Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[volmanNC]

every year it's the same problem. turnovers and missed free throws. if only there was time to work on this stuff before the season starts.

The only work that needs to be done is work on getting a new coach and staff.

 

[Rooster1]

Turnovers are the biggest problem on this team. We do not shoot well enough to win against team that can rebound. When we compete against a good rebounding team we are in trouble because we can’t score with them because our turnovers steal shots and bring chaos to consistency. Why can’t we value the ball? When the season started I could feel the same thing that happened to Holly. I am an older fan and maybe you can no longer bench a player for not valuing the ball. I hate to say this but as long as we are averaging over 14+ turnovers a games we will not get to where we want to be. Go

Quick question, because I don’t know the answer. With all the discussion in this thread on turnovers, could someone give me (us) some perspective here by remembering what the turnovers per game were for the LV teams during the CPS years? Thx in advance.

Edit* I was able to find one stat, from 2008 championship tourney, CPS’s last NC. In six games, the LV’s had 76 turnovers. Just a hair over 12 per game. Not sure about in general during her career, those stats are hard to find for me For some reason. But 12 a game is quite good. I think I can recall some previous Uconn teams that had 10 or fewer per game, but that is not seen often for a season.

 

[glv98]

Quick question, because I don’t know the answer. With all the discussion in this thread on turnovers, could someone give me (us) some perspective here by remembering what the turnovers per game were for the LV teams during the CPS years? Thx in advance.

Edit* I was able to find one stat, from 2008 championship tourney, CPS’s last NC. In six games, the LV’s had 76 turnovers. Just a hair over 12 per game. Not sure about in general during her career, those stats are hard to find for me For some reason. But 12 a game is quite good.

I don't remember excessive t.o.s being a big issue back then. Her teams were struggling in half court offense at that point, but not particularly w t.o. But that was 15 yrs ago and opposing players were not as big, strong, or fast as they are now. And CPS had a huge talent edge.

Every agonizing time the T.O. discussion rears its ugly head, it's interesting how many people believe it's an issue of players not "giving effort" "playing with fire" or too worried about eyelashes. Therefore it's purposeful misbehavior that can only be fixed thru punishment so that they "decide" not to make t.o.s anymore. Ya'll think coaches haven't thought of that? If only it were that simple, no team would make more than a handful a game.

The real issues of execution and decision making are obviously way harder to fix.

 

[Rooster1]

Also, on the discussion of turnovers. Every player is different in how you approach them on that. Staley had been riding Cooke hard the past three season on turnovers and shot selection. It was getting into Cooke’s head and led to her playing poorly last season by her standards.

So Staley took a diff approach this September, she said to her "just play -- don't worry about missed shots, don't worry about turnovers. This is your last year, F it."

Now some would look at that as a careless thing to say to a player. But after 3 years of riding this player’s back on those issues, she knew a diff approach was needed. Every player is different.

 

[glv98]

Also, on the discussion of turnovers. Every player is different in how you approach them on that. Staley had been riding Cooke hard the past three season on turnovers and shot selection. It was getting into Cooke’s head and led to her playing poorly last season by her standards.

So Staley took a diff approach this September, she said to her "just play -- don't worry about missed shots, don't worry about turnovers. This is your last year, F it."

Now some would look at that as a careless thing to say to a player. But after 3 years of riding this player’s back on those issues, she knew a diff approach was needed. Every player is different.

Definitely individual approaches needed. Harper has played out that scenerio w Horston's head for years now. LOL and appparently with the same conclusion: turnovers, smyrnovers, you just do you.

All that said, Barnes very often pulls immediately for t.o.s, thereby not only punishing but publically punishing. Heard him asked about it once and he said its very tricky, espec w young players, Never want to make them play scared.

What rattles me about the LVs t.o. woes in recent years is the snowball effect they so often have. They come in bunches, like baby rabbits and are frequently unforced. If I have to hear one more announcer say "ANOTHER turnover!" . . .

 

[Rooster1]

It seems to me that turnovers can be placed in three buckets generally speaking.

Bucket number one is called team turnovers, it’s like when a player is being trapped and there is no teammate in the right place to help them get the ball out for instance. That is team chemistry and awareness type turnovers. Training the team properly for the many situations they will face. Coaches can prepare/develop teams to improve this.

Bucket number two is a player committing turnovers because the speed/skill level of the game is a bit much for them. Call this the need for better skills/athleticism pool. Coaches can recruit out of this type In general, but every team has some players like this tbh, trick is to keep the number real low.

Bucket number three is the hard one, it’s where an extremely good player is often trying to make the kind of play that only the great ones can do, sometimes making it, sometimes turning it over. Coaches have to be careful how this group is handled on an individual basis. You would put Horston in this bucket, and it is where Cooke from SC sits as well.

Coaching at this level is not easy. The competition is better than ever, and talent is everywhere now, including in the coaching ranks.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

It seems to me that turnovers can be placed in three buckets generally speaking.

Bucket number one is called team turnovers, it’s like when a player is being trapped and there is no teammate in the right place to help them get the ball out for instance. That is team chemistry and awareness type turnovers. Training the team properly for the many situations they will face. Coaches can prepare/develop teams to improve this.

Bucket number two is a player committing turnovers because the speed/skill level of the game is a bit much for them. Call this the need for better skills/athleticism pool. Coaches can recruit out of this type In general, but every team has some players like this tbh, trick is to keep the number real low.

Bucket number three is the hard one, it’s where an extremely good player is often trying to make the kind of play that only the great ones can do, sometimes making it, sometimes turning it over. Coaches have to be careful how this group is handled on an individual basis. You would put Horston in this bucket, and it is where Cooke from SC sits as well.

Coaching at this level is not easy. The competition is better than ever, and talent is everywhere now, including in the coaching ranks.

What do you call the turnover when a player with the ball doesn't look before they pass it, and it is intercepted by an opponent? LV's do that too much.

 

[Rickster]

What do you call the turnover when a player with the ball doesn't look before they pass it, and it is intercepted by an opponent? LV's do that too much.

It's almost like they believe the defensive player is going to allow the pass or they are invisible. Jordan W. has done that more times than I want to admit.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

It's almost like they believe the defensive player is going to allow the pass or they are invisible. Jordan W. has done that more times than I want to admit.

Nothing worse than the ‘no look’ pass becoming a turnover, no matter who does it.

 

[Rickster]

Nothing worse than the ‘no look’ pass becoming a turnover, no matter who does it.

No look would be better than looking right at them then throwing the ball. I've seen it both ways. We didn't seem to move well in the backcourt last year leading to the same turnovers. I hope they get it cleaned up this year.

 

[NeedOrange]

It seems to me that turnovers can be placed in three buckets generally speaking.

Bucket number one is called team turnovers, it’s like when a player is being trapped and there is no teammate in the right place to help them get the ball out for instance. That is team chemistry and awareness type turnovers. Training the team properly for the many situations they will face. Coaches can prepare/develop teams to improve this.

Bucket number two is a player committing turnovers because the speed/skill level of the game is a bit much for them. Call this the need for better skills/athleticism pool. Coaches can recruit out of this type In general, but every team has some players like this tbh, trick is to keep the number real low.

Bucket number three is the hard one, it’s where an extremely good player is often trying to make the kind of play that only the great ones can do, sometimes making it, sometimes turning it over. Coaches have to be careful how this group is handled on an individual basis. You would put Horston in this bucket, and it is where Cooke from SC sits as well.

Coaching at this level is not easy. The competition is better than ever, and talent is everywhere now, including in the coaching ranks.

I haven't looked this year. But last year I checked a series of games and about one third of the turnovers were offensive fouls. Which will fit nicely in your bucket 3.

 

[Rooster1]

What do you call the turnover when a player with the ball doesn't look before they pass it, and it is intercepted by an opponent? LV's do that too much.

Bucket #2 likely. But I am open to a new bucket called lazy play…..for players with the right amount of skills but just not the mental focus needed to play cleaner ball.

 

[utkCREW]

I so wanted Harper to do it -- she is one of our fabled great floor generals and VFL... It's why it hurts so bad to get rid of her.

Time to dump her at the prom tho.

 

[volmanNC]

Good Grief so poorly coached

What did you expect?

 

[Jeff Clark]

I so wanted Harper to do it -- she is one of our fabled great floor generals and VFL... It's why it hurts so bad to get rid of her.

Time to dump her at the prom tho.

Kellie is a nicer version of Holly Warlick that's my opinion of her

 

[SGMVols]

Kellie is a nicer version of Holly Warlick that's my opinion of her

Sometimes I think Holly was better. She could at least recruit

 

[Majors]

Sometimes I think Holly was better. She could at least recruit

Standards and expectations were different by the fans. Somehow this is tolerated

 

[knoxvol52]

Kari Lawson at Duke is doing a good job of rebuilding that program probably should have hired her to start with or was she still playing in WNBA

 

[VOLPAT]

Sometimes I think Holly was better. She could at least recruit

No, she wasn’t. You forget.

 

[utkCREW]

Goodbye Coach Harper.

Thank you for your efforts. You will always be a VFL, but we put you into a position that was unfair to you. Good luck in your future endeavors.

 

[volmanNC]

Probably will not even make the NCAA tournament. Certainly not at this rate of play.

 

[volmanNC]

you could not have paid me to think we would have started the first 3 games 1-2.

Agree, with this coach I expected 0-3.

 

[utkCREW]

So who do you think we can get? It's so tough to see Kara Lawson revitalizing Duke!

 

[Majors]

I post as a coach and as a coach I am not impressed with our coaching right now.
I ain't the sugar-coating type.

I post as a realist, she is who she is and many here have said it. She’s in over her head as a coach and recruiter.

 

[utkCREW]

Goodbye Coach Harper.

Thank you for your efforts. You will always be a VFL, but we put you into a position that was unfair to you. Good luck in your future endeavors.

Oh they merged my thread! It's time to say goodbye to the Harper era -- WHO'S NEXT?!