Jalen Hurd drafted by the Niners

KBVol

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I can't say it's not entertaining to see some of the guys ripping Hurd and downplaying what he did on the field in this thread, then see them talk about JG like he does nothing wrong in another.

I guess that's different though.
“Ripping” Hurd or placing his performance/play at Tennessee in the proper context?

He It ain’t “ripping” a player to point out facts about him. Imho, it’s incredibly lazy for guys to fall back on “he’s our 6th leading rusher and was on pace to be Tennessee’s all-time leading rusher”. A quick recollection of how he played and an even quicker look at his numbers tells the truth about the guy. He ran hard, was a physical specimen at rb due to his size and good athletic ability for that size....but he was plodding, with little burst and below average top end speed (just ran 4.68 at 220lbs at Baylor’s proday)....and his numbers show it, especially when you realize that both Kamara and Kelly, running behind the same bad OL, averaged far more yards per carry. Bottom line, Hurd was a solid SEC running back who could get some tough yards, who was very good in pass protection and an excellent receiver coming out of the backfield. But he simply limited in what he could do running the ball.

As far as JG, nobody dying on the hill saying he’s great or that he doesn’t need to get better....just defending him against the detractors who insist he’s horrible, not an SEC/D1 QB who can’t read a defense, and who’ll never lead UT to a win as its qb.
 
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KBVol

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There are extremist on both sides and there's a good chance somebody is gonna look stupit before season ends.
No, there are “extremists” on one side concerning JG...the side that says he sucks and was horrible last year. That’s extremist.

If I or the others that defend the kid routinely said “he’s the best qb in the league, the best UT qb since Peyton and a preseason all-American”, then we would have extremists on both sides.

It’s not extremist to say the kid was better last year than his detractors say, was actually quite good in the pocket given the pressure he was constantly under (he was statistically the best SEC QB last year throwing under pressure) and can be a very good qb this year if he improves some things and the players around him, specifically the OL, are much better around him. Nothing extremist about that position imo.
 

Behr

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No, there are “extremists” on one side concerning JG...the side that says he sucks and was horrible last year. That’s extremist.

If I or the others that defend the kid routinely said “he’s the best qb in the league, the best UT qb since Peyton and a preseason all-American”, then we would have extremists on both sides.

It’s not extremist to say the kid was better last year than his detractors say, was actually quite good in the pocket given the pressure he was constantly under (he was statistically the best SEC QB last year throwing under pressure) and can be a very good qb this year if he improves some things and the players around him, specifically the OL, are much better around him. Nothing extremist about that position imo.
“Ripping” Hurd or placing his performance/play at Tennessee in the proper context?

He It ain’t “ripping” a player to point out facts about him. Imho, it’s incredibly lazy for guys to fall back on “he’s our 6th leading rusher and was on pace to be Tennessee’s all-time leading rusher”. A quick recollection of how he played and an even quicker look at his numbers tells the truth about the guy. He ran hard, was a physical specimen at rb due to his size and good athletic ability for that size....but he was plodding, with little burst and below average top end speed (just ran 4.68 at 220lbs at Baylor’s proday)....and his numbers show it, especially when you realize that both Kamara and Kelly, running behind the same bad OL, averaged far more yards per carry. Bottom line, Hurd was a solid SEC running back who could get some tough yards, who was very good in pass protection and an excellent receiver coming out of the backfield. But he simply limited in what he could do running the ball.

As far as JG, nobody dying on the hill saying he’s great or that he doesn’t need to get better....just defending him against the detractors who insist he’s horrible, not an SEC/D1 QB who can’t read a defense, and who’ll never lead UT to a win as its qb.
I have my opinion and you have yours. I see you and a couple others point out every little flaw you can on Hurd, and dare anyone to say anything negative about JG. I'm I exaggerating a little? Only guilty man on VN. Do you get my point? Yes, you do.

There are extremist on BOTH sides of JGGate and that's a fact.

And Im not hatin, I just said its entertaining.
 
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KBVol

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I have my opinion and you have yours. I see you and a couple others point out every little flaw you can on Hurd, and dare anyone to say anything negative about JG. I'm I exaggerating a little? Only guilty man on VN. Do you get my point? Yes, you do.

There are extremist on BOTH sides of JGGate and that's a fact.

And Im not hatin, I just said its entertaining.
Fair enough. We just disagree.

But for the record, I’ve been very complimentary of Hurd’s best football skill, his ability to catch the football.....which to me was evident even as a freshman running back at UT. Even predicted he’d be a 3rd round pick because of his size, athletic ability as a potential NFL slot WR and his work ethic. Kid has his strengths and weaknesses.....the former are his abilities as a receiver, the latter were coming anywhere close to the hype that proceeded him at Tennessee as an “Eric Dickerson type” transcendant running back ...... an expectation which he never sniffed at Tennessee, and his performances and stats made that crystal clear.

And even at that, I’ve called him an extremely hard running, tough nose, solid SEC running back. Not once have I said he “sucked” (like all these JG haters) and couldn’t play whatsoever.

So, what you see as picking on every Hurd flaw, I see as just accurately assessing the kid’s football skill set. It wound up being his receiving skills as a Baylor WR that got him drafted whereas he likely would’ve been an undrafted free agent had he attempted to enter the draft as a Tennessee running back.
 

midtnvol2

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Lol. Nothing is “great” about rushing for 2,638 yards on 589 carries for 4.5 yards per carry in college football. Nothing.
Really LOL at a 4.5 YPC???? Obviously you have ill will towards Hurd which is cool, everyone has a right to their opinion. But to dismiss and laugh at those stats is well LOL ridiculous.
 

KBVol

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Really LOL at a 4.5 YPC???? Obviously you have ill will towards Hurd which is cool, everyone has a right to their opinion. But to dismiss and laugh at those stats is well LOL ridiculous.
No I don’t. No ill whatsoever against the guy, wasn’t even particularly upset like so many else were when he abruptly left the program in 2016.

Those stats are pedestrian given the amount of carries (nearly 600) that he got. And 4.5 yards per carry for a college running back isn’t good....at all.

For example, top rusher in the SEC last year averaged 7.9 yards per carry and the guy who averaged 4.5 yards per carry was 27th in the conference. Additionally, 4.5 yards per carry in the NCAA last year put you ranked somewhere in the mid 200s.

In 2015 and 2016 Alvin Kamara, in the same offense, playing next to the same QB, running the exact same plays, behind the same OL, ran 210 times for 1,294 yards, 6.2 yards per carry, 16 touchdowns.....Hurd had 399 carries for 1,736 yards , 4.35 yards per carry and 12 touchdowns.

Hurd, as our 6th all-time leading rusher, was ranked well behind 4 of the 5 guys ahead of him in terms of averaged per carry, usually by about a yard per carry. Only Arian Foster didn’t average well over 5 yards per carry.

Those are just facts, not dislike or ill will.
 
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VOL_Lyfe

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I can't say it's not entertaining to see some of the guys ripping Hurd and downplaying what he did on the field in this thread, then see them talk about JG like he does nothing wrong in another.

I guess that's different though.
About time someone brought JG into this. Took long enough.


;)
 
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Behr

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Fair enough. We just disagree.

But for the record, I’ve been very complimentary of Hurd’s best football skill, his ability to catch the football.....which to me was evident even as a freshman running back at UT. Even predicted he’d be a 3rd round pick because of his size, athletic ability as a potential NFL slot WR and his work ethic. Kid has his strengths and weaknesses.....the former are his abilities as a receiver, the latter were coming anywhere close to the hype that proceeded him at Tennessee as an “Eric Dickerson type” transcendant running back ...... an expectation which he never sniffed at Tennessee, and his performances and stats made that crystal clear.

And even at that, I’ve called him an extremely hard running, tough nose, solid SEC running back. Not once have I said he “sucked” (like all these JG haters) and couldn’t play whatsoever.

So, what you see as picking on every Hurd flaw, I see as just accurately assessing the kid’s football skill set. It wound up being his receiving skills as a Baylor WR that got him drafted whereas he likely would’ve been an undrafted free agent had he attempted to enter the draft as a Tennessee running back.
Aight, as you say.. Fair enough.

So, I stand corrected, you were not "ripping" Hurd, just stating facts.

What I should have said is, I find it entertaining how thorough you are about how Hurd was not incredible and show stats to back it up, but the only criticism I can remember from you on JG is "hes not perfect".

You know how things are around here. Someone brings up something good about Hurd, then someone that's still pissed off because he quit starts in on how he sucked.. then blah blah blah, here we are. Same with JG. Some still hold it against him how he pouted on the sidelines and now he'll need to perform miracles for them to change thier minds.

Anyway, no big deal.
 

KBVol

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He ran the ball at Baylor also. Of the 4 RBs with at least 40 carries he was nearly a ypc behind the others with only a 4.4ypc.

To his credit it really does appear the change of position was the right career call.
It absolutely was. It took guts and patience to do it, but kudos to him for persevering and pulling it off. Not to mention the foresight and honesty it took to see it. He simply wasn’t gonna be drafted as a 6’5” plodding running back with 4.7 speed. However, as a slimmed down, big-bodied WR with excellent hands, he had the value of a 3rd round pick. Smart kid.
 

KBVol

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Aight, as you say.. Fair enough.

So, I stand corrected, you were not "ripping" Hurd, just stating facts.

What I should have said is, I find it entertaining how thorough you are about how Hurd was not incredible and show stats to back it up, but the only criticism I can remember from you on JG is "hes not perfect".

You know how things are around here. Someone brings up something good about Hurd, then someone that's still pissed off because he quit starts in on how he sucked.. then blah blah blah, here we are. Same with JG. Some still hold it against him how he pouted on the sidelines and now he'll need to perform miracles for them to change thier minds.

Anyway, no big deal.
I’ve said numerous times that JG needs to be better and improve....but quite honestly, as you’ve pointed out, I spend way more time defending him from the “he just sucks”, “he can’t read a defense to save his life”, “all he does is thrown dink and dunk screen passes”, “he stares down every receiver” charges. Guilty as charged.

I think he needs to, at times, be more decisive with a quicker sense of urgency in his drop backs....he at times seems a little too nonchalant. I think he, at times, needs to deliver the ball quicker. But, I typically don’t get into those specifics because the criticisms of him are so egregious and over the top that I find it more beneficial and a better use of time to go straight to refuting those subjective opinions with empirical fact.

Also, notice that none of his detractors will ever say “he does this and that well, and he’s improved from last year, but he needs to work on this and that”....it’s typically just “he can’t do this, he can’t do that, he sucks, get him out of there”.......and all of that is a far, far cry from how I’ve discussed Hurd.
 
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Behr

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Also, notice that none of his detractors will ever say “he does this and that well, and he’s improved from last year, but he needs to work on this and that”....it’s typically just “he can’t do this, he can’t do that, he sucks, get him out of there”.......and all of that is a far, far cry from how I’ve discussed Hurd.
Oh yea, I notice... "check my stats" haha, Im pretty sure I've expressed my differences with most if not all of them. I know one was a troll and I think the others are just trolling K-town, you and the "pro JG " crowd.

Tbh, If Pruitt hadn't changed the staff this season, I wouldn't have as much confidence in JG improving enough to actually make a substantial difference. I have all the confidence in the changes.
 
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midtnvol2

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No I don’t. No ill whatsoever against the guy, wasn’t even particularly upset like so many else were when he abruptly left the program in 2016.

Those stats are pedestrian given the amount of carries (nearly 600) that he got. And 4.5 yards per carry for a college running back isn’t good....at all.

For example, top rusher in the SEC last year averaged 7.9 yards per carry and the guy who averaged 4.5 yards per carry was 27th in the conference. Additionally, 4.5 yards per carry in the NCAA last year put you ranked somewhere in the mid 200s.

In 2015 and 2016 Alvin Kamara, in the same offense, playing next to the same QB, running the exact same plays, behind the same OL, ran 210 times for 1,294 yards, 6.2 yards per carry, 16 touchdowns.....Hurd had 399 carries for 1,736 yards , 4.35 yards per carry and 12 touchdowns.

Hurd, as our 6th all-time leading rusher, was ranked well behind 4 of the 5 guys ahead of him in terms of averaged per carry, usually by about a yard per carry. Only Arian Foster didn’t average well over 5 yards per carry.

Those are just facts, not dislike or ill will.
Here are some actual facts:
T Henry avg 5.5 YPC 556 car 3078yds
A Foster avg 4.5 YPC 650 car 2964yds
J Stewart avg 5.4 YPC 531 car 2852 yds
J Jones ave 5.5 YPC 517 car 2852 yds
J Lewis avg 5.4 YPC 487 car 2677 yds
J Hurd avg 4.5 YPC 589 car 2638 yds
C Houston 5.2 YPC 501 car 2634 yds
J Graham 4.8 YPC 540 car 2609 yds
M Hardesty 4.2 YPC 501 car 2391 yds
C Watson 4.4 YPC 529 car 2364 yds

According to your logic all top ten rushers in Tennessee's history were as you said "pedestrian" and are basically average.
Here are the SEC rushing leaders from last season: 2018 Player Statistics
Nobody averaged 7.9 YPC but Vanderbilt's Ke'Shawn Vaughn was the leader at 6.95 YPC. I didn't know how bad we really are, thanks for pointing it out.
 
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YankeeVol

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Here are some actual facts:
T Henry avg 5.5 YPC 556 car 3078yds
A Foster avg 4.5 YPC 650 car 2964yds
J Stewart avg 5.4 YPC 531 car 2852 yds
J Jones ave 5.5 YPC 517 car 2852 yds
J Lewis avg 5.4 YPC 487 car 2677 yds
J Hurd avg 4.5 YPC 589 car 2638 yds
C Houston 5.2 YPC 501 car 2634 yds
J Graham 4.8 YPC 540 car 2609 yds
M Hardesty 4.2 YPC 501 car 2391 yds
C Watson 4.4 YPC 529 car 2364 yds

According to your logic all top ten rushers in Tennessee's history were as you said "pedestrian" and are basically average.
Here are the SEC rushing leaders from last season: 2018 Player Statistics
Nobody averaged 7.9 YPC but Vanderbilt's Ke'Shawn Vaughn was the leader at 6.95 YPC. I didn't know how bad we really are, thanks for pointing it out.
Well only 2 average less than 4.5 in your comparison. So only 4 of 10 would be pedestrian.
 

KBVol

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Here are some actual facts:
T Henry avg 5.5 YPC 556 car 3078yds
A Foster avg 4.5 YPC 650 car 2964yds
J Stewart avg 5.4 YPC 531 car 2852 yds
J Jones ave 5.5 YPC 517 car 2852 yds
J Lewis avg 5.4 YPC 487 car 2677 yds
J Hurd avg 4.5 YPC 589 car 2638 yds
C Houston 5.2 YPC 501 car 2634 yds
J Graham 4.8 YPC 540 car 2609 yds
M Hardesty 4.2 YPC 501 car 2391 yds
C Watson 4.4 YPC 529 car 2364 yds

According to your logic all top ten rushers in Tennessee's history were as you said "pedestrian" and are basically average.
Here are the SEC rushing leaders from last season: 2018 Player Statistics
Nobody averaged 7.9 YPC but Vanderbilt's Ke'Shawn Vaughn was the leader at 6.95 YPC. I didn't know how bad we really are, thanks for pointing it out.
1. I said Hurd’s stats at Tennessee we’re pedestrian because he averaged 4.5 yards per carry....which is 100% true.


2. I pointed out that the others above him in yards gained at Tennessee (other than Foster), WERE NOT PEDESTRIAN), because all of them averaged well over 5 yards per carry. Perhaps you’re not aware that 5.5 yards per carry is a full yard more per carry than 4.5 yards per carry, is much better and is therefore NOT pedestrian? It’s math.

3. D04E8A7B-506A-4A02-AE7C-52B4303698EA.png
As you should be able to see, but evidently can’t, Vaughn did indeed average 7.92 yards per carry last year, not 6.95......followed by Harris at 6.69 and so on.....all of which are light years better than a very pedestrian 4.5 yards per carry which Hurd averaged over his career at Tennessee.

4. Also, noticed how you glossed over and omitted addressing the fact that while Hurd was averaging 3.7 yards per carry in 2016 (which, according to your “logic”, must be the same as 5.7 ypc), that Kamara was averaging 5.8 and Kelly 6.4.....behind the same exact OL, running the same exact plays.

5. Hurd’s rushing stats were pedestrian at Tennessee.
 
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XknoxvolsX

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Maybe if Hurd would have been an I back here he may have been better. I don't know. Maybe if he had a better line he might have been better. I don't know. What I do know is that the other two backs were far better. That is from visually watching and the stats page.
 
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KBVol

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Maybe if Hurd would have been an I back here he may have been better. I don't know. Maybe if he had a better line he might have been better. I don't know. What I do know is that the other two backs were far better. That is from visually watching and the stats page.
All that is correct. Although I’m not sure he would’ve been great out of the I formation either, I do think he would’ve been better if he’d have had the ability to build up a head of steam at 240lbs rather than taking a handoff standing still 3 yards behind the LOS. Both Kamara and Kelly had considerably more quickness and burst, so they could make it work.....Hurd, not so much.

All that’s water under the bridge now. I sincerely believe he’ll have a good nfl career as a WR if he can stay healthy.
 

XknoxvolsX

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All that is correct. Although I’m not sure he would’ve been great out of the I formation either, I do think he would’ve been better if he’d have had the ability to build up a head of steam at 240lbs rather than taking a handoff standing still 3 yards behind the LOS. Both Kamara and Kelly had considerably more quickness and burst, so they could make it work.....Hurd, not so much.

All that’s water under the bridge now. I sincerely believe he’ll have a good nfl career as a WR if he can stay healthy.
I hope he does, KB! I felt for the kid being in the situation he was in. And, being a home state kid that bled Orange. Not only that but he was highly ranked and highly touted coming out of high school. People seem to forget that Saban wanted him. Just how much I do not know.
 

midtnvol2

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1. I said Hurd’s stats at Tennessee we’re pedestrian because he averaged 4.5 yards per carry....which is 100% true.


2. I pointed out that the others above him in yards gained at Tennessee (other than Foster), WERE NOT PEDESTRIAN), because all of them averaged well over 5 yards per carry. Perhaps you’re not aware that 5.5 yards per carry is a full yard more per carry than 4.5 yards per carry, is much better and is therefore NOT pedestrian? It’s math.

3. View attachment 205790
As you should be able to see, but evidently can’t, Vaughn did indeed average 7.92 yards per carry last year, not 6.95......followed by Harris at 6.69 and so on.....all of which are light years better than a very pedestrian 4.5 yards per carry which Hurd averaged over his career at Tennessee.

4. Also, noticed how you glossed over and omitted addressing the fact that while Hurd was averaging 3.7 yards per carry in 2016 (which, according to your “logic”, must be the same as 5.7 ypc), that Kamara was averaging 5.8 and Kelly 6.4.....behind the same exact OL, running the same exact plays.

5. Hurd’s rushing stats were pedestrian at Tennessee.
According to the official SEC conference statistics he did. I didn't gloss over anything, if you know a damn thing about football there are ups and downs every week, no one in any sport at any time over any season hits the exact same yards game in and game out. Thats why its called an average. Please continue to cherry pick what ever you wish and enjoy your hate.
 
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KBVol

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There are extremist on both sides and there's a good chance somebody is gonna look stupit before season ends.
No, there aren’t extremists on both sides, only one.

One side says he’s not great but he was much better last year than the naysayers say he was, and they provide statistics to back it up.

The other side, the extremists, say he sucks, can’t read a defense, can’t set protections, can’t read a blitz, can’t lead his receivers, holds the ball too long and can’t lead Tennessee to a win as its quarterback.
 

KBVol

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According to the official SEC conference statistics he did. I didn't gloss over anything, if you know a damn thing about football there are ups and downs every week, no one in any sport at any time over any season hits the exact same yards game in and game out. Thats why its called an average. Please continue to cherry pick what ever you wish and enjoy your hate.
This post is as dumb now, in August, as it was back in May. Congrats.
 
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