Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[stlvolsfan]

4 players you cite as 4 star or better. That's not even a starting five.

Look at Stanford, UConn, SC, they're loaded and it shows when we play them.

I think they should go find the #1 recruiter in Women's BB and pay her whatever it takes to get her to join the staff. Barnes uses his staff for primary recruiting, she could do the same.

Where’s Holly’s recruiter? What was her name Sharrona something? Where is she?

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

I used to travel to Springfield a bit in my job, and as I remember, the Hammon family, who made their money in the hotel business, were huge benefactors of that school.

Yes, back in the day it was.

 

[stlvolsfan]

I used to travel to Springfield a bit in my job, and as I remember, the Hammon family, who made their money in the hotel business, were huge benefactors of that school.

Yep!

 

[Coach Jumper]

OK I was with you until the last line. I'll give you Carson Newman's 2022 basketball team and I will take the five players named first team AA at season's end. You can have any coach in America and I'll take Donnie Tyndall. I'll bet Tyndalll wins 10 out of 10 games. There are some things coaching just can't fix, like being short and slow (and no I didn't say our team was short and slow, I'm making a point).

Your choosing a scenario...i am dealing with reality
Tn v Stanford...what if they switched teams at the start of the game...No pre-workouts,,,just swapped teams,,,would the results be the same

you see now why it is such a compliment to be told, as a coach, "you could have won with either team",,,it is not a reflection of the team, it is a commendation to the coach.

And the antithesis of that compliment is to hear those dreadful words..."You got out-coached",,,
those words hit home for a coach.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

Sharrona Reaves. I thought that she should have been retained by Kellie as well and when that didn't happen, I thought she would be snatched up by someone else quickly, but she apparently dropped out of coaching and now has a motivational podcast/website. Maybe she was tired of the coaching/recruiting rat race.

These Three Things Podcast – A Podcast for Women of Color

Where’s Holly’s recruiter? What was her name Sharrona something? Where is she?

 

[Volfaninfl2]

She took South Missouri State to the Sweet 16.

Thanks, edited, had EE on brain because of the post I was replying to, still was an impressive accomplishment.

 

[vettefool]

I mean they did just get a commitment from Darby's little sister, and they made the top 12 for some very highly rated players. Things are turning around...

Be careful, there are many that want to ban free speech on this site. While I believe you are often overly critical of the coach, I think you should be allowed to express your opinion.. you are correct that recruiting needs to be improved, but seems she is doing a pretty good job with the players she has. Losses to Auburn and to a lesser extent Florida do make one give pause. Hopefully we can go a ways in ncaa tournament this year, not get beat in 1sr couple of rounds.

 

[stlvolsfan]

Sharrona Reaves. I thought that she should have been retained by Kellie as well and when that didn't happen, I thought she would be snatched up by someone else quickly, but she apparently dropped out of coaching and now has a motivational podcast/website. Maybe she was tired of the coaching/recruiting rat race.

These Three Things Podcast – A Podcast for Women of Color

View attachment 434550

Thanks for the update. Maybe for the right price, she could be convinced to come out of retirement. But I really like Coach Sam and I think she will get the job done!

 

[Coach Jumper]

Be careful, there are many that want to ban free speech on this site. While I believe you are often overly critical of the coach, I think you should be allowed to express your opinion.. you are correct that recruiting needs to be improved, but seems she is doing a pretty good job with the players she has. Losses to Auburn and to a lesser extent Florida do make one give pause. Hopefully we can go a ways in ncaa tournament this year, not get beat in 1sr couple of rounds.

Fla is now #17 and Aub played them to a 7 point game...they were underrated and are climbing in the SOS charts

 

[madtownvol]

Be careful, there are many that want to ban free speech on this site. While I believe you are often overly critical of the coach, I think you should be allowed to express your opinion.. you are correct that recruiting needs to be improved, but seems she is doing a pretty good job with the players she has. Losses to Auburn and to a lesser extent Florida do make one give pause. Hopefully we can go a ways in ncaa tournament this year, not get beat in 1sr couple of rounds.

This season, we are seeing more upsets or games where unranked teams push ranked ones the limit. #9 Michigan recently lost to unranked MIchigan St., Arizona has had some close games to unranked PAC 10 opponents and so on.. Many people have been predicting that a higher level of parity would be coming to WCBB and I think it is finally happening. The transfer portal is really facilitating that. High ranked recruits are going to elite programs and then transferring to other often lower ranked schools where they can have more impact.

 

[madtownvol]

4 players you cite as 4 star or better. That's not even a starting five.

Look at Stanford, UConn, SC, they're loaded and it shows when we play them.

I think they should go find the #1 recruiter in Women's BB and pay her whatever it takes to get her to join the staff. Barnes uses his staff for primary recruiting, she could do the same.

Yes, it is certainly reasonable to expect Kellie-- a third-year coach who was hired late in the recruiting cycle of her first year and who has had to cope with Covid disruptions-- to be recruiting at the level of Stanford and Tara van Deveer.

 

[Voluble2]

Yes, it is certainly reasonable to expect Kellie-- a third-year coach who was hired late in the recruiting cycle of her first year and who has had to cope with Covid disruptions-- to be recruiting at the level of Stanford and Tara van Deveer.

It is certainly reasonable to expect her to recruit at the level of her predecessor.

In fact, the best recruiting years are often the first years for new coaches coming into established programs because they can sell both past success and a vision for a better future. You see this in football all the time. If football coaches don't have early recruiting success they are usually gone. It is only because women's basketball is such a low priority that there is not more churning there.

She has done fine on the court and in developing players. None of that will matter at the level she is currently recruiting. The 2023 class and what she gets in the portal this season will make or break her. Let's hope she comes through.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Be careful, there are many that want to ban free speech on this site.

It's fine. I have the crybabies who want to cancel me on ignore. If I cross a line I trust freak, and NOT our resident virtue signalers, will address it.

While I believe you are often overly critical of the coach, I think you should be allowed to express your opinion.. you are correct that recruiting needs to be improved, but seems she is doing a pretty good job with the players she has. Losses to Auburn and to a lesser extent Florida do make one give pause. Hopefully we can go a ways in ncaa tournament this year, not get beat in 1sr couple of rounds.

Fair. And you're correct, I probably am overly critical. I will give Kellie credit for a lot of good things this season and I have no problem with her being on the short list for coach of the year. But if her team falls in the first weekend again, the season will be a disappointment IMO.

I think Kellie is smart enough to know she was hired because of her name, and not necessarily merit. I also think a lot of what you saw in the show was for the benefit of Lady Vol fans who predictably lapped it up, longing to see their next Pat... a comparison Kellie hasn't exactly discouraged. The fans, in turn, predictably blow up social media which will hopefully give a much-needed boost to recruiting. Well played, Kellie...

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Kellie hasn’t been here very long, and the circumstances have been unusual, losing players for one reason or another, and Covid restrictions. She won the Missouri Valley Conference Championship, and Coach of the Year, and took a mid-major team to the Sweet Sixteen, an impressive accomplishment, and is one of only two people to take teams from four different schools to the NCAA Tournament, she’s won some things, not counting her three National Championships as a Tennessee player.

Not that she would have won a Championship in her first year here, but the 2020 NCAA Tournament was cancelled, so this year will be only her second opportunity to take our team to the NCAA Championship Tournament. Even a great Coach needs time to rebuild teams and win Championships.

We agree. I'm speaking in terms of the eyes of elite recruits. To them, she hasn't won anything impressive yet. The things you mentioned I often mention to urge others to give her a fair chance to succeed or fail at UT. But an elite recruit is not gonna care very much about her coaching record before she got here. They're gonna wanna know - What have you won while at Tennessee?

 

[lvocd]

I thought Sharrona was a terrific staffer, too, but I definitely felt like a total clean break was necessary to send the message that the program was beginning a new era. ANY holdover, even of a great staffer, could have made some people worry that the past wasn't REALLY in the past.

There was zero chance any of the returning players would have to interact with a living reminder of the painful past every day. They got a totally fresh start, and I think it was good for morale.

 

[WBO]

Yes, it is certainly reasonable to expect Kellie-- a third-year coach who was hired late in the recruiting cycle of her first year and who has had to cope with Covid disruptions-- to be recruiting at the level of Stanford and Tara van Deveer.

My original post basically said I was concerned about her recruiting long term but jury was still out.

The post you replied to was in response to someone saying you don't need 4-5 star recruits if you coach them up.

I agree, it's too early to evaluate her recruiting.

 

[glv98]

This season, we are seeing more upsets or games where unranked teams push ranked ones the limit. #9 Michigan recently lost to unranked MIchigan St., Arizona has had some close games to unranked PAC 10 opponents and so on.. Many people have been predicting that a higher level of parity would be coming to WCBB and I think it is finally happening. The transfer portal is really facilitating that. High ranked recruits are going to elite programs and then transferring to other often lower ranked schools where they can have more impact.

Shows what I know, which is nothing. I thought the portal would have the opposite effect with the best players from lower ranked teams transferring to elite teams causing a pooling at the top of the best talent. Glad the pipeline went the other way. Sure hope it works this offseason for the LVs.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Be careful, there are many that want to ban free speech on this site.

Speech can be banned on any private site, and is routinely banned on many social media sites. Misinformation, hate speech, or over the top nastiness can be monitored and banned by private sites, as defined by those sites. That is NOT a denial of free speech in the constitutional sense.

 

[madtownvol]

My original post basically said I was concerned about her recruiting long term but jury was still out.

The post you replied to was in response to someone saying you don't need 4-5 star recruits if you coach them up.

I agree, it's too early to evaluate her recruiting.

Ah, got it. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I will say this in the spirit of being more on topic. I do think coaching can make a difference (as does everyone) but yes, all things being equal, higher caliber players will make for more success. The one caveat is that the ranking services are not always the best guide. Or stated conversely, the strategy for success is also not just winning top 5 recruits but identifying players who, for various reasons, have not gotten recognition or are undervalued by the ranking services. I do think that is what Kellie is aiming for in terms of building a team that is cohesive and can win through effort and commitment. She is betting that someone like Miles can from being a 3 star recruit to an all SEC player or better by her junior or senior year. Time will tell if that approach can pay off.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Yes, it is certainly reasonable to expect Kellie-- a third-year coach who was hired late in the recruiting cycle of her first year and who has had to cope with Covid disruptions-- to be recruiting at the level of Stanford and Tara van Deveer.

Blue font?

 

[madtownvol]

Speech can be banned on any private site, and is routinely banned on many social media sites. Misinformation, hate speech, or over the top nastiness can be monitored and banned by private sites, as defined by those sites. That is NOT a denial of free speech in the constitutional sense.

Thanks for fighting the good fight. I have given up trying to explain that distinction (i.e. a private message board with clear rules of conduct is not a free speech zone).

What I find interesting about the folks who complain that their "free speech" is being oppressed are complaining about other people disagreeing with them. That is a very egocentric view of free speech. I get to say whatever I but if you speak in ways that disagree with, or criticize me, then YOU are impeding MY free speech and must cease your disagreeable speech.

 

[madtownvol]

Blue font?

I don't believe in blue font........

 

[youcancallmeAl]

I think Kellie is smart enough to know she was hired because of her name, and not necessarily merit.

Ridiculous.

I also think a lot of what you saw in the show was for the benefit of Lady Vol fans who predictably lapped it up, longing to see their next Pat... a comparison Kellie hasn't exactly discouraged. .

False. Kellie has routinely discouraged comparisons of her to Pat. Chewing out a team at halftime is not unique to Pat Summitt or any other coach. If fans see Pat in that scene, that's their doing and not Kellie's. Accusin her of a deliberate acting job, not being herself but imitating someone else, for whatever purpose, is bizarre.

 

[madtownvol]

Ridiculous.


False. Kellie has routinely discouraged comparisons of her to Pat. Chewing out a team at halftime is not unique to Pat Summitt or any other coach. If fans see Pat in that scene, that's their doing and not Kellie's. Accusin her of a deliberate acting job, not being herself but imitating someone else, for whatever purpose, is bizarre.

The irony of Elvee/Darth accusing someone else of "putting on an act" is just too rich.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

We agree. I'm speaking in terms of the eyes of elite recruits. To them, she hasn't won anything impressive yet. The things you mentioned I often mention to urge others to give her a fair chance to succeed or fail at UT. But an elite recruit is not gonna care very much about her coaching record before she got here. They're gonna wanna know - What have you won while at Tennessee?

3 National Championships as a player at Tennessee. Not many can say such a thing, and it is impressive. Before Keyen’s injury, Tennessee was ranked #4 in the AP, and was in Final Four conversations, in Kellie’s third year here, totally unexpected and impressive.

So while one talks about possible failing and hasn’t won anything, jury still out, they’re winning, but she hasn’t gotten the recruits I want, etc., even with the wins and improvement by the team and being included in championship conversations by many, it’s just a way of casting doubt, usually by someone who wanted a different Coach. The setting of winning championship expectations so early in her tenure are just ways of saying, see everyone, she didn’t win what I told you to expect she should.

Is the requirement of winning an SEC Conference Championship this early in her career as Tennessee’s Coach necessary to be deemed a good hire? No. Is it reasonable or just a way to criticize.