Jimbo looking like he’s trying to get fired.

#51

the_todd

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#51
Top 20 all-time CFB program, won a National Title this Century and played for another. Hell, they have been a lot stronger in the modern era than Tennessee and they have an ALL-TIME winning record against Tennessee.

There are 6 power programs in the SEC historically: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, and Tennessee. Out of those 6, Tennessee has been the weakest link and arguably the one that people say shouldn't be a power program (I still think we are).

Auburn can and has played for National Titles. Ole Miss hasn't. Auburn is a MAJOR step up from Ole Miss and there is precedence, Tommy Tubberville left Ole Miss for Auburn.

Actually they paid $180k for that NC
 
#53

Remy

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#53
Jimbo has them over a barrel, one that's full of money. It would take lots of guts for Bjork to fire Jimbo. He's seat is 🔥 but I think the gets another year. If his players hit the transfer portal then next year will be his last.
THIS!!! It's the problem pushing contracts with too many years attached to it. Pay them handsomely but stay away from guaranteed years and money beyond 1 or 2.
 
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#54

LouderVol

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#54
THIS!!! It's the problem pushing contracts with too many years attached to it. Pay them handsomely but stay away from guaranteed years and money beyond 1 or 2.
I would love to see contracts start getting smarter. Like even if you keep the 10 year contract, have it so only the next three years is guarenteed money. And it's a rolling three years, so you never "lose" the guarentee, and if you coach the whole time it's all guarenteed, but it keeps the buyout manageable.

The coach still gets the guarentee, a long contract, and a parachute if fired. The school gets out of having to pay off the back half of a bad contract while still locking down a coach.
 
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#55

Allvols1996

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#55
Just for reference to my last post, here are the numbers Gray put up the last 4 games for OU:
25 car 211 yds 8.4 2 td
23 106 4.6 2
20 101 5.1 1
20 176 8.8 2

For the season, Gray is carried the ball 165 times for 1113 yds, and 10 TDs, averaging 111.3 rushing yards per game.

I'm not here to defend the guys who left, but Gray has been anything but disappointing this year for Okie.
Yes, he had a hell of an individual, and no question he’s better than Small or Wright.
But, Oklahoma is having their worst season in over 20 years.
 
#56

Firebirdparts

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#56
THIS!!! It's the problem pushing contracts with too many years attached to it. Pay them handsomely but stay away from guaranteed years and money beyond 1 or 2.
Extending a guaranteed 10 year contract is basically just insane. That's part of what makes it so embarrassing. Jimbo went to A&M in 2018 and today it's still got 9 years to go counting this year. They extended a 10 year contract in year 3. Just stupid. If $75 million isn't enough to keep you home, then leave. Now, due to their brilliance, it's $100 million.

Glad it ain't my money.
 
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#57

Godfatha

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#57
Extending a guaranteed 10 year contract is basically just insane. That's part of what makes it so embarrassing. Jimbo went to A&M in 2018 and today it's still got 9 years to go counting this year. They extended a 10 year contract in year 2. Just stupid. If $75 million isn't enough to keep you home, then leave. Now, due to their brilliance, it's $100 million.

Glad it ain't my money.
Doubt anyone will be beating down the door to take Jimbo Fisher away from A&M. They'll be dumb if they extend.

JImbo is close enough to retirement that he probably doesn't care whether he gets his retirement now or has to work a couple more years for it.
 
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#59

SayUWantAreVOLution

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#59
Extending a guaranteed 10 year contract is basically just insane. That's part of what makes it so embarrassing. Jimbo went to A&M in 2018 and today it's still got 9 years to go counting this year. They extended a 10 year contract in year 3. Just stupid. If $75 million isn't enough to keep you home, then leave. Now, due to their brilliance, it's $100 million.

Glad it ain't my money.
We'll surely raise Heupel to around $7M/yr after this season with a 2 year extension or so. If Oklahoma shows up in 2025, after they're in the SEC, and drops $9M/yr guaranteed at his feet..... should we let him walk and not match it?
 
#60

VAVol85

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#60
I would love to see contracts start getting smarter. Like even if you keep the 10 year contract, have it so only the next three years is guarenteed money. And it's a rolling three years, so you never "lose" the guarentee, and if you coach the whole time it's all guarenteed, but it keeps the buyout manageable.

The coach still gets the guarentee, a long contract, and a parachute if fired. The school gets out of having to pay off the back half of a bad contract while still locking down a coach.
Wish I could like this more than once. Pay extravagantly for success but avoid paying for failure. No coach needs a $90 million buyout to make sure his family doesn’t go hungry if he gets fired.

Hopefully White and Heupel can agree on something that richly rewards Heupel for what he has done without assuming the results will be the same forever.
 
#62

SayUWantAreVOLution

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#62
Wish I could like this more than once. Pay extravagantly for success but avoid paying for failure. No coach needs a $90 million buyout to make sure his family doesn’t go hungry if he gets fired.

Hopefully White and Heupel can agree on something that richly rewards Heupel for what he has done without assuming the results will be the same forever.
I bristle at "no coach needs a $90M buyout" because...... Welcome to America.

No one, except the market, decided what coaches get paid and the notion of "no <worker> needs <whatever money the market is paying>" begs the question: Who decides what people can get paid in America if not the market?

I certainly don't want anyone except the market to decide what I can get paid, how about you?
 
#63

VAVol85

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#63
I hear what you are saying and agree. I did not suggest outside entities should limit salaries or terms. I am saying that if I am on the other side of the table and a coach making 8 million per year tells me he needs a 10-year contract for “job security”, I am going to say no. I would be more inclined to offer bigger money for a shorter term or bonuses to award success.
 
#64

CR-vol

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#64
I would love to see contracts start getting smarter. Like even if you keep the 10 year contract, have it so only the next three years is guarenteed money. And it's a rolling three years, so you never "lose" the guarentee, and if you coach the whole time it's all guarenteed, but it keeps the buyout manageable.

The coach still gets the guarentee, a long contract, and a parachute if fired. The school gets out of having to pay off the back half of a bad contract while still locking down a coach.
Until we live in a world where head coaches have no leverage contracts will always be ridiculously one sided golden parachutes. Doubtful we will ever see a world like that. Fact is there's a limited supply of good head coaches and they're all making a king's ransom. Which serves to prop up pay/contracts for all the average and mediocre ones.
 
#65

SayUWantAreVOLution

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#65
I hear what you are saying and agree. I did not suggest outside entities should limit salaries or terms. I am saying that if I am on the other side of the table and a coach making 8 million per year tells me he needs a 10-year contract for “job security”, I am going to say no. I would be more inclined to offer bigger money for a shorter term or bonuses to award success.
And he'll walk to a team that will. Money is ruling the college game now for the schools via TV contracts, to the players via what schools offer the big NIL deals, to what schools are willing to pay an elite coach.

I'd rather not see Heupel walk because he can't get both the guaranteed money and amount of money another school is offering. If you want a specific coach...... and I think we do...... you'll pay and structure the contract to what the market is paying.
 
#66

stolitonic

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#66
In 2017 Florida State had a dismal season. Their game with UL-M got postponed due to a hurricane, normally what would happen is FSU would have simply paid UL-M off and both schools would have moved on. However Florida State had to play this game in order to become bowl elligible so they wound up playing it the week when conferences were having their championship games. Why A&M thought to bring Jimbo in after a season that ended this way is puzzling enough and then to attach an insane amount of money to it is even more so. In fact, I think it is a more puzzling move than Tennessee bringing in Dooley after having several losing seasons at Louisiana Tech.
Apples and oranges.

Dools was a panic hire. No more no less. No coach worth is salt (including Kiffin) would be bolting at that particular time period. I'm sure some people wanted to take the job, but couldn't "right then". We roll with an interim for a year and then retool the next off-season. Instead, Hammy panicked and set in motion the worst decade in UT football history.

Jimbo, A&M targeted him. He was their first and only choice. Screw him, them, and their cult. Wouldn't shed a tear if they never win another game.
 
#67

SayUWantAreVOLution

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#67
Apples and oranges.

Dools was a panic hire. No more no less. No coach worth is salt (including Kiffin) would be bolting at that particular time period. I'm sure some people wanted to take the job, but couldn't "right then". We roll with an interim for a year and then retool the next off-season. Instead, Hammy panicked and set in motion the worst decade in UT football history.

Jimbo, A&M targeted him. He was their first and only choice. Screw him, them, and their cult. Wouldn't shed a tear if they never win another game.
The craziness of aTm to give Jimbo that extension shows what a truly weird place College Station is. That they're at the bottom of the SEC now is poetic justice because they were proclaiming an NIL and coaching dynasty after beating Bama.

I hope the transfer portal is burning up with aTm refugees in the off season and they pay off Jimbo and then whiff on whomever they go after.
 
#68

VAVol85

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#68
And he'll walk to a team that will. Money is ruling the college game now for the schools via TV contracts, to the players via what schools offer the big NIL deals, to what schools are willing to pay an elite coach.

I'd rather not see Heupel walk because he can't get both the guaranteed money and amount of money another school is offering. If you want a specific coach...... and I think we do...... you'll pay and structure the contract to what the market is paying.
I would be concerned about a coach that puts a higher premium on guaranteed money than on pay for performance.

I think the market for coaches is currently in a phase of “irrational exuberance”.
 
#69

SayUWantAreVOLution

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#69
I would be concerned about a coach that puts a higher premium on guaranteed money than on pay for performance.

I think the market for coaches is currently in a phase of “irrational exuberance”.
Agreed, but here we are. Given the market conditions and the evil magician that Jimmy Sexton is, if I were a coach I'd want BOTH performance incentives and guaranteed money.

There's very very very few elite level coaches so it's like pro sports contracts: the iron is hot, my time here is limited, I'm taking all the money.
 
#70

LouderVol

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#70
Wish I could like this more than once. Pay extravagantly for success but avoid paying for failure. No coach needs a $90 million buyout to make sure his family doesn’t go hungry if he gets fired.

Hopefully White and Heupel can agree on something that richly rewards Heupel for what he has done without assuming the results will be the same forever.
I mean if both sides didnt agree to the terms they shouldnt have signed it. Afterwards they have to uphold it.
 
#71

05_never_again

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#71
Agreed, but here we are. Given the market conditions and the evil magician that Jimmy Sexton is, if I were a coach I'd want BOTH performance incentives and guaranteed money.

There's very very very few elite level coaches so it's like pro sports contracts: the iron is hot, my time here is limited, I'm taking all the money.
The thing that gets me isn't the salary level itself. If they're successful, the high salaries are totally worth it. I even can understand the buyouts. I understand how the coach has more leverage in these negotiations. Supply is limited, demand is high, and most CFB coaches are eventually fired at some point, even ones who had been successful in the past. Very few get to leave on their own terms. I see why they want guaranteed income.

However, what I don't understand is why ADs aren't able to secure contracts with coaches that are more incentive-laden. Say you're the AD at a big football school. If your coach wins a conference title, or makes a CFP, or wins a national title, pay that coach $10-12m that season. The coach is incredibly incentivized to win, and the school only has to pay the enormous salary if the coach produces (and brings in a ton of money). It's a win-win. For pretty good seasons, pay him $5-6m. For poor seasons, pay him a base of something like $2-3m. To throw him a bone as far as guaranteed income, offer to buy him out at 100% of the remaining base amount in the event of a without cause firing. So the contract is "fully guaranteed," but only at the base amount. Structure it like the salary for a salesperson in the corporate world.

A contract drawn up like that seems totally reasonable to me, but it seems like none are drawn up like that. The overwhelming majority of these coach's incomes are in the base salary. Make it really worth a coach's while to win some hardware, and if you're talking to a coach who doesn't like that model, you probably don't want him anyway.
 
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#72

Fightmaker

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#72
I bristle at "no coach needs a $90M buyout" because...... Welcome to America.

No one, except the market, decided what coaches get paid and the notion of "no <worker> needs <whatever money the market is paying>" begs the question: Who decides what people can get paid in America if not the market?

I certainly don't want anyone except the market to decide what I can get paid, how about you?
I’m with you on your opinion, and this is all on A&M to pay for. I do think every other school is going to use this as an example to stop offering guaranteed buyouts for insane sums though.
 

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