Kiffin

#51
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#51
From 05 to 08, we lost to Florida, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina by a combined 406-292. We went 5-11 against them. 2 of those 4 seasons we were swept by them. But sure, hang onto his record against them in the 90s.

In 2008, we lost to them by a combined score of 112-35. If that's not a widespread whoopin' by our 4 best rivals, I don't know what else to call it.
In 07 Fulmer went on the road and laid a 3td beat down on a Georgia team that finished #2 in the final poll. In 06 he was 3-1 against those 4 rivals. In 04 he swept those 4. So stop acting like all of his success against them was off in the distant past.
 
#52

05_never_again

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#52
In 07 Fulmer went on the road and laid a 3td beat down on a Georgia team that finished #2 in the final poll. In 06 he was 3-1 against those 4 rivals. In 04 he swept those 4. So stop acting like all of his success against them was off in the distant past.
The revisionist history about Kiffin in this thread, like he was some great coach we let slip away, is insane.

I can understand the longing for him if he went to USC or another big school and won/almost won a national title or something, but he hasn't done anything approaching that.
 
#53

crusse10

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#53
The revisionist history about Kiffin in this thread, like he was some great coach we let slip away, is insane.

I can understand the longing for him if he went to USC or another big school and won/almost won a national title or something, but he hasn't done anything approaching that.
Revisionist is allowing something after the situation to alter the way you felt in that moment. It's revisionist history to act like what we had going during 2009 wasn't good. Almost the entire fanbase was on board. We were recruiting at the highest level we've recruited in the last 15 years. We were a team that our rivals actually cared about. We weren't letting the foot off the gas and going into the Mustang package.

Revisionist history is letting the butthurtedness of Kiffin leaving alter the way we felt during the 09 season.
 
#54

05_never_again

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#54
Revisionist is allowing something after the situation to alter the way you felt in that moment. It's revisionist history to act like what we had going during 2009 wasn't good. Almost the entire fanbase was on board. We were recruiting at the highest level we've recruited in the last 15 years. We were a team that our rivals actually cared about. We weren't letting the foot off the gas and going into the Mustang package.

Revisionist history is letting the butthurtedness of Kiffin leaving alter the way we felt during the 09 season.
2009's recruiting class was 5th in the SEC and littered with busts or guys who eventually got kicked off the team (Bryce Brown, Nu'keese Richardson, David Oku, Darren Myles). I remember going 7-5 that year, losing to UCLA at home, getting destroyed by Virginia Tech in the bowl game, and then getting some mild probation after Kiffin left.

To be fair, I also remember playing Florida tough in The Swamp, almost beating Alabama in T-town, stomping (mediocre) South Carolina on Halloween in the black jerseys, and stomping (mediocre) Georgia that year. There were some seeds of optimism, I suppose, but let's not act like it was clear Kiffin was on the verge of building a national power here.

I've said this multiple times in this thread, but if the USC job didn't open up, Kiffin likely would have gotten us to 8-9 wins then would be fired/forced to resign under a cloud of an NCAA investigation, which probably would have resulted in Ole Miss-like probation. Him leaving after a year was probably a blessing in disguise in hindsight, because it limited the damage he did.
 
#56

crusse10

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#56
2009's recruiting class was 5th in the SEC and littered with busts or guys who eventually got kicked off the team (Bryce Brown, Nu'keese Richardson, David Oku, Darren Myles). I remember going 7-5 that year, losing to UCLA at home, getting destroyed by Virginia Tech in the bowl game, and then getting some mild probation after Kiffin left.

To be fair, I also remember playing Florida tough in The Swamp, almost beating Alabama in T-town, stomping (mediocre) South Carolina on Halloween in the black jerseys, and stomping (mediocre) Georgia that year. There were some seeds of optimism, I suppose, but let's not act like it was clear Kiffin was on the verge of building a national power here.

I've said this multiple times in this thread, but if the USC job didn't open up, Kiffin likely would have gotten us to 8-9 wins then would be fired/forced to resign under a cloud of an NCAA investigation, which probably would have resulted in Ole Miss-like probation. Him leaving after a year was probably a blessing in disguise in hindsight, because it limited the damage he did.
Kiffin got here in December and by the time we could ink players, we were flipping 5*s and other blue chips from our rivals. We had a situation with players who broke the law and the arm of justice was swift. Had we had Fulmer, all of those players would have stayed on the team. With Kiffin, the ones deemed responsible for the robbery were immediately gone. I was praising Kiffin for not being soft on punishment.

Yes, we lost to UCLA and we shouldn't have. If that game was later in the season after Crompton started succeeding, that would have been a win. Yes, we lost to Virginia Tech. And if Denarius Moore catches that bomb TD, it's a 1-possession game (and the momentum at that point would have swung directly in our favor) in the 4th quarter.
 
#57
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#57
Kiffin got here in December and by the time we could ink players, we were flipping 5*s and other blue chips from our rivals. We had a situation with players who broke the law and the arm of justice was swift. Had we had Fulmer, all of those players would have stayed on the team. With Kiffin, the ones deemed responsible for the robbery were immediately gone. I was praising Kiffin for not being soft on punishment.

Yes, we lost to UCLA and we shouldn't have. If that game was later in the season after Crompton started succeeding, that would have been a win. Yes, we lost to Virginia Tech. And if Denarius Moore catches that bomb TD, it's a 1-possession game (and the momentum at that point would have swung directly in our favor) in the 4th quarter.
If and buts.

We also lost at home to a meh Auburn team and got destroyed by an above average Ole Miss team.
 
#58

crusse10

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#58
If and buts.

We also lost at home to a meh Auburn team and got destroyed by an above average Ole Miss team.
Auburn game was also before Crompton's switch was flipped. The Ole Miss game was rough, no doubt about that. Absolute whoopin'. I went to Oxford for that game and man was that a bad day.
 
#59

05_never_again

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#59
Kiffin got here in December and by the time we could ink players, we were flipping 5*s and other blue chips from our rivals. We had a situation with players who broke the law and the arm of justice was swift. Had we had Fulmer, all of those players would have stayed on the team. With Kiffin, the ones deemed responsible for the robbery were immediately gone. I was praising Kiffin for not being soft on punishment.

Yes, we lost to UCLA and we shouldn't have. If that game was later in the season after Crompton started succeeding, that would have been a win. Yes, we lost to Virginia Tech. And if Denarius Moore catches that bomb TD, it's a 1-possession game (and the momentum at that point would have swung directly in our favor) in the 4th quarter.
You are really eager to make a lot of assumptions and excuses for Kiffin. Nu'keese held up a convenience store owned by the university's biggest booster at gunpoint. Pretty sure Fulmer or any coach would kick him off the team for that. Kiffin's only recruiting class was full of troublemakers and busts; that's just a fact. It is unreasonable to believe that would have continued in future recruiting classes? You're making Kiffin sound like some high-integrity guy because he kicked felons off the team.

I'll admit that Kiffin did start to turn the offense, and Crompton in particular, around as the season went on (bowl game blowout notwithstanding). There isn't a compelling reason to believe he would've turned Tennessee into some powerhouse again though. Like I said, odds are if Kiffin stayed he would have gotten Tennessee pretty good, then left under a cloud of trouble with the NCAA.
 
#60

crusse10

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#60
You are really eager to make a lot of assumptions and excuses for Kiffin. Nu'keese held up a convenience store owned by the university's biggest booster at gunpoint. Pretty sure Fulmer or any coach would kick him off the team for that. Kiffin's only recruiting class was full of troublemakers and busts; that's just a fact. It is unreasonable to believe that would have continued in future recruiting classes? You're making Kiffin sound like some high-integrity guy because he kicked felons off the team.

I'll admit that Kiffin did start to turn the offense, and Crompton in particular, around as the season went on (bowl game blowout notwithstanding). There isn't a compelling reason to believe he would've turned Tennessee into some powerhouse again though. Like I said, odds are if Kiffin stayed he would have gotten Tennessee pretty good, then left under a cloud of trouble with the NCAA.
Nu'Keese threatened some kids in a car with an airsoft gun eating McDonald's. Not quite holding up the Pilot.
 
#67

crusse10

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#67
Oh ok, nowhere near as bad. They didn't hold up the Pilot, just robbed someone at gunpoint outside of it.
Considering the entire point of your argument was the severity of the crime due to its connection to Pilot and, by proxy, UTK, then yeah. It is actually far less severe.

If you ask me what's worse, 2 players trying to rob kids in a car with an airsoft gun, or a punter getting his 4th DUI for sideswiping cars in the Fort? I'm going with the latter. And that kid got a 4 game suspension (aka as many times as he'd gotten DUIs) and his scholarship revoked.

Excuse me for thinking that Fulmer wasn't willing to pull the plug on a star player after his first transgression.
 
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#68

05_never_again

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#68
Considering the entire point of your argument was the severity of the crime due to its connection to Pilot and, by proxy, UTK, then yeah. It is actually far less severe.

If you ask me what's worse, 2 players trying to rob kids in a car with an airsoft gun, or a punter getting his 4th DUI for sideswiping cars in the Fort? I'm going with the latter. And that kid got a 4 game suspension (aka as many times as he'd gotten DUIs) and his scholarship revoked.

Excuse me for thinking that Fulmer wasn't willing to pull the plug on a star player after his first transgression.
LOL - the charge was severe because he robbed someone at gunpoint. They were charged with armed robbery. It ended up being a pellet gun...but did the people they were sticking up know that? And yeah, it is "worse" that it happened at a Pilot, given who owns Pilot and that family's influence at the University.

As for Colquitt, if memory serves, that was his first and only DUI (where he was caught, anyway). The other 3 previous incidents were for underage consumption I think. He should've been gone earlier, agreed. Neither Phil or Kiffin were disciplinarians.
 
#69

TUSKtimes

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#69
The kind of immaturity that follows Kiffin around is often associated with symptoms of mental illness. In Kiffin's case, it's well worth the consideration. I've never seen anyone sabotage himself more consistently and thoroughly than this man. Who has been handed more opportunities at an early age than Kiffin? Yet, each time, in short fashion, he overstays his welcome and literally wears people out. In short, it's not his gifts, it's the manner he chooses to share them.

Even in a structured environment like Alabama, he had quickly worn out the head coach and frankly even the fans with his ridiculous behavior patterns and immature nature. In his own personal description of his short stay in Tuscaloosa:

“I don’t recall a happy moment,” he told reporters in Atlanta. “I just recall the ass-chewings.

“This will come across wrong,” he told Thamel. “But it’s like dog years. Three years is like 21.”

The feeling was more than mutual and being around people who are otherwise gifted as hell in what they do but can't execute their job with the emotional maturity and thinking ability necessary to relate to others absolutely wears people out in short fashion. In the end, and right before the biggest game of the year, a national championship contest, we just wanted him gone. "Dog years" and Kiffin doesn't even quite explain it for me.
 
#70

05_never_again

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#70
The kind of immaturity that follows Kiffin around is often associated with symptoms of mental illness. In Kiffin's case, it's well worth the consideration. I've never seen anyone sabotage himself more consistently and thoroughly than this man. Who has been handed more opportunities at an early age than Kiffin? Yet, each time, in short fashion, he overstays his welcome and literally wears people out. In short, it's not his gifts, it's the manner he chooses to share them.

Even in a structured environment like Alabama, he had quickly worn out the head coach and frankly even the fans with his ridiculous behavior patterns and immature nature. In his own personal description of his short stay in Tuscaloosa:

“I don’t recall a happy moment,” he told reporters in Atlanta. “I just recall the ass-chewings.

“This will come across wrong,” he told Thamel. “But it’s like dog years. Three years is like 21.”

The feeling was more than mutual and being around people who are otherwise gifted as hell in what they do but can't execute their job with the emotional maturity and thinking ability necessary to relate to others absolutely wears people out in short fashion. In the end, and right before the biggest game of the year, a national championship contest, we just wanted him gone. "Dog years" and Kiffin doesn't even quite explain it for me.
The ironic thing about Kiffin is that a "dog years" environment is about the only place he can operate successfully in for more than a year or two. He needs the controlled, structured environment, but naturally he hates it and doesn't last there either.

I'm curious to see how his FAU tenure turns out. FAU is different territory for him. He's always worked at big time operations. You gotta think he'll grow bored of FAU in the next year or so, don't you? Or he'll blow them up before then?
 
#71

LouderVol

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#71
The ironic thing about Kiffin is that a "dog years" environment is about the only place he can operate successfully in for more than a year or two. He needs the controlled, structured environment, but naturally he hates it and doesn't last there either.

I'm curious to see how his FAU tenure turns out. FAU is different territory for him. He's always worked at big time operations. You gotta think he'll grow bored of FAU in the next year or so, don't you? Or he'll blow them up before then?
i think he is going to be able to get away with a lot there. I think he may like being a big fish in a small pond.
 
#72

butchna

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#72
i think he is going to be able to get away with a lot there. I think he may like being a big fish in a small pond.
Isn’t his brother still under the show cause from violations at Ole Miss? Not many jobs would let their new coach employ a DC who’s barred from recruiting. IIRC the Kiffins had to get a waiver from FAU.
 
#74

Boston Vol

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#74
Isn’t his brother still under the show cause from violations at Ole Miss? Not many jobs would let their new coach employ a DC who’s barred from recruiting. IIRC the Kiffins had to get a waiver from FAU.
Well first, he wasn’t given a show cause until December of last year, eleven months after he was initially hired. Secondly, he no longer coaches at FAU, he’s with the 49ers now.
 

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