Josh Dobbs will fundamentally redefine the quarterback position at Tennessee if . . .

[jlindsa4]

And... I cited specific examples of similar QBs over the past 40 years. You're the one sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "wahhhh I can't hear you. I can't hear you. Negavol!" And extrapolating possibly 1,000 yards rushing after 7 quarters of football.

P.S. - and Triple H is already the Cerebral Assassin.

Wow grow up.

 

[GAVol]

Wow grow up.

I can't grow up. Otherwise it might dawn on me that I'm wasting my time here.

 

[Boca Vol]

Which one of those QBs holds the record for the most yards ran in a game? I be you could say that person might redefine the QB position if he holds the record. I wonder who that guy is?

See below.

lol...if Jalen Hurd scores 6 TD's in a game at some point in his career breaking the single game record (5 TD's) that Gene McEver's held since the 1929 South Carolina game, will he too be redefining the RB position at UT?

This. A single-game record has nothing to do with long-term results. Did Kelly Washing re-define the WR position at UT? I don't think so.

Also, did anyone consider Streater re-defining the QB position at UT? Afterall, he held the record until last Sat. night and I'm willing to bet half of the posters on here had never heard of him.

I like what I'm seeing in Dobbs so far this season, but I wish fans would just let it play out before annointing him the next ______________. That's not going to happen, though.

 

[TennesseeT]

They were running QBs that started at Tennessee at one time or another. Just pointing out that it's not a new concept.

I understand that, but they were both busts that really don't support your argument that dual action QB's have flourished here. Better to have left them off the list, especially Banks. Dude only threw a few dozen times.

 

[Remy]

Dobbs is still a very young man, he's only a little over a year from playing in high school. He certainly has a lot of tools, gives us a great chance to win, but let's really get behind this kid. He's going to make a few mistakes, he won't have a record setting performance every time he steps on the field. My ask is simply what I required of myself as an amateur player and coach in youth sports, build him up, don't knock him down. Get behind him no matter what, pull for this kid if he throws a critical pick, cheer for this kid if he ends up shy of a 1st down by inches, tell him "get 'em next time" if he overthrows an open receiver, just get behind this youngster and he'll get the Big Orange to the promised land.

 

[Boca Vol]

I understand that, but they were both busts that really don't support your argument that dual action QB's have flourished here. Better to have left them off the list, especially Banks. Dude only threw a few dozen times.

It's been 1.5 games. I hope he's the answer but the sample size is too small at the moment.

I'm sure that after the UNLV in 2004, there were a ton of Schaeffer worshipers.

 

[jlindsa4]

I can't grow up. Otherwise it might dawn on me that I'm wasting my time here.

Hahaha !! Amen. Amen. same here man

 

[WiseOlVol]

All you have to know is that if you don't have a Dual Threat QB, no matter how good your OLine is you lack a dimension that dilutes the opponent's D. It might win us only 1 game a year (e.g., Florida 2014), but there are enough Dual Threat QBs out there that we ought to have one or two on hand from now on. As I've said here often, if Brent Schaeffer had stayed in school, Fulmer would still be the HC and he'd have started running the spread 10 years ago.

 

[butchna]

All you have to know is that if you don't have a Dual Threat QB, no matter how good your OLine is you lack a dimension that dilutes the opponent's D. It might win us only 1 game a year (e.g., Florida 2014), but there are enough Dual Threat QBs out there that we ought to have one or two on hand from now on. As I've said here often, if Brent Schaeffer had stayed in school, Fulmer would still be the HC and he'd have started running the spread 10 years ago.

Brent Schaeffer was a failure and did cost ORGERON his job after that wagon was hitched at Ole Miss.

 

[jlindsa4]

See below.



This. A single-game record has nothing to do with long-term results. Did Kelly Washing re-define the WR position at UT? I don't think so.

Also, did anyone consider Streater re-defining the QB position at UT? Afterall, he held the record until last Sat. night and I'm willing to bet half of the posters on here had never heard of him.

I like what I'm seeing in Dobbs so far this season, but I wish fans would just let it play out before annointing him the next ______________. That's not going to happen, though.

True, but it may be an indicator of the kids potential. Also a lot of posters have commented that there really hasnt been a QB at UT where they designed running plays specifically for said QB. Since that happened vs. SC, that is pretty indicative of a redefining role at our program. Nevertheless you can disagree, but I feel like defending OP so much because he had a lot of supporting evidence. I thought it was convincing. Just me. You can disagree if you want. I just think that with all the evidence he mounted, its almost impossible to make any claim on here without half the board disagreeing with you... even though there is several valid arguments by OP for support that Dobbs is setting a redefining pace for the QB position at UT.

 

[Boca Vol]

Were you a fan in 1992? Shuler was a DT QB in 1992. In fact, go back to the UF game in 1991 and you'll see Shuler in at QB on the goal line. In 1993, Shuler was more of a pro-style QB. That transition really began after the Bama game in '92 when he took a beating.

Now, a lot of what the OP is talking about has to do with coaching philosophy vs. a player being revolutionary. I'm sure UT has has DT or wishbone QB's on their roster that never saw the field or converted to another position. Why? UT has pretty much ran a pro-style O. Again, it's coaching philosophy that's driving this bus.

Look at UF between 2005-2007. Chris Leak was the starting QB in 05-06. He wasn't Meyer's "type" of QB but he transitioned with him. Tebow fit the mold perfectly. 2 different QB's trying to run the same system.

 

[jlindsa4]

Were you a fan in 1992? Shuler was a DT QB in 1992. In fact, go back to the UF game in 1991 and you'll see Shuler in at QB on the goal line. In 1993, Shuler was more of a pro-style QB. That transition really began after the Bama game in '92 when he took a beating.

Now, a lot of what the OP is talking about has to do with coaching philosophy vs. a player being revolutionary. I'm sure UT has has DT or wishbone QB's on their roster that never saw the field or converted to another position. Why? UT has pretty much ran a pro-style O. Again, it's coaching philosophy that's driving this bus.

Look at UF between 2005-2007. Chris Leak was the starting QB in 05-06. He wasn't Meyer's "type" of QB but he transitioned with him. Tebow fit the mold perfectly. 2 different QB's trying to run the same system.

Okay

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

I don't understand why its so hard for us fans to just "let it play out." Dobbs has had 1.5 games with some really stellar play and its encouraging. But, this fan base is so starved for anything good that we are in very real danger of "crowning" this kid before its warranted. With the bar being set so high by a majority of this fan base and the MEDIA the only way for this kid may be down. I think that is one of the fears the staff may have. That we are setting him up to fail.

What if he plays very poorly these next three games and we lose two of the three and miss a bowl game? Or he makes a mistake or two that costs us a game? He goes from hero to goat. Could potentially destroy any possibility of him having the true potential to be successful here. Pressure is a mighty beast.

As we all know from our experiences here on volnation, a fan base can be a really cruel monster at times.

I'm excited about the potential he has and what that impact could have on our future. I'm also worried that it may be too much too soon.

 

[Boca Vol]

I don't understand why its so hard for us fans to just "let it play out." Dobbs has had 1.5 games with some really stellar play and its encouraging. But, this fan base is so starved for anything good that we are in very real danger of "crowning" this kid before its warranted. With the bar being set so high by a majority of this fan base and the MEDIA the only way for this kid may be down. I think that is one of the fears the staff may have. That we are setting him up to fail.

What if he plays very poorly these next three games and we lose two of the three and miss a bowl game? Or he makes a mistake or two that costs us a game? He goes from hero to goat. Could potentially destroy any possibility of him having the true potential to be successful here. Pressure is a mighty beast.

As we all know from our experiences here on volnation, a fan base can be a really cruel monster at times.

I'm excited about the potential he has and what that impact could have on our future. I'm also worried that it may be too much too soon.

A lot of truth here.

Look at the week between the Oregon game and UF game from 2013. When Butch announced Peterman was starting this place was popping champagne corks left and right. All because Peterman drove the team to a score against Oregon's 9th string.

Then what happened? Butch was an idiot. Peterman should transfer, etc.

 

[nash101]

If anything Andy Kelly and Peyton Manning redefined the QB position at UT after the Holloway / Streater years. Both styles can win, we just have to play to our strengths Hoping Dobbs can continue to improve and perform -- leading us to many wins

 

[DaddyChad]

I'm just afraid Dobbs can't live up to all the expectations at least not at this point. I think he is going to be a great one but we are writing the legend before his story has even started good. I'm just afraid that those that get too high on this kid before he has a chance to play a few games are going to crash after he has a down game. FWIW I hope we don't have to find out what happens when he has a bad game.

 

[GAVol]

I'm just afraid Dobbs can't live up to all the expectations at least not at this point. I think he is going to be a great one but we are writing the legend before his story has even started good. I'm just afraid that those that get too high on this kid before he has a chance to play a few games are going to crash after he has a down game. FWIW I hope we don't have to find out what happens when he has a bad game.

The good thing is that the competition level in November is way off from what it was over the past 6-7 weeks.

 

[VolDango]

Anybody got the cliff notes?

Amen. Ain't nobody got time for all this. Out after orange font.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

For you critics, let’s first take a cold, hard statistical look at the rushing totals of our five most productive mobile quarterbacks prior to Dobbs:

Condredge Holloway:

1972 123-266 (2.2 ypc) 3 tds.
1973 128-433 (3.4 ypc) 4 tds.
1974 100-267 (2.7 ypc) 2 tds.

Career 351-966 (2.8 ypc) 9 tds.

Jimmy Streater:

1976 5-7 (1.4 ypc) 0 tds.
1977 136-397 (2.9 ypc) 8 tds.
1978 146-593 (4.1 ypc) 10 tds.
1979 82-377 (4.6 ypc) 7 tds.

Career 369-1374 (3.7 ypc) 25 tds.

Tony Robinson:

1982 3- -4 (-1.3 ypc) 0 tds.
1983 9- -10 (-1.1 ypc) 0 tds.
1984 78-126 (1.6 ypc) 3 tds.
1985 44-75 (1.7 ypc) 1 td.

Career 134-187 (1.4 ypc) 4 tds.

Heath Shuler:

1991 7-24 (3.4 ypc) 0 tds.
1992 105-286 (2.7 ypc) 11 tds.
1993 46-73 (1.6 ypc) 3 tds.

Career 158-383 (2.4 ypc) 14 tds.

Tee Martin:

1996 12-14 (1.2 ypc) 0 tds.
1997 8 -4 (-0.5 ypc) 0 tds.
1998 103-287 (2.8 ypc) 7 tds.
1999 81-317 (3.9 ypc) 9 tds.

Career 204-614 (3.0 ypc) 16 tds.

All stats were excerpted from Tennessee Volunteers Index | College Football at Sports-Reference.com. Is there a discernible pattern here? Only Condredge Holloway in 1972-1973 and Jimmy Streater in 1977-1978 eclipsed 10 carries per game and that includes sacks. Only Holloway in 1973 and Streater in 1978 eclipsed 400 yards rushing.

To date, Dobbs has 241 yards on 43 carries (5.6 ypc) in only two games this season. That yardage figure surpasses the career total of Tony Robinson. If you count last year’s rushing stats (38-189), Josh has amassed 430 yards rushing on 81 carries in roughly 6.5 games. Again, that total surpasses career yardage for Shuler and Robinson. Josh will almost certainly surpass the career rushing total of Tee Martin by the end of this year, which, for Dobbs, still will signify only 9.5 games. If Dobbs was continuing to run the ball at the frequency he did so last year (roughly 8-9 carries per game), you could certainly make the argument that he is simply a more productive version of Streater and Holloway.

Will Dobbs continue to run the ball 21.5 times per game for the rest of his career at Tennessee? Hopefully not. SEC defenses have a bad habit of shortening the careers of quarterbacks who are utilized that heavily as ball carriers. Even if Dobbs should wind up averaging 12-15 carries per game for his career, he is on pace to post rushing stats that absolutely dwarf those of his predecessors. If you guys choose to ignore those statistical facts as a significant departure from the typical usage pattern of Tennessee quarterbacks as ball carriers, I can only say that you aren’t dumb but you are deliberately choosing to be deaf and blind to data. All of this comes full circle to the possibility of fundamentally redefining the quarterback position at Tennessee.

 

[BrierVol61]

Anybody got the cliff notes?

Dobbs fits Jones' system historically speaking . Ought to be rather good at it, doing what we haven't seen in these parts ever. (statistically)

 

[VolNExile]

And... I cited specific examples of similar QBs over the past 40 years. You're the one sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "wahhhh I can't hear you. I can't hear you. Negavol!" And extrapolating possibly 1,000 yards rushing after 7 quarters of football.

P.S. - and Triple H is already the Cerebral Assassin.

Hubert Horatio Humphrey?

 

[LA vol7]

With Dobbs at the helm, we do not even look like the same team. enough said.

 

[HARTUPM]

Anybody got the cliff notes?

I had to google contextualize to see if that was an actual real word:crazy:. I scanned through the OP's post and stopped there. :mf_surrender:

 

[vol66]

For you critics, let’s first take a cold, hard statistical look at the rushing totals of our five most productive mobile quarterbacks prior to Dobbs:

Condredge Holloway:

1972 123-266 (2.2 ypc) 3 tds.
1973 128-433 (3.4 ypc) 4 tds.
1974 100-267 (2.7 ypc) 2 tds.

Career 351-966 (2.8 ypc) 9 tds.

Jimmy Streater:

1976 5-7 (1.4 ypc) 0 tds.
1977 136-397 (2.9 ypc) 8 tds.
1978 146-593 (4.1 ypc) 10 tds.
1979 82-377 (4.6 ypc) 7 tds.

Career 369-1374 (3.7 ypc) 25 tds.

Tony Robinson:

1982 3- -4 (-1.3 ypc) 0 tds.
1983 9- -10 (-1.1 ypc) 0 tds.
1984 78-126 (1.6 ypc) 3 tds.
1985 44-75 (1.7 ypc) 1 td.

Career 134-187 (1.4 ypc) 4 tds.

Heath Shuler:

1991 7-24 (3.4 ypc) 0 tds.
1992 105-286 (2.7 ypc) 11 tds.
1993 46-73 (1.6 ypc) 3 tds.

Career 158-383 (2.4 ypc) 14 tds.

Tee Martin:

1996 12-14 (1.2 ypc) 0 tds.
1997 8 -4 (-0.5 ypc) 0 tds.
1998 103-287 (2.8 ypc) 7 tds.
1999 81-317 (3.9 ypc) 9 tds.

Career 204-614 (3.0 ypc) 16 tds.

All stats were excerpted from Tennessee Volunteers Index | College Football at Sports-Reference.com. Is there a discernible pattern here? Only Condredge Holloway in 1972-1973 and Jimmy Streater in 1977-1978 eclipsed 10 carries per game and that includes sacks. Only Holloway in 1973 and Streater in 1978 eclipsed 400 yards rushing.

To date, Dobbs has 241 yards on 43 carries (5.6 ypc) in only two games this season. That yardage figure surpasses the career total of Tony Robinson. If you count last year’s rushing stats (38-189), Josh has amassed 430 yards rushing on 81 carries in roughly 6.5 games. Again, that total surpasses career yardage for Shuler and Robinson. Josh will almost certainly surpass the career rushing total of Tee Martin by the end of this year, which, for Dobbs, still will signify only 9.5 games. If Dobbs was continuing to run the ball at the frequency he did so last year (roughly 8-9 carries per game), you could certainly make the argument that he is simply a more productive version of Streater and Holloway.

Will Dobbs continue to run the ball 21.5 times per game for the rest of his career at Tennessee? Hopefully not. SEC defenses have a bad habit of shortening the careers of quarterbacks who are utilized that heavily as ball carriers. Even if Dobbs should wind up averaging 12-15 carries per game for his career, he is on pace to post rushing stats that absolutely dwarf those of his predecessors. If you guys choose to ignore those statistical facts as a significant departure from the typical usage pattern of Tennessee quarterbacks as ball carriers, I can only say that you aren’t dumb but you are deliberately choosing to be deaf and blind to data. All of this comes full circle to the possibility of fundamentally redefining the quarterback position at Tennessee.

I'd like to start by saying I'm not a "critic". That said...

Josh Dobbs is running an option offense. The formation he's running that offense from is different from the formation Condredge Holloway ran the option offense from. Holloway took every snap from under center, Dobbs takes it from shotgun. When you're under center designed runs for the QB would be, QB Sneak, QB Draw (where he would drop back to pass and then run), and a sweep and obviously the option where he can hand it off (veer), keep it or pitch it.

For Dobbs, he has a draw, he could sweep, he could also have a power package with a lead back, and the option and instead of veer per se, there are several ways to have a triple option using motion for instance...

Back when Holloway played they didn't spread people out, you'd have two backs, maybe a TE or two all in the box and running against those defenses was a lot harder...just because of alignment.

Not to argue, but if you watch the film of Holloway I posted and imagine him in today's offense...that would have been wild to see.

I also watched Dobb's senior film and Worley's sophomore film from high school...Dobbs looks pretty much like he did in high school in terms of running the ball and Worley really didn't run much at all...so to me, there's no real surprise that Dobbs has performed like he has.

For me the surprise has been with his passing, which his accuracy was said to be not up to par, he's been better than what I thought he would be.

So for me it's a chicken/egg thing...you argue that Dobbs is transforming the QB position and I believe that the offense is designed to put the QB in the best possible scenario, which is to say, the transformation has more to do with what has happened x's and o's wise over the last couple of decades in high school and college football. While all of that was going on we were running a "pro-style" offense with Cut/Fulmer, Kiff/Chaney/Dooley Chaney....and guys like Butch/BJak were off learning from Rich Rod and the like.

I really enjoy watching Dobbs and it really does bring back memories for me...of Holloway and some of the others you mentioned.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

I'd like to start by saying I'm not a "critic". That said...

Josh Dobbs is running an option offense. The formation he's running that offense from is different from the formation Condredge Holloway ran the option offense from. Holloway took every snap from under center, Dobbs takes it from shotgun. When you're under center designed runs for the QB would be, QB Sneak, QB Draw (where he would drop back to pass and then run), and a sweep and obviously the option where he can hand it off (veer), keep it or pitch it.

For Dobbs, he has a draw, he could sweep, he could also have a power package with a lead back, and the option and instead of veer per se, there are several ways to have a triple option using motion for instance...

Back when Holloway played they didn't spread people out, you'd have two backs, maybe a TE or two all in the box and running against those defenses was a lot harder...just because of alignment.

Not to argue, but if you watch the film of Holloway I posted and imagine him in today's offense...that would have been wild to see.

I also watched Dobb's senior film and Worley's sophomore film from high school...Dobbs looks pretty much like he did in high school in terms of running the ball and Worley really didn't run much at all...so to me, there's no real surprise that Dobbs has performed like he has.

For me the surprise has been with his passing, which his accuracy was said to be not up to par, he's been better than what I thought he would be.

So for me it's a chicken/egg thing...you argue that Dobbs is transforming the QB position and I believe that the offense is designed to put the QB in the best possible scenario, which is to say, the transformation has more to do with what has happened x's and o's wise over the last couple of decades in high school and college football. While all of that was going on we were running a "pro-style" offense with Cut/Fulmer, Kiff/Chaney/Dooley Chaney....and guys like Butch/BJak were off learning from Rich Rod and the like.

I really enjoy watching Dobbs and it really does bring back memories for me...of Holloway and some of the others you mentioned.

I remember Condredge vividly and I agree wholeheartedly that his skillset was tailor-made to succeed superbly within the context of the wishbone which was then prevalent or the spread offenses of today. You are overstating my argument, however. I am not saying that Dobbs is revolutionizing the quarterback position within the larger context of college football, only that he is being utilized more extensively and more successfully as a ball-carrier (on a per-game and per-carry basis) than any previous Tennessee quarterback. That is what I mean by "fundamentally redefining the quarterback position at Tennessee."

The great irony is that Josh didn't run the ball nearly as much when he was in high school. "As a junior at Alpharetta (Ga.) High School, he ran for only 200 yards, opposed to 3,113 yards passing. It doubled as a senior, running for 419 yards, but still didn’t come close to matching his 3,625 yards passing. “My senior year I had a little bit, but I was definitely a pro-style quarterback,” Dobbs said. “A pocket passer.”

Dobbs does not indicate that much of his success running the ball is a deliberate manifestation of Butch Jones' offensive scheme. “I wouldn’t say they push me (to run),” Dobbs said. “Obviously we’ve had some designed quarterback runs, which have helped out our offense, added another element.”

Dobbs' decisions to run the ball may be highly intuitive but the manner in which he runs, fortunately, is quite calculated. “I keep my eyes up, just looking for different lanes, different cut backs,” Dobbs said. “My goal is to score a touchdown or get out of bounds, or just avoid being hit.” (For the rest of this article, see Tennessee's Josh Dobbs proving elusive only when necessary - The Daily Times: Sports.) Hopefully, that approach will be conducive to long-term success.