMac and his people all understand he needs some physical development to take the hits. We will pursue a qb, and will not aim for a backup. Unfortunately, Leavitt is an example of a player who fits the superpower bidding scenario. Both LSU and Oregon have open checkbooks and they both want him too. If we were to succeed, it would be driven by an Angel booster filling in the needed funds as we did with Ament. Leavitt's market price is perceived to have grown from 2mm annually to perhaps 4-5. He's probably out of our range.
I still don't understand what Leavitt has done to warrant $4m+. He's proven to be a solid QB and has some playoff experience, but he hasn't been elite. I guess with the options in the portal, the top guys are always going to get overpaid just because of all the teams desperate to find a capable guy.
 
#21
#21
We are talking to, are interested in Leavitt. Like it or not, Heupel and GMac and his people all understand he needs some physical development to take the hits. We will pursue a qb, and will not aim for a backup. Unfortunately, Leavitt is an example of a player who fits the superpower bidding scenario. Both LSU and Oregon have open checkbooks and they both want him too. If we were to succeed, it would be driven by an Angel booster filling in the needed funds as we did with Ament. Leavitt's market price is perceived to have grown from 2mm annually to perhaps 4-5. He's probably out of our range.

I've heard Heup is not the type of guy to go out of his way to woo the 'Angel' booster like Barnes did for Ament and Vitello did in the past. Does that jive with what you know about him? I hope the aggressive moves he's made so far means that mindset has changed if true.
 
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#22
#22
My only thing with this is there were QBs that got $4M last year.

Should not have caught anyone by surprise that the top names at QB would be getting offered that much a year later.
Believe there's still a few good QB's we can get undervalue though... The kid from ECU comes to mind, he couldn't have been breaking the bank at East Carolina..
 
#24
#24
Believe there's still a few good QB's we can get undervalue though... The kid from ECU comes to mind, he couldn't have been breaking the bank at East Carolina..

I’m good with whatever direction they go!

I think whoever’s job it is to assign value to portal players and then inform Heup / money people what the market will be is bad at their job if they are surprised Leavitt getting $4M offers.
 
#25
#25
My only thing with this is there were QBs that got $4M last year.

Should not have caught anyone by surprise that the top names at QB would be getting offered that much a year later.
That’s not the point. “Top” isn’t a specific metric. A know a guy who bought “a car” for a hundred grand doesn’t tell you anything about cars in general. Last year, many undervalued players were picked up for a bargain. This year QBs are coming into the portal valued at 2mm by analysts and receiving 4 to 5mm offers. The desperation to win now is blowing up everything. When the word is out that IU and Vandy won with deep player analytics, everyone is in that business. The funny/sad thing is Heupel made the case to DW who made it to Spyre that a great qb is a 10mm value over a full career. That led to Nico. We were first in making big qb bets, but not the best, and now we are competing with programs with unlimited resources for a finite pool of QBs.
 

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