Jaden Rashada sues Florida for reneging on $13 mil NIL

[McDad]

And if you think UF stands alone in screwing one of these up you're dreaming. Careful when you make too much fun of UF over it when you know there are players who will claim they were promised x, and got y.

So far, UF is the only sued by a player.

 

[lawgator1]

So far, UF is the only sued by a player.

So far...

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Wait? You mean some shady boosters weren't on the level? This is the world people wanted. The 9.5 million dollar deal probably wasn't real either. Caveat emptor, bitchez.

It is not the world that anyone with two brain cells to run together wanted. It was fraud on the part of UF's NIL collective, pure and simple.

There's a difference between legit NIL deals and fraudulent ones. Don't conflate them.

 

[LouderVol]

Everyone recognizes the reality of the situation and that there is nothing wrong with the players maximizing their income from it. No one is saying they shouldn't be allowed to do so.

But that doesn't mean we can't also recognize that it destroys a significant aspect of being a fan and viewing yourself as part of a collective effort to win which used to include the idea that the players who want to your school had some sort of investment in it other than simply what was in it for them.

isn't that the whole point of an investment? What is in it for the investor?

what did you think players had sunk into the school beyond playing football?

and why the focus on just the players. The coaches should be a much bigger impact to your enjoyment as a fan. them being mercenaries has long been accepted, and no one ever complained about that aspect ruining the fan experience because a coach could leave.

 

[turbovol]

It is not the world that anyone with two brain cells to run together wanted. It was fraud on the part of UF's NIL collective, pure and simple.

There's a difference between legit NIL deals and fraudulent ones. Don't conflate them.

They're all fraudulent because NIL was conceived as a way to give current student-athletes a piece of merch sold with their NIL---or for any promotional activities. Now, NIL is mostly just a cover for bribing prospects to sign with your school--period. It has little to do with NIL as conceived. Student-athletes succeeded on the playing field, made a name for themselves--and THEN a bizmen started printing jerseys with their names on the back or brought them in to glad-hand retail customers, etc. Now high-schoolers are getting money before they've done anything, before they've shown that they can be a college standout. Up-front money--and a lot of it will be wasted on busts.

What's more, what private bizman is going to invest money in player merch given that most players don't stay at a program now for more than a year or two. Players will get NIL money and then transfer because they're not playing enough or they'll transfer because they have played, and played well, and now another school has offered them more money. All we'll see with most of the guys getting NIL is a few cursory group promotional appearances. There will be the occasional guy who becomes a very high-profile player and sticks around long enough to justify some legit NIL--some legit exchange of services. Nico, for example: If he plays well and sticks around, there will be some legit NIL with him--some return on investment--as there should be given how much money we're supposedly paying them. But most of the guys who are getting deals are just getting money. It's a massive cash grab, and most donors realize this.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

It is not the world that anyone with two brain cells to run together wanted. It was fraud on the part of UF's NIL collective, pure and simple.

There's a difference between legit NIL deals and fraudulent ones. Don't conflate them.

Lol, you don't think the current environment fosters this? It absolutely does. This is what the wild west looks like.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

They're all fraudulent because NIL was conceived as a way to give current student-athletes a piece of merch sold with their NIL---or for any promotional activities. Now, NIL is mostly just a cover for bribing prospects to sign with your school--period. It has little to do with NIL as conceived. Student-athletes succeeded on the playing field, made a name for themselves--and THEN a bizmen started printing jerseys with their names on the back or brought them in to glad-hand retail customers, etc. Now high-schoolers are getting money before they've done anything, before they've shown that they can be a college standout. Up-front money--and a lot of it will be wasted on busts.

What's more, what private bizman is going to invest money in player merch given that most players don't stay at a program now for more than a year or two. Players will get NIL money and then transfer because they're not playing enough or they'll transfer because they have played, and played well, and now another school has offered them more money. All we'll see with most of the guys getting NIL is a few cursory group promotional appearances. There will be the occasional guy who becomes a very high-profile player and sticks around long enough to justify some legit NIL--some legit exchange of services. Nico, for example: If he plays well and sticks around, there will be some legit NIL with him--some return on investment--as there should be given how much money we're supposedly paying them. But most of the guys who are getting deals are just getting money. It's a massive cash grab, and most donors realize this.

That's a bogus claim. Zero fraud on the part of the schools, athletes, or NIL collectives with the single exception of the UF case.

The federal court rulings make it clear that the fraud was on the part of the NCAA's federal law violations that exploited the athletes for decades.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Lol, you don't think the current environment fosters this? It absolutely does. This is what the wild west looks like.

That's an Appeal to Outliers logical fallacy.
It's a classic case of n=1.

The Wild West was about exploiting people for monetary gain. That sounds exactly like the system that NIL collectives got rid of.

 

[butchna]

So far...

It was pretty blatant on your boys part…LOT of decimals!

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

That's an Appeal to Outliers logical fallacy.
It's a classic case of n=1.

The Wild West was about exploiting people for monetary gain. That sounds exactly like the system that NIL collectives got rid of.

Congress is the only entity that can bring order to this mess (as sad of a damn situation as that is for college athletics to be in), as I told you several months ago and you and Revolution were all for the current free for all and 50 different sets of rules. There needs to be a partial exemption from antitrust for the governing body of college athletics (whether that's the NCAA or some successor institution) that allows the governing body to make enforceable rules to govern the sport, contingent on a profit sharing arrangement with the players (some present some deferred like a pension), and health insurance for injuries incurred during scholarship related activities, etc. Right now there are no universally enforceable rules and it will remain that way until Congress acts so you have a situation where crooks are free to thrive and skullduggery is rewarded. At least under the old system, while there were shenanigans, there was also the prospect of getting caught and getting SMU'd. Now there is little to no deterrent.

 

[LouderVol]

Congress is the only entity that can bring order to this mess (as sad of a damn situation as that is for college athletics to be in), as I told you several months ago and you and Revolution were all for the current free for all and 50 different sets of rules. There needs to be a partial exemption from antitrust for the governing body of college athletics (whether that's the NCAA or some successor institution) that allows the governing body to make enforceable rules to govern the sport, contingent on a profit sharing arrangement with the players (some present some deferred like a pension), and health insurance for injuries incurred during scholarship related activities, etc. Right now there are no universally enforceable rules and it will remain that way until Congress acts so you have a situation where crooks are free to thrive and skullduggery is rewarded. At least under the old system, while there were shenanigans, there was also the prospect of getting caught and getting SMU'd. Now there is little to no deterrent.

its not an unsolvable issue without congress.

Contracts. same way we keep coaches at schools.

 

[superdave1984]

its not an unsolvable issue without congress.

Contracts. same way we keep coaches at schools.

But the buyouts...

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Congress is the only entity that can bring order to this mess (as sad of a damn situation as that is for college athletics to be in), as I told you several months ago and you and Revolution were all for the current free for all and 50 different sets of rules. There needs to be a partial exemption from antitrust for the governing body of college athletics (whether that's the NCAA or some successor institution) that allows the governing body to make enforceable rules to govern the sport, contingent on a profit sharing arrangement with the players (some present some deferred like a pension), and health insurance for injuries incurred during scholarship related activities, etc. Right now there are no universally enforceable rules and it will remain that way until Congress acts so you have a situation where crooks are free to thrive and skullduggery is rewarded. At least under the old system, while there were shenanigans, there was also the prospect of getting caught and getting SMU'd. Now there is little to no deterrent.

Nope. Congress screws up almost everything it touches. Your idea of a cure is worse than the disease.

Crooks and skullduggery? Nope. That was the old, illegal system of bagmen, gray shirts, transfer limits, buying houses for mams, new Corvettes, and coaching jobs for daddy.

SMU? What the NCAA did to them was blatantly illegal. Unfortunately for them, the statute of limitations for a recovery lawsuit has passed.

The NCAA tried to SMU Tennessee, and guess what? The state and the University handed them their butts in court.

Florida, Miami, and FSU were stupid to buy Kyle to the NCAA on NIL issues.

Tennessee led the charge to get that crap stopped.

Same for UNC for telling the NCAA to pound sand over the investigation that alleged that UNC athletes were not going to class. UNC essentially said "online classes" and refused to cooperate.

The NCAA isn't getting any kind of Antitrust exemption. Congress isn't going to give them one. The free market conservatives are against it based on capitalism and freedom. The liberals are against it because they don't want the NCAA to go back to decades of athlete exploitation.

Let the market decide.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Congress is the only entity that can bring order to this mess (as sad of a damn situation as that is for college athletics to be in), as I told you several months ago and you and Revolution were all for the current free for all and 50 different sets of rules. There needs to be a partial exemption from antitrust for the governing body of college athletics (whether that's the NCAA or some successor institution) that allows the governing body to make enforceable rules to govern the sport, contingent on a profit sharing arrangement with the players (some present some deferred like a pension), and health insurance for injuries incurred during scholarship related activities, etc. Right now there are no universally enforceable rules and it will remain that way until Congress acts so you have a situation where crooks are free to thrive and skullduggery is rewarded. At least under the old system, while there were shenanigans, there was also the prospect of getting caught and getting SMU'd. Now there is little to no deterrent.

Congress has given Antitrust Exemptions to pro leagues over the years.

The problem is people still want to insist college football and basketball players are "students" and not professionals. But EVERYTHING the schools and NCAA is currently doing is to preserve the business side of the equation, not the student portion of the equation.

We'll directly compensate the players for their skills as athletes and revenue share the proceeds. Okay, so you'll accept they're professional athletes and want Congress to treat your business like the other pro sports businesses, right?

No, no, no...... we're not a pro sports business. We are colleges who have sports teams made up of students. We just want to pay those students to come and play at our schools, but no, no, no....... we don't want to employee them as athletes, we just want to pay them for playing athletics. You mean, you want to sign them to paying contracts to play sports, have collective bargaining for revenue sharing, establish free agency rules, have a school sponsored compensation cap (not including outside NIL, just like the pro leagues)......... but we want to be "amateur athletics."

Everything about compensation, about the portal jumping, about the tampering between teams screams: these players are employees of the schools for the school's sports business. Their student status is completely secondary to their value to the school as athletes.

A college employing pro athletes is a very long way from the usual academic mission of colleges.

 

[VAVol85]

What has really changed the sport are the transfer rules. Way more so than NIL. These situations where guys are playing for 3-4 different schools in their career that have almost become routine wouldn't happen.

Even if NIL didn't exist, guys would still be moving around all over the place looking for more playing time, a better under the table deal, etc.

I get the legal basis for allowing NIL. I don’t fully understand why a sports league can’t regulate the eligibility for players. Further, what’s the difference between saying a guy has to sit a year after transferring and saying that he has to leave after four years of eligibility? Both are arbitrary rules that limit a player’s ability to hold a job.

 

[05_never_again]

I get the legal basis for allowing NIL. I don’t fully understand why a sports league can’t regulate the eligibility for players. Further, what’s the difference between saying a guy has to sit a year after transferring and saying that he has to leave after four years of eligibility? Both are arbitrary rules that limit a player’s ability to hold a job.

I agree. I didn't have a huge problem with the transfer rules, honestly, and I really wouldn't have a problem with them now given that they can (within the rules) get paid. I don't see it as being any different than a professional athlete who is currently under contract with a team can't go play for another team.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

1. not sure how this is Napiers, or UF's fault the NIL deal thru with a third party collective or agent.
2. seems like he is opening up himself to getting sued by Miami for backing out of his NIL deal there. this could set a dangerous precedence for players getting sued in return for not meeting the NIL requirements.

If Napier was tampering and playing middle man as the suit states then it is absolutely partly his fault.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

If Napier was tampering and playing middle man as the suit states then it is absolutely partly his fault.

There is no such thing as tampering.
The NCAA rule against it was illegal, just like the rest of their sports model.

It's just the new way of recruiting.
And..it's perfectly legal.

A fraudulent contract is not, regardless of the setting.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Congress has given Antitrust Exemptions to pro leagues over the years.

The problem is people still want to insist college football and basketball players are "students" and not professionals. But EVERYTHING the schools and NCAA is currently doing is to preserve the business side of the equation, not the student portion of the equation.

We'll directly compensate the players for their skills as athletes and revenue share the proceeds. Okay, so you'll accept they're professional athletes and want Congress to treat your business like the other pro sports businesses, right?

No, no, no...... we're not a pro sports business. We are colleges who have sports teams made up of students. We just want to pay those students to come and play at our schools, but no, no, no....... we don't want to employee them as athletes, we just want to pay them for playing athletics. You mean, you want to sign them to paying contracts to play sports, have collective bargaining for revenue sharing, establish free agency rules, have a school sponsored compensation cap (not including outside NIL, just like the pro leagues)......... but we want to be "amateur athletics."

Everything about compensation, about the portal jumping, about the tampering between teams screams: these players are employees of the schools for the school's sports business. Their student status is completely secondary to their value to the school as athletes.

A college employing pro athletes is a very long way from the usual academic mission of colleges.

A college employing coaches for millions of dollars is a long way from the usual academic mission of colleges, too. Yet no one seems to have any issue with that hypocrisy.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I get the legal basis for allowing NIL. I don’t fully understand why a sports league can’t regulate the eligibility for players. Further, what’s the difference between saying a guy has to sit a year after transferring and saying that he has to leave after four years of eligibility? Both are arbitrary rules that limit a player’s ability to hold a job.

This is exactly the lawsuit after players are declared employees:

The 4 years eligibility is illegal job discrimination.

It IS as arbitrary as the sit after transfer rule. The idea, especially in college basketball where "one and done" is common, that players enter college athletics for academics is dead and gone.

It shouldn't be that way, but it very much is, and the wholesale transfer and guys leaving after their freshman or sophomore year tells you, they came to play ball, not play school.

All of this is EXTREMELY sad for players at lesser schools who DO use their athletic gifts to get a scholarship and an education.

This is why the high revenue schools should do the right thing and get out of the schools and form pro leagues. It's the best thing to do for most college athletes. Let the elite teams turn pro away from the universities and let lesser skilled athletes benefit from the athletic scholarship system we've seen help lots of athletes succeed in life after sports.

 

[Delmar]

its not an unsolvable issue without congress.

Contracts. same way we keep coaches at schools.

That’s the direction I see. Don’t think Congress will be getting involved.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

This is exactly the lawsuit after players are declared employees:

The 4 years eligibility is illegal job discrimination.

It IS as arbitrary as the sit after transfer rule. The idea, especially in college basketball where "one and done" is common, that players enter college athletics for academics is dead and gone.

It shouldn't be that way, but it very much is, and the wholesale transfer and guys leaving after their freshman or sophomore year tells you, they came to play ball, not play school.

All of this is EXTREMELY sad for players at lesser schools who DO use their athletic gifts to get a scholarship and an education.

This is why the high revenue schools should do the right thing and get out of the schools and form pro leagues. It's the best thing to do for most college athletes. Let the elite teams turn pro away from the universities and let lesser skilled athletes benefit from the athletic scholarship system we've seen help lots of athletes succeed in life after sports.

The schools should get out of the schools if they are high revenue? How exactly does a school get out of s school?

 

[VolTull]

This is why the high revenue schools should do the right thing and get out of the schools and form pro leagues. It's the best thing to do for most college athletes. Let the elite teams turn pro away from the universities and let lesser skilled athletes benefit from the athletic scholarship system we've seen help lots of athletes succeed in life after sports.

A two-tiered approach?

 

[LouderVol]

If Napier was tampering and playing middle man as the suit states then it is absolutely partly his fault.

what level of middle man?

"Here is our boosters number, give him a call."

or

"Hey I was able to get the boosters to agree to an extra 75k, sending you the amendment to the deal now."

there is huge amount of variance there.

 

[lawgator1]

It was pretty blatant on your boys part…LOT of decimals!

I am unaware of any claim that UF or Napier intentionally lied to Rashada. Rather, the claim is that the booster who was originally behind it said he would route payments through his company but failed to do so because he was in process of selling it and then payments were not made on time, as agreed.

Georgia QB Jaden Rashada sues Florida coach Billy Napier, among others, over botched $13.85M NIL deal

Also named in the bombshell suit are a former Gators football staffer as well as a prominent booster

www.cbssports.com

To sway Rashada's decision, Hathcock and Castro-Walker offered the $13.85 million deal with $5.35 million, including a $500,000 signing bonus, to come through Hathcock's Velocity Automotive company and the rest through Gator Guard, the NIL collective that he started. Hathcock had previously committed to donating $12.6 million to the Gator Boosters, and early media reports stated the Gator Guard raised $5 million in its first 24 hours.

Before the deal was finalized, however, Hathcock informed Rashada's representatives that he no longer wanted to route the NIL payments through his company because he planned to sell it, according to the lawsuit. Instead, he and Castro-Walker proposed money coming directly from Hathcock and the rest coming through the Gator Collective, Florida's other NIL collective.

At best, the lawsuit claims that Napier knew that Hathcock was not going to follow through, per that article, but there was another collective that raised millions for it and the allegation is not that Napier knew they weren't going to pay him at all, just that he knew it would not go through that earlier agreed mechanism.

Think about this for just a second: it makes absolutely no sense for a coach to intentionally lie to a player about what the NIL will pay him. It would invariably blow up and look bad, just like this. Even worse if it turned out Napier was conspiring with boosters to make false promises. There's just no reason to do so, relative to the fallout when it didn't go through as agreed.

This case is a prime example of lack of communication between two different NIL sources, the coaches, and the player. I can see why he sued everyone to get at the dollars, but the idea that it was planned out this way by Napier and others is simply absurd on its face.