Kim Caldwell (Rookie Coach of the Year-WBCA) is named Head Coach of Iconic Lady Vols WBB

[glv98]

Except that after 5 seasons the AD made the judgement call that he needed new leadership to get the team to a higher level, which I think a majority of the LV fans agree with. CKH has a long career of results and if you were hoping for a 180 in the next few seasons than you and your AD see it differently.

If the AD doesn't see a turnaround in the next few seasons then I've badly misunderstood this whole process. Pretty sure we;ve heard over and over that's the whole purpose. No more 5 years and fingers crossed plans. We had the best one of those anyone is ever likely to have.

 

[Rooster1]

Yall getting a little worried in Columbia aren’t you? I can sense it

Not even a “little”.

 

[Rooster1]

If the AD doesn't see a turnaround in the next few seasons then I've badly misunderstood this whole process. Pretty sure we;ve heard over and over that's the whole purpose. No more 5 years and fingers crossed plans. We had the best one of those anyone is ever likely to have.

Who said anything about 5 years? “By year three” can be equated to “in the next few seasons”.

 

[VolBall09]

Not even a “little”.

lol we’ll see, we’ll see.

 

[glv98]

So the NIL issue I have read about the past two years on this site has been fixed? There is ample $ now that CKH is gone? Donors were just waiting on the AD to make a move?

Yes, that's exactly what the local reporters are saying. Makes sense. We were told there was a last minute NIL drop a few days before KJH was fired. Apparently the mistrust the AD had for her was shared by donors.

Which explains the withholding from the beloved brand. More sad and unlucky news for KJH, but apparently she was the issue. No one is coming here without a bag, and the AD wouldn't have made the move wo a bag to offer.

 

[brittannica]

So the NIL issue I have read about the past two years on this site has been fixed? There is ample $ now that CKH is gone? Donors were just waiting on the AD to make a move?

That’s what has been reported in local sports media that I’ve seen. Either Kellie was insufficiently working donors (which I doubt) or donors weren’t willing to open their pocketbooks for Kellie. As others have noted, poor Kellie kind of got stuck in a feedback loop of no high impact recruits leading to less than stellar results which led to no donations and lower immediate impact recruits, etc, etc.

edited: meant insufficiently. not enough coffee yet

 

[glv98]

Who said anything about 5 years? “By year three” can be equated to “in the next few seasons”.

I think we're parsing terms here. I'm talking about recruiting direction, and we'll know that very quickly.

 

[Rooster1]

Yes, that's exactly what the local reporters are saying. Makes sense. We were told there was a last minute NIL drop a few days before KJH was fired. Apparently the mistrust the AD had for her was shared by donors.

Which explains the withholding from the beloved brand. More sad and unlucky news for KJH, but apparently she was the issue. No one is coming here without a bag, and the AD wouldn't have made the move wo a bag to offer.

You do know that the RJ bag was a large one? And the JS bag was sizable also. Wells wasn’t free either….

 

[VolBall09]

Yes, that's exactly what the local reporters are saying. Makes sense. We were told there was a last minute NIL drop a few days before KJH was fired. Apparently the mistrust the AD had for her was shared by donors.

Which explains the withholding from the beloved brand. More sad and unlucky news for KJH, but apparently she was the issue. No one is coming here without a bag, and the AD wouldn't have made the move wo a bag to offer.

See, reap what you sow, she sowed a lot of off things apparently. Not bad luck, bad decision making. Which is a little shocking considering how measured Kellie is. Just think that mile wide stubborn streak really got in her way.

 

[glv98]

You do know that the RJ bag was a large one? And the JS bag was sizable also. Wells wasn’t free either….

They have been able to get some decent one off deals, like RIckea's w Mercedes. Actually, we were told Spear and Wells signed for less combined than Del Rosario got at LSU. It's the reliable bag to pay upfront salary like you guys and LSU have they were lacking. Kind of had to scramble for one offs for every potential recruit and often came up short.

 

[Rooster1]

They have been able to get some decent one off deals, like RIckea's w Mercedes. Actually, we were told Spear and Wells signed for less combined than Del Rosario got at LSU. It's the reliable bag to pay upfront salary like you guys and LSU have they were lacking. Kind of had to scramble for one offs for every potential recruit and often came up short.

What does S.C. pay upfront? Some of you kill me with all of your insinuations about school NIL deals and upfront payments…without so much as a single scrap of evidence outside of social media rumors and here say. Nobody knows what UT was able to offer recruits or what other schools were able to offer or pay, but that doesn’t stop many from throwing numbers around and creating narratives.

 

[glv98]

See, reap what you sow, she sowed a lot of off things apparently. Not bad luck, bad decision making. Which is a little shocking considering how measured Kellie is. Just think that Mike wide stubborn streak really got in her way.

knew you'd say that, now we're back to normal. Never give grace, not an ounce. All KJH bad decisions about major injuries brought her exactly what she deserved.

 

[VolBall09]

You do know that the RJ bag was a large one? And the JS bag was sizable also. Wells wasn’t free either….

Oh for sure, I think KJH hated every minute of having to do that though.

I think the real issue wasn’t with the transfers and NIL. Because they were more mature UT had them work with others in the department to line out deals.

Sounds more and more like it was the HS recruits and parents wanting to know what UTs commitment ($$) was going to be for their commitment and she wasn’t willing to go there.

People have gone so far as to use the word “stonewalling” on NIL with Kellie which is unfortunate if true. It’s just how the game is now. It’s basketball AND a business.

Also, you’re my fav gamecock so I’m just giving you a little gentle ribbing. I don’t think DS comes to Knoxville, but what a crazy season in WBB will it have been if she does!

 

[glv98]

What does S.C. pay upfront?

Much more than us. We've heard 25K per yr for ea player on squad for fuzzy future internet ad making commitment. Am I wrong?

 

[VolBall09]

knew you'd say that, now we're back to normal. Never give grace, not an ounce. All KJH bad decisions about major injuries brought her exactly what she deserved.

Hey, I stand firm usually.

I’m also just not generally a believer in good/bad luck. So much of what I’ve gotten out of life is directly correlated to what I put into it. Sure, things have to go right, but I’m a plan B, C, D, E etc person. If option 1 doesn’t work out you better believe I’m pivoting and not wallowing.

Option 1 for Kellie was recruits choosing Tennessee BECAUSE it’s Tennessee and the culture. But the game has change and that’s just not all people are looking for.

Instead of pivoting and playing the game it sounds like she pouted and took her ball home because she didn’t like the new rules.

 

[glv98]

Oh for sure, I think KJH hated every minute of having to do that though.

I think the real issue wasn’t with the transfers and NIL. Because they were more mature UT had them work with others in the department to line out deals.

Sounds more and more like it was the HS recruits and parents wanting to know what UTs commitment ($$) was going to be for their commitment and she wasn’t willing to go there.

People have gone so far as to use the word “stonewalling” on NIL with Kellie which is unfortunate if true. It’s just how the game is now. It’s basketball AND a business.

Also, you’re my fav gamecock so I’m just giving you a little gentle ribbing. I don’t think DS comes to Knoxville, but what a crazy season in WBB will it have been if she does!

That is literally the first time I've ever heard that KJH was reluctant on NIL. Hated every min of the Rickea Mercedes deal? She was there practically dancing! In fact, the staff has been begging for NIL help. Why wouldn't they? Why would KJH or any other functioning coach not want to go there on' NIL? That makes zero sense. If you mean the donors were stonewalling her, apparently that was true. But def not the other way around. Please don't add this to her sin list.

 

[Rooster1]

Much more than us. We've heard 25K per yr for ea player on squad for fuzzy future internet ad making commitment. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. The 25k per player has been in force for over 3 years now For advertising on TV and in print for a conglomerate Of Attorney’s. Are you implying SC’s recruiting success is contingent on that 25k per year stipend?

 

[VolBall09]

That is literally the first time I've ever heard a word of that. In fact, the staff has been begging for NIL help. Why wouldn't they? Why would KJH or any other functioning coach 'stonewall' NIL? That makes zero sense.

That’s what parents of recruits were saying on Twitter yesterday. They were stonewalled by Harper when they asked about NIL opportunities.

And it was very publicized how NIL at UT was going to work when Rickea was signed. We had point people for that in the program who were to be responsible for helping them work deals through Spyre. NONE of that has worked out properly for women’s basketball though it seems to be fine for other sports at UT. Bit odd right?

 

[glv98]

That’s what parents of recruits were saying on Twitter yesterday. They were stonewalled by Harper when they asked about NIL opportunities.

And it was very publicized how NIL at UT was going to work when Rickea was signed. We had point people for that in the program who were to be responsible for helping them work deals through Spyre. NONE of that has worked out properly for women’s basketball though it seems to be fine for other sports at UT. Bit odd right?

If KJH stonewalled anyone on NIL it was bc she knew she had none to offer. The fact NIL was a problem for WBB, which is the only women's sport actually offering significant NIL, is now a solved mystery. And it turned out we were both right. NIL was a problem as we said, and it was bc of lack of faith in KJH which you said. And probably played a big part in AD going ahead w the move.

And I'll add, sadly, it was the right move. If the lack of faith in her was that widespread, it wasn't going to change and it was time. And that dropped head image after the SC game just locked it all in stone. Alot makes more sense now.

 

[VolBall09]

If KJH stonewalled anyone on NIL it was bc she knew she had none to offer. The fact NIL was a problem for WBB, which is the only women's sport actually offering significant NIL, is now a solved mystery. And it turned out we were both right. NIL was a problem as we said, and it was bc of lack of faith in KJH which you said. And probably played a big part in AD going ahead w the move.

And I'll add, sadly, it was the right move. If the lack of faith in her was that widespread, it wasn't going to change and it was time. And that dropped head image after the SC game just locked it all in stone. Alot makes more sense now.

Agree to disagree. You just pointed out yourself that it sounds like she didn’t have any to offer by her own doing.

I know you love an argument on here, but pick a side my friend lol

 

[Majac]

The new hire will also tell us how serious DW is about restoring LV to greatness. IMO there are only 4 coaches with a proven track record of attracting the best players and obtaining the results we want. Those are (and please don't kill me on boards), Kim, Vic, Geno (OMG I can't believe I said that), and Dawn. Money talks.

 

[AthensVol2007]

This is not an apples to apples comparison. WM Coached in Division 3 in Maryville, then in Division 2 at his next stop. In his 15 years at Chattanooga, he made the NCAA 9 times, and made it to the second round once.

He has done well in the last few years at NC ST, but he is 20 years older than Coach Kellie. Compare after 20 more years, maybe that would be a more fair comparison.

He’s a far superior coach yet he took him 15 years to get a D-1 job, KJH fell into one in her 20’s. P5 jobs are above her skill set, she’s had 9-10 years and 2 jobs and the results are the same.

 

[glv98]

You are not wrong. The 25k per player has been in force for over 3 years now For advertising on TV and in print for a conglomerate Of Attorney’s. Are you implying SC’s recruiting success is contingent on that 25k per year stipend?

Like most things in life it's a combination of things. For SC, the guaranteed salary, combined with the mega winning is almost impossible for mere mortals to beat. I'm sure many players would go to SC for less upfront salary bc the chances of winning big and making national endorsements is much greater. It all works together and is why the rich get richer and the rest fall further and further behind.

Agree to disagree. You just pointed out yourself that it sounds like she didn’t have any to offer by her own doing.

I know you love an argument on here, but pick a side my friend lol

Not sure what we're agreeing to disagree about. I said it was both things, NIL was bad and that was apparently bc no one trusted KJH to ever turn it around. But I don't get KJH stonewalling when the stonewall was being thrown up at her. I'm sure she would have eagerly offered NIL if she had any to offer. But all that is water under the bridge now.

 

[creekdipper]

Who is this Hammond person?

Plays mean dirty slide Delta blues and B3 mouth organ.

 

[creekdipper]

You are not wrong. The 25k per player has been in force for over 3 years now For advertising on TV and in print for a conglomerate Of Attorney’s. Are you implying SC’s recruiting success is contingent on that 25k per year stipend?

Stipend?

When I think of "stipends," I think of some pocket money, car mileage and food allowance for company travel, a couple of plane tickets, small perks. Not $100,OOO on top of a full ride just for showing up to practice.