Jalen Hurd drafted by the Niners

VFFL@THE BEACH

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Look, we all understand that you hate Hurd. You are letting your emotions get in the way of better judgment. This is not a good look for you or the our fan base.

Most of us are not happy with the way he left but if you can take a step back, you can understand why he left. Maybe not the manner but the why.
 

hndog609

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Unless the numbers are really big career rushing is a participation trophy. Stay healthy and get the carries, boom, you get the yards. For instance nothing against Vandy's Ralph Webb but the only reason he and his 4.5ypc (same as Hurd's) got so high on the SEC career rushing total is he had 931 carries. Errict Rhett is is above both Emmitt Smith and Fred Taylor in career totals but is anybody going to argue he belongs in the same breath as those two? Barry Sanders isn't even in OKSt's top 5 in career rushing FFS.

When you include bowl stats (lots of people forget "normal" NCAA numbers don't include those before '02) we have real uber talents like these guys:

Webb 265/1642-6.2ypc
Garner 339/2227-6.6
Lewis 509/2788-5.5
Let's pause to reflect on Jamal's injury. His last year coming off a knee injury he wasn't 100% and some argue was playing "not to get hurt". In any case before that he had 305/1861-6.1ypc

Now imagine for a moment if all those guys had put in full careers at UT and what our career record would look like. Webb and Lewis both had major injuries and Garner was a JUCO sharing the backfield with James Stewart, Aaron Hayden and Mose Phillips. It's a "quality over quantity" thing.

Still the greatest hurdle for Hurd's RB legacy is other players on his own team. Sitting on the same bench as Hurd's 4.5ypc was Kamara's 6.2ypc. In 2016 behind the same infamously horrible line that had Hurd averaging 3.7ypc Kamara and Kelly combined for 201c/1226y at 6.1ypc. He then went to Baylor where he also ran the ball. His 4.4ypc were bested by stablemates with at least as many carries to the clip of 5.3, 5.3 and 6.0ypc.

I am not of the opinion Hurd was as bad as some say but I've never seen any reason to argue he was the best RB on his own team, nevermind be in consideration for best among the program's history. He chose very wisely in converting to WR IMHO.
 
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BigOrangeTrain

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Look, we all understand that you hate Hurd. You are letting your emotions get in the way of better judgment. This is not a good look for you or the our fan base.

Most of us are not happy with the way he left but if you can take a step back, you can understand why he left. Maybe not the manner but the why.
Sorry but the numbers don’t lie. I know we all Vol fans like to think we have had some really great RBs but have we really? Have we ever really had a RB like Henry, Ingram, Swift, Chubb, Michel, McFadden, Walker, Jackson or Fournette? Would Hurd breaking the all time rushing mark at TN been that great? Like I said his numbers don’t lie. He was average at RB.
 

BigOrangeTrain

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Unless the numbers are really big career rushing is a participation trophy. Stay healthy and get the carries, boom, you get the yards. For instance nothing against Vandy's Ralph Webb but the only reason he and his 4.5ypc (same as Hurd's) got so high on the SEC career rushing total is he had 931 carries. Errict Rhett is is above both Emmitt Smith and Fred Taylor in career totals but is anybody going to argue he belongs in the same breath as those two? Barry Sanders isn't even in OKSt's top 5 in career rushing FFS.

When you include bowl stats (lots of people forget "normal" NCAA numbers don't include those before '02) we have real uber talents like these guys:

Webb 265/1642-6.2ypc
Garner 339/2227-6.6
Lewis 509/2788-5.5
Let's pause to reflect on Jamal's injury. His last year coming off a knee injury he wasn't 100% and some argue was playing "not to get hurt". In any case before that he had 305/1861-6.35ypc

Now imagine for a moment if all those guys had put in full careers at UT and what our career record would look like. Webb and Lewis both had major injuries and Garner was a JUCO sharing the backfield with James Stewart, Aaron Hayden and Mose Phillips. It's a "quality over quantity" thing.

Still the greatest hurdle for Hurd's RB legacy is other players on his own team. Sitting on the same bench as Hurd's 4.5ypc was Kamara's 6.2ypc. In 2016 behind the same infamously horrible line that had Hurd averaging 3.7ypc Kamara and Kelly combined for 201c/1226y at 6.1ypc. He then went to Baylor where he also ran the ball. His 4.4ypc were bested by stablemates with at least as many carries to the clip of 5.3, 5.3 and 6.0ypc.

I am not of the opinion Hurd was as bad as some say but I've never seen any reason to argue he was the best RB on his own team, nevermind be in consideration for best among the program's history. He chose very wisely in converting to WR IMHO.
I don’t think Hurd was anything close to bad. I just think he was average. A good back but nothing really special.
 
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BeardedVol

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Sorry but the numbers don’t lie. I know we all Vol fans like to think we have had some really great RBs but have we really? Have we ever really had a RB like Henry, Ingram, Swift, Chubb, Michel, McFadden, Walker, Jackson or Fournette? Would Hurd breaking the all time rushing mark at TN been that great? Like I said his numbers don’t lie. He was average at RB.
Lol...dude seriously...the numbers don't lie, that's what you are going to go with to justify calling Hurd "average"?

Do you consider Arian Foster average as well?

Just to refresh your memory:

Foster 4 seasons, 47 games, 650 attempts, 2964 yards, 4.6 YPC, 23 TDs
Hurd 2.5 seasons, 33 games, 589 attempts, 2635 yards, 4.5 YPC, 20 TDs
 

BigOrangeTrain

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Unless the numbers are really big career rushing is a participation trophy. Stay healthy and get the carries, boom, you get the yards. For instance nothing against Vandy's Ralph Webb but the only reason he and his 4.5ypc (same as Hurd's) got so high on the SEC career rushing total is he had 931 carries. Errict Rhett is is above both Emmitt Smith and Fred Taylor in career totals but is anybody going to argue he belongs in the same breath as those two? Barry Sanders isn't even in OKSt's top 5 in career rushing FFS.

When you include bowl stats (lots of people forget "normal" NCAA numbers don't include those before '02) we have real uber talents like these guys:

Webb 265/1642-6.2ypc
Garner 339/2227-6.6
Lewis 509/2788-5.5
Let's pause to reflect on Jamal's injury. His last year coming off a knee injury he wasn't 100% and some argue was playing "not to get hurt". In any case before that he had 305/1861-6.35ypc

Now imagine for a moment if all those guys had put in full careers at UT and what our career record would look like. Webb and Lewis both had major injuries and Garner was a JUCO sharing the backfield with James Stewart, Aaron Hayden and Mose Phillips. It's a "quality over quantity" thing.

Still the greatest hurdle for Hurd's RB legacy is other players on his own team. Sitting on the same bench as Hurd's 4.5ypc was Kamara's 6.2ypc. In 2016 behind the same infamously horrible line that had Hurd averaging 3.7ypc Kamara and Kelly combined for 201c/1226y at 6.1ypc. He then went to Baylor where he also ran the ball. His 4.4ypc were bested by stablemates with at least as many carries to the clip of 5.3, 5.3 and 6.0ypc.

I am not of the opinion Hurd was as bad as some say but I've never seen any reason to argue he was the best RB on his own team, nevermind be in consideration for best among the program's history. He chose very wisely in converting to WR IMHO.
I don’t think Hurd was anything close to bad. I just think he was average. A good back but nothing really special.
Lol...dude seriously...the numbers don't lie, that's what you are going to go with to justify calling Hurd "average"?

Do you consider Arian Foster average as well?

Just to refresh your memory:

Foster 4 seasons, 47 games, 650 attempts, 2964 yards, 4.6 YPC, 23 TDs
Hurd 2.5 seasons, 33 games, 589 attempts, 2635 yards, 4.5 YPC, 20 TDs
Foster had 1 year of double digit TDS. Foster was good. As was Hurd. Just nothing really special. Why do you think Fosters or Hurds numbers are so great?
 

BeardedVol

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I don’t think Hurd was anything close to bad. I just think he was average. A good back but nothing really special.


Foster had 1 year of double digit TDS. Foster was good. As was Hurd. Just nothing really special. Why do you think Fosters or Hurds numbers are so great?
Foster had 9 100 yard games in his career, is currently 2nd for most rushing yards, and often listed in the top 5-10 RB's of all time at UT, depending on how far back you want to go in ranking.

So yeah, not just me. Hurd, had he played all of 2016 and 2017, would have ended his career with with the most rushing yards by several hundred, and somewhere north of 25 touchdowns putting him at the least in the top 10 in rushing touchdowns.

What he did in 2.5 seasons, was just a slight bit above average, no matter how mad you are at him for the way he left the team.
 
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VFFL@THE BEACH

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Sorry but the numbers don’t lie. I know we all Vol fans like to think we have had some really great RBs but have we really? Have we ever really had a RB like Henry, Ingram, Swift, Chubb, Michel, McFadden, Walker, Jackson or Fournette? Would Hurd breaking the all time rushing mark at TN been that great? Like I said his numbers don’t lie. He was average at RB.
Yes, I would take Jamal Lewis, Web, Cobb, Henry, Foster, Graham, Stephens, and Johnny Freakin Majors against any of those guys you listed. Of course, not all of your list is from one team but I am making the point that Tennessee as a whole has had great running backs, spanning decades.

Battered vols syndrome is alive and well among us. Hopefully, this season will heal some of VBS.
 

MikeVol44

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CAREER YPC STATS against top 50 defenses:
ALL DATA was gathered from College Football Statistics and History | College Football at Sports-Reference.com and accessed today.
If you have a problem with how they ranked the Defenses--take that up with the HOST of the website.

HURD (2014--2016) 400 carries for 1729 yards at 4.3 YPC. (included 2014 UGA defense ranked #53 and giving up 4.1 YPC) over 21 games.

The VOLS played 14 games over the 2015 & 2016 seasons against teams RANKED in the TOP 50 based on YPC allowed.
HURD (2015 & 2016 top 50 Defenses) = 301 carries for 1306 yards at 4.3 YPC
KAMARA (2015 & 2016 top 50 Defenses) = 108 carries for 466 yards at 4.3 YPC

Well, N0W...to break it down a little further:

In 8 games AGAINST TOP 50 DEF IN 2015
HURD: 187 carries for 871 yards and 4.7 YPC
KAMARA: 62 carries for 280 yards and 4.5 YPC

In 6 games AGAINST TOP 50 DEF IN 2016
HURD: 114 carries for 435 yards and 3.8 YPC
KAMARA: 46 carries for 186 yards and 4.0 YPC.


I found that both RBs had 10+ carries in 4 GAMES against top 50 DEFENSES over those 2 seasons.
In those 4 games
:
HURD: 68 carries for 353 yards for 5.2 YPC
KAMARA: 54 carries for 281 yards for 5.2 YPC

That's as close as it gets between these two running backs with more than 10 carries per game against the TOP 50 DEFENSES on the schedule.

2015: 5 games against teams with Defenses ranked 63+ in terms of YPC allowed:
Hurd: 90 carries for 414 yards at 4.6 YPC
Kamara: 45 carries for 418 yards at 9.3 YPC

There were 2 of those 5 games where each RB had 10+ carries:
HURD: 38 carries for 195 yards at 5.1 YPC
KAMARA: 30 carries for 271 yards at 9.0 YPC.

2016: 6 games against teams with DEFENSES RANKED 65+ in terms of YPC allowed:
HURD carried the ball 8 times in only one of those games before quitting: USCe (#93 on the list) 8 times for 16 yards.
KAMARA missed the USCe game after being injured in the 1st half of the Alabama game.

KAMARA: 57 carries for 410 yards at 7.2 YPC
KELLY: 85 carries for 500 yards at 5.9 YPC

SPEAKING OF JOHN KELLY--

IN 10 games over the 2016-2017 seasons against TOP 50 DEFENSES in terms of YPC allowed:

JOHN KELLY had 123 carries for 475 yards at 3.9 YPC (I included 2017 Fla defense even though they were ranked #58 and gave up 4.2 YPC).

IN 10 games over 2016-2017 against DEFENSES RANKED 65+ in terms of YPC allowed:

KELLY: 157 carries for 829 yards at 5.3 YPC.


So--there are the numbers. I attempted to put the excel spreadsheet up in the post but I'm too dumb to figure out how to do it.


There's NO REAL DEBATE here.
HURD and KAMARA were pretty equal against the better defenses----with HURD taking the brunt of the beatings in terms in # of carries.
That sure PROVES how durable and tough HURD was at UT.
HURD sure wasn't "sexy" running the ball---but he was effective and durable. And HE SUFFERED for it physically.

Kamara definitely broke more long runs than Hurd did. He just did it against inferior competition.
Kamara averaged about 8 carries per game against the tougher Defenses--and just a little over 9 against the weaker defenses.

Jones and his crew were just plain 'ol stupid NOT TO SHARE the LOAD between these two very good RBs.
And they should've kept KAMARA on the field in the slot while he wasn't lining up at RB.

So, in the end, all of the noise made on here about how much BETTER KAMARA was than HURD is just a bunch of plain 'ol YAK MANURE.
 

KBVol

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Hurd was average to below average at TN. Thats it. The numbers reinforce that.
Correct. Averaged an anemic, embarrassing 3.7 yards per carry in 2016.....behind the same OL that Kamara averaged 5.8 ypc and Kelly 6.4. He was literally the worst starting running back in the SEC his last year here.

Averaged 4.5 ypc for his career....that’s not good, at all, for a college running back. Hurd was tough, hard-nosed and gave great effort. He was also excellent in pass pro and he was excellent catching the ball out of the backfield, he just wasn’t really any more than an average SEC running back when it came to actually running the football. Can’t name any big, game-changing, explosive runs among his nearly 600 carries here. Only reason he finished as Tennessee’s 6th all-time leading these is because he’s #2 all-time in rushing attempts.
 

KBVol

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Unless the numbers are really big career rushing is a participation trophy. Stay healthy and get the carries, boom, you get the yards. For instance nothing against Vandy's Ralph Webb but the only reason he and his 4.5ypc (same as Hurd's) got so high on the SEC career rushing total is he had 931 carries. Errict Rhett is is above both Emmitt Smith and Fred Taylor in career totals but is anybody going to argue he belongs in the same breath as those two? Barry Sanders isn't even in OKSt's top 5 in career rushing FFS.

When you include bowl stats (lots of people forget "normal" NCAA numbers don't include those before '02) we have real uber talents like these guys:

Webb 265/1642-6.2ypc
Garner 339/2227-6.6
Lewis 509/2788-5.5
Let's pause to reflect on Jamal's injury. His last year coming off a knee injury he wasn't 100% and some argue was playing "not to get hurt". In any case before that he had 305/1861-6.1ypc

Now imagine for a moment if all those guys had put in full careers at UT and what our career record would look like. Webb and Lewis both had major injuries and Garner was a JUCO sharing the backfield with James Stewart, Aaron Hayden and Mose Phillips. It's a "quality over quantity" thing.

Still the greatest hurdle for Hurd's RB legacy is other players on his own team. Sitting on the same bench as Hurd's 4.5ypc was Kamara's 6.2ypc. In 2016 behind the same infamously horrible line that had Hurd averaging 3.7ypc Kamara and Kelly combined for 201c/1226y at 6.1ypc. He then went to Baylor where he also ran the ball. His 4.4ypc were bested by stablemates with at least as many carries to the clip of 5.3, 5.3 and 6.0ypc.

I am not of the opinion Hurd was as bad as some say but I've never seen any reason to argue he was the best RB on his own team, nevermind be in consideration for best among the program's history. He chose very wisely in converting to WR IMHO.
Hurd wasn’t a “bad” running back here. He was just very average his first 2 years and well below average his last year. As you said, he chose very wisely to move on to Baylor and switch positions. I think it’s gonna pay off big time for him and he’s gonna have a nice nfl career as a WR.....something he would not do if he had remained a running back.
 
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BigOrangeTrain

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CAREER YPC STATS against top 50 defenses:
ALL DATA was gathered from College Football Statistics and History | College Football at Sports-Reference.com and accessed today.
If you have a problem with how they ranked the Defenses--take that up with the HOST of the website.

HURD (2014--2016) 400 carries for 1729 yards at 4.3 YPC. (included 2014 UGA defense ranked #53 and giving up 4.1 YPC) over 21 games.

The VOLS played 14 games over the 2015 & 2016 seasons against teams RANKED in the TOP 50 based on YPC allowed.
HURD (2015 & 2016 top 50 Defenses) = 301 carries for 1306 yards at 4.3 YPC
KAMARA (2015 & 2016 top 50 Defenses) = 108 carries for 466 yards at 4.3 YPC

Well, N0W...to break it down a little further:

In 8 games AGAINST TOP 50 DEF IN 2015
HURD: 187 carries for 871 yards and 4.7 YPC
KAMARA: 62 carries for 280 yards and 4.5 YPC

In 6 games AGAINST TOP 50 DEF IN 2016
HURD: 114 carries for 435 yards and 3.8 YPC
KAMARA: 46 carries for 186 yards and 4.0 YPC.


I found that both RBs had 10+ carries in 4 GAMES against top 50 DEFENSES over those 2 seasons.
In those 4 games
:
HURD: 68 carries for 353 yards for 5.2 YPC
KAMARA: 54 carries for 281 yards for 5.2 YPC

That's as close as it gets between these two running backs with more than 10 carries per game against the TOP 50 DEFENSES on the schedule.

2015: 5 games against teams with Defenses ranked 63+ in terms of YPC allowed:
Hurd: 90 carries for 414 yards at 4.6 YPC
Kamara: 45 carries for 418 yards at 9.3 YPC

There were 2 of those 5 games where each RB had 10+ carries:
HURD: 38 carries for 195 yards at 5.1 YPC
KAMARA: 30 carries for 271 yards at 9.0 YPC.

2016: 6 games against teams with DEFENSES RANKED 65+ in terms of YPC allowed:
HURD carried the ball 8 times in only one of those games before quitting: USCe (#93 on the list) 8 times for 16 yards.
KAMARA missed the USCe game after being injured in the 1st half of the Alabama game.

KAMARA: 57 carries for 410 yards at 7.2 YPC
KELLY: 85 carries for 500 yards at 5.9 YPC

SPEAKING OF JOHN KELLY--

IN 10 games over the 2016-2017 seasons against TOP 50 DEFENSES in terms of YPC allowed:

JOHN KELLY had 123 carries for 475 yards at 3.9 YPC (I included 2017 Fla defense even though they were ranked #58 and gave up 4.2 YPC).

IN 10 games over 2016-2017 against DEFENSES RANKED 65+ in terms of YPC allowed:

KELLY: 157 carries for 829 yards at 5.3 YPC.


So--there are the numbers. I attempted to put the excel spreadsheet up in the post but I'm too dumb to figure out how to do it.


There's NO REAL DEBATE here.
HURD and KAMARA were pretty equal against the better defenses----with HURD taking the brunt of the beatings in terms in # of carries.
That sure PROVES how durable and tough HURD was at UT.
HURD sure wasn't "sexy" running the ball---but he was effective and durable. And HE SUFFERED for it physically.

Kamara definitely broke more long runs than Hurd did. He just did it against inferior competition.
Kamara averaged about 8 carries per game against the tougher Defenses--and just a little over 9 against the weaker defenses.

Jones and his crew were just plain 'ol stupid NOT TO SHARE the LOAD between these two very good RBs.
And they should've kept KAMARA on the field in the slot while he wasn't lining up at RB.

So, in the end, all of the noise made on here about how much BETTER KAMARA was than HURD is just a bunch of plain 'ol YAK MANURE.
Kamara was much better. Quicker, faster, more explosive. One is a RB in the NFL while the other is a WR. That is very telling.
 

VFFL@THE BEACH

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Kamara was much better. Quicker, faster, more explosive. One is a RB in the NFL while the other is a WR. That is very telling.
You don't think a NFL WR needs to be "quicker, faster and explosive"?

Is Hurd as fast and explosive as Kamara, probably not but still fast enough and explosive enough as it takes to be drafted in the NFL.
 

VFFL@THE BEACH

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CAREER YPC STATS against top 50 defenses:
ALL DATA was gathered from College Football Statistics and History | College Football at Sports-Reference.com and accessed today.
If you have a problem with how they ranked the Defenses--take that up with the HOST of the website.

HURD (2014--2016) 400 carries for 1729 yards at 4.3 YPC. (included 2014 UGA defense ranked #53 and giving up 4.1 YPC) over 21 games.

The VOLS played 14 games over the 2015 & 2016 seasons against teams RANKED in the TOP 50 based on YPC allowed.
HURD (2015 & 2016 top 50 Defenses) = 301 carries for 1306 yards at 4.3 YPC
KAMARA (2015 & 2016 top 50 Defenses) = 108 carries for 466 yards at 4.3 YPC

Well, N0W...to break it down a little further:

In 8 games AGAINST TOP 50 DEF IN 2015
HURD: 187 carries for 871 yards and 4.7 YPC
KAMARA: 62 carries for 280 yards and 4.5 YPC

In 6 games AGAINST TOP 50 DEF IN 2016
HURD: 114 carries for 435 yards and 3.8 YPC
KAMARA: 46 carries for 186 yards and 4.0 YPC.


I found that both RBs had 10+ carries in 4 GAMES against top 50 DEFENSES over those 2 seasons.
In those 4 games
:
HURD: 68 carries for 353 yards for 5.2 YPC
KAMARA: 54 carries for 281 yards for 5.2 YPC

That's as close as it gets between these two running backs with more than 10 carries per game against the TOP 50 DEFENSES on the schedule.

2015: 5 games against teams with Defenses ranked 63+ in terms of YPC allowed:
Hurd: 90 carries for 414 yards at 4.6 YPC
Kamara: 45 carries for 418 yards at 9.3 YPC

There were 2 of those 5 games where each RB had 10+ carries:
HURD: 38 carries for 195 yards at 5.1 YPC
KAMARA: 30 carries for 271 yards at 9.0 YPC.

2016: 6 games against teams with DEFENSES RANKED 65+ in terms of YPC allowed:
HURD carried the ball 8 times in only one of those games before quitting: USCe (#93 on the list) 8 times for 16 yards.
KAMARA missed the USCe game after being injured in the 1st half of the Alabama game.

KAMARA: 57 carries for 410 yards at 7.2 YPC
KELLY: 85 carries for 500 yards at 5.9 YPC

SPEAKING OF JOHN KELLY--

IN 10 games over the 2016-2017 seasons against TOP 50 DEFENSES in terms of YPC allowed:

JOHN KELLY had 123 carries for 475 yards at 3.9 YPC (I included 2017 Fla defense even though they were ranked #58 and gave up 4.2 YPC).

IN 10 games over 2016-2017 against DEFENSES RANKED 65+ in terms of YPC allowed:

KELLY: 157 carries for 829 yards at 5.3 YPC.


So--there are the numbers. I attempted to put the excel spreadsheet up in the post but I'm too dumb to figure out how to do it.


There's NO REAL DEBATE here.
HURD and KAMARA were pretty equal against the better defenses----with HURD taking the brunt of the beatings in terms in # of carries.
That sure PROVES how durable and tough HURD was at UT.
HURD sure wasn't "sexy" running the ball---but he was effective and durable. And HE SUFFERED for it physically.

Kamara definitely broke more long runs than Hurd did. He just did it against inferior competition.
Kamara averaged about 8 carries per game against the tougher Defenses--and just a little over 9 against the weaker defenses.

Jones and his crew were just plain 'ol stupid NOT TO SHARE the LOAD between these two very good RBs.
And they should've kept KAMARA on the field in the slot while he wasn't lining up at RB.

So, in the end, all of the noise made on here about how much BETTER KAMARA was than HURD is just a bunch of plain 'ol YAK MANURE.
This is an awesome breakdown of numbers. Thanks for spending the time to research.

Hurd did not play his senior year and took those beatings as a true freshman in the SEC. Kamara was a year older already, busy getting kicked off Alabama and had a couple of years to physically mature.
 

MikeVol44

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Correct. Averaged an anemic, embarrassing 3.7 yards per carry in 2016.....behind the same OL that Kamara averaged 5.8 ypc and Kelly 6.4. He was literally the worst starting running back in the SEC his last year here.
These statements are not entirely true--and just plain 'ol lazy.
Nobody's arguing against Hurd's terrible year in 2016.

But he didn't get to play against aTm that year--nor against Tenn. Tech, KY, Mizzou, Vandy, or Nebraska.
NONE of those defenses were ranked higher than 65th in YPC allowed for 2016. Most were actually above 75th.

But the FACTS show that in a fair comparison against equal teams in 2016 HURD = 3.8 YPC and KAMARA = 4.0 YPC.
NO matter how hard you try to deny it -- it's just plain 'ol true!
KAMARA wasn't exactly burning it up in 2016 when he had to run behind the same OL against the top 50!

But those FACTS just don't fit your narrative about HURD!
And we all know that you cannot tolerate an objective viewpoint that disproves your entire narrative.

I took the time to break it all down because averages are just that--AVERAGES.
Averages DO NOT represent the entire story.

And it's just a fact that the YPC average DROPS as the carries increase.
Hurd carried 3 times more than Kamara did against top 50 DEFENSES over the 2015-2016 seasons and STILL HAD THE SAME YPC!

Herschel Walker only averaged 5.2 YPC over his entire career.

Nobody's denying that Kamara was more explosive and a greater threat to break out on a long run or 2 during a game.
However, he just didn't break those long runs against the BEST defenses on our schedule.
He did it against the Kentucky's and Bowling Greens etc..etc...etc....

That sure as hades doesn't mean that he was the BETTER RB based on YPC alone.

Here endeth the lesson!
 
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XknoxvolsX

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CAREER YPC STATS against top 50 defenses:
ALL DATA was gathered from College Football Statistics and History | College Football at Sports-Reference.com and accessed today.
If you have a problem with how they ranked the Defenses--take that up with the HOST of the website.

HURD (2014--2016) 400 carries for 1729 yards at 4.3 YPC. (included 2014 UGA defense ranked #53 and giving up 4.1 YPC) over 21 games.

The VOLS played 14 games over the 2015 & 2016 seasons against teams RANKED in the TOP 50 based on YPC allowed.
HURD (2015 & 2016 top 50 Defenses) = 301 carries for 1306 yards at 4.3 YPC
KAMARA (2015 & 2016 top 50 Defenses) = 108 carries for 466 yards at 4.3 YPC

Well, N0W...to break it down a little further:

In 8 games AGAINST TOP 50 DEF IN 2015
HURD: 187 carries for 871 yards and 4.7 YPC
KAMARA: 62 carries for 280 yards and 4.5 YPC

In 6 games AGAINST TOP 50 DEF IN 2016
HURD: 114 carries for 435 yards and 3.8 YPC
KAMARA: 46 carries for 186 yards and 4.0 YPC.


I found that both RBs had 10+ carries in 4 GAMES against top 50 DEFENSES over those 2 seasons.
In those 4 games
:
HURD: 68 carries for 353 yards for 5.2 YPC
KAMARA: 54 carries for 281 yards for 5.2 YPC

That's as close as it gets between these two running backs with more than 10 carries per game against the TOP 50 DEFENSES on the schedule.

2015: 5 games against teams with Defenses ranked 63+ in terms of YPC allowed:
Hurd: 90 carries for 414 yards at 4.6 YPC
Kamara: 45 carries for 418 yards at 9.3 YPC

There were 2 of those 5 games where each RB had 10+ carries:
HURD: 38 carries for 195 yards at 5.1 YPC
KAMARA: 30 carries for 271 yards at 9.0 YPC.

2016: 6 games against teams with DEFENSES RANKED 65+ in terms of YPC allowed:
HURD carried the ball 8 times in only one of those games before quitting: USCe (#93 on the list) 8 times for 16 yards.
KAMARA missed the USCe game after being injured in the 1st half of the Alabama game.

KAMARA: 57 carries for 410 yards at 7.2 YPC
KELLY: 85 carries for 500 yards at 5.9 YPC

SPEAKING OF JOHN KELLY--

IN 10 games over the 2016-2017 seasons against TOP 50 DEFENSES in terms of YPC allowed:

JOHN KELLY had 123 carries for 475 yards at 3.9 YPC (I included 2017 Fla defense even though they were ranked #58 and gave up 4.2 YPC).

IN 10 games over 2016-2017 against DEFENSES RANKED 65+ in terms of YPC allowed:

KELLY: 157 carries for 829 yards at 5.3 YPC.


So--there are the numbers. I attempted to put the excel spreadsheet up in the post but I'm too dumb to figure out how to do it.


There's NO REAL DEBATE here.
HURD and KAMARA were pretty equal against the better defenses----with HURD taking the brunt of the beatings in terms in # of carries.
That sure PROVES how durable and tough HURD was at UT.
HURD sure wasn't "sexy" running the ball---but he was effective and durable. And HE SUFFERED for it physically.

Kamara definitely broke more long runs than Hurd did. He just did it against inferior competition.
Kamara averaged about 8 carries per game against the tougher Defenses--and just a little over 9 against the weaker defenses.

Jones and his crew were just plain 'ol stupid NOT TO SHARE the LOAD between these two very good RBs.
And they should've kept KAMARA on the field in the slot while he wasn't lining up at RB.

So, in the end, all of the noise made on here about how much BETTER KAMARA was than HURD is just a bunch of plain 'ol YAK MANURE.
Great statistical analysis Mike. Thanks for the work you put into this!

I can see but not validate it because I do not have the acumen but I will agree with the statement about Kamara and inferior competition. I noticed that as well, even without the T-test being run. Just by TV.
 

BearCat204

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You don't think a NFL WR needs to be "quicker, faster and explosive"?

Is Hurd as fast and explosive as Kamara, probably not but still fast enough and explosive enough as it takes to be drafted in the NFL.
There are about 5 running backs in the history of the NFL that could say they are.........................
 

jarhead

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I was never a big fan of Hurd but even I have to admit he looked like an all-pro the other night for the 49er's. I know it's only one pre-season game but he did well.
 

MemphisVol77

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These statements are not entirely true--and just plain 'ol lazy.
Nobody's arguing against Hurd's terrible year in 2016.

But he didn't get to play against aTm that year--nor against Tenn. Tech, KY, Mizzou, Vandy, or Nebraska.
NONE of those defenses were ranked higher than 65th in YPC allowed for 2016. Most were actually above 75th.

But the FACTS show that in a fair comparison against equal teams in 2016 HURD = 3.8 YPC and KAMARA = 4.0 YPC.
NO matter how hard you try to deny it -- it's just plain 'ol true!
KAMARA wasn't exactly burning it up in 2016 when he had to run behind the same OL against the top 50!

But those FACTS just don't fit your narrative about HURD!
And we all know that you cannot tolerate an objective viewpoint that disproves your entire narrative.

I took the time to break it all down because averages are just that--AVERAGES.
Averages DO NOT represent the entire story.

And it's just a fact that the YPC average DROPS as the carries increase.
Hurd carried 3 times more than Kamara did against top 50 DEFENSES over the 2015-2016 seasons and STILL HAD THE SAME YPC!

Herschel Walker only averaged 5.2 YPC over his entire career.

Nobody's denying that Kamara was more explosive and a greater threat to break out on a long run or 2 during a game.
However, he just didn't break those long runs against the BEST defenses on our schedule.
He did it against the Kentucky's and Bowling Greens etc..etc...etc....

That sure as hades doesn't mean that he was the BETTER RB based on YPC alone.

Here endeth the lesson!

I've disagreed with you over whether the coaching staff promising to run more I-form and pro-set to keep him from transferring....

But props to you on this one. Nice work sir.

You willing to do research on his 3qt & 4qt ypc averages in 2014/2015, lol? Let's not forget Hurd was a punishing runner that helped wear defenses down.
 

VFFL@THE BEACH

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Not as a RB. Good grief..
You missed the point. Hurd is a good enough athlete to play about anywhere he wants to play in the NFL. If you don't think Hurd would have been drafted as a RB then you are beyond delusional. Those of us that have played the game understand athletes, Hurd is a NFL level athlete. Why he chose to be a WR? Who knows, may have had something to do having no O-line, getting his head kicked in every play as a true freshman. Maybe he though he could make more money at WR but he could have been drafted at both positions.
 

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