It's day 2 of the early signing period...

#79
#79
utvols74 said:
I can't help but think that better performance in the second half against Vanderbilt producing a "W" thus projecting UT to bowl-season excitement and further development wouldn't have flipped a 4* (or 2, 3, etc.). That game has echos into next fall. If the rumor is true about the locker-room, half-time antics, then someone (coachs/players/admin) needs to be taken behind the wood-shed big time.
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I kinda agree. At the end of the Kentucky game, after the close loss to SC and win at Auburn, we were getting all sorts of positive press, as was Pruitt. For the life of me, I can't figure how we played so poorly vs Vandy and Miz. If we won one of those games, or closed out SC, I think we'd probably have had a couple more flip our way.
 
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#80
#80
Brave Volunteer said:
If there wasn't a near 100% correlation between successful football programs and their recruiting class rankings, I would completely dismiss the notion of star rankings. However there IS, therefore I am sort of forced to pay attention to it. I've been saying it for a while but if we are content with winning between 7-9 games per year and going to a bowl game, then we should be fine with what we are doing in recruiting. However if we want to be serious about competing for SEC/National Championships, we need to start consistently finishing somewhere in the top 5 in recruiting year in and year out.
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I keep seeing this argument and variants.

So you're a 5* recruit. Would you sign for UT now, in our current condition, or would you go with more of a known quantity?

I read a similar argument that Dooley's classes were ranked pretty high, and Butch's were a little lower, and Pruitt's are lower again, and therefore Pruitt is a crappier recruiter than Butch or Dooley. Well guess what, for each year that we flop around like fish on the bottom of the boat, it's going to be harder and harder for a 5* and his family to believe that we will be nationally competitive in the 3-4 years that he might be here. So yes, it gets tougher and tougher to sign the 4's and 5's.

Of course we want to have recruiting classes ranked in the top five. But wishin' don't make it so, not right now. We have to start climbing back up the hill to attract higher-ranked recruits, and that means working with the guys we're signing now. After a while, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: players who consider themselves winners will want to sign with a winner. In the meantime, it's the "p" word (patience).

I wish I understood why people fail to grasp this. Or would rather ignore it and continue to publicly whine.
 
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#83
#83
VolNExile said:
I keep seeing this argument and variants.

So you're a 5* recruit. Would you sign for UT now, in our current condition, or would you go with more of a known quantity?

I read a similar argument that Dooley's classes were ranked pretty high, and Butch's were a little lower, and Pruitt's are lower again, and therefore Pruitt is a crappier recruiter than Butch or Dooley. Well guess what, for each year that we flop around like fish on the bottom of the boat, it's going to be harder and harder for a 5* and his family to believe that we will be nationally competitive in the 3-4 years that he might be here. So yes, it gets tougher and tougher to sign the 4's and 5's.

Of course we want to have recruiting classes ranked in the top five. But wishin' don't make it so, not right now. We have to start climbing back up the hill to attract higher-ranked recruits, and that means working with the guys we're signing now. After a while, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: players who consider themselves winners will want to sign with a winner. In the meantime, it's the "p" word (patience").

I wish I understood why people fail to grasp this. Or would rather ignore it and continue to publicly whine.
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No one "fails" to grasp this. But we've been sold on this for 10 years and 3 coaches. Why should we believe this situation is any different? Frankly I'm a little surprised and disappointed in Pruitts second recruiting class. I thought after having a full year and a staff of "amazing" recruiters, he would have made a much bigger splash and have this class ranked higher than what it is. Im especially surprised at how we've failed to land so many of the high rated in state recruits for a 2nd year in a row. That is unacceptable! Yeah I know, hard to sell 5-7. But remember, CBJ had to sell 5-7 too and his 2nd recruiting class was ranked much higher.
 
#84
#84
But remember, CBJ had to sell 5-7 too and his 2nd recruiting class was ranked much higher.

Wasnt that the "legacy class" that included McKenzie, Bates, Wharton, Kelly, Creamer, etc? As a recruiting class, it was very overrated.
 
#85
#85
Brave Volunteer said:
No one "fails" to grasp this. But we've been sold on this for 10 years and 3 coaches. Why should we believe this situation is any different? Frankly I'm a little surprised and disappointed in Pruitts second recruiting class. I thought after having a full year and a staff of "amazing" recruiters, he would have made a much bigger splash and have this class ranked higher than what it is. Im especially surprised at how we've failed to land so many of the high rated in state recruits for a 2nd year in a row. That is unacceptable! Yeah I know, hard to sell 5-7. But remember, CBJ had to sell 5-7 too and his 2nd recruiting class was ranked much higher.
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All the eggs have not hatched, but if one thinsk all the remaining eggs are rotten, then go ahead and stop counting.
 
#86
#86
BigOrangeMojo said:
I bet they do.

Over a four year period (which is the approximate NFL career length), over 5,000 kids will be rated 3*. If you divide 26/5000 , that is 1/2 of 1% of all 3* players that make the Pro Bowl. There are approximately 120 5* over a 4 year period. If only 1 5* makes the Pro Bowl, that's 1%, or twice the percentage.
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Me and my 83 to 87 UT education say, " 2 plus 2 equals 4 and 5 stars are better than 3."
 
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#87
#87
wmcovol said:
But remember, CBJ had to sell 5-7 too and his 2nd recruiting class was ranked much higher.

Wasnt that the "legacy class" that included McKenzie, Bates, Wharton, Kelly, Creamer, etc? As a recruiting class, it was very overrated.
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It was the class that included Jalen Hurd, Derek Barnett, Evan & Elliott Berry, Jashon Robertson, TK Jr, Josh Malone, Marquez North, etc.
 
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#88
#88
Brave Volunteer said:
No one "fails" to grasp this. But we've been sold on this for 10 years and 3 coaches. Why should we believe this situation is any different? Frankly I'm a little surprised and disappointed in Pruitts second recruiting class. I thought after having a full year and a staff of "amazing" recruiters, he would have made a much bigger splash and have this class ranked higher than what it is. Im especially surprised at how we've failed to land so many of the high rated in state recruits for a 2nd year in a row. That is unacceptable! Yeah I know, hard to sell 5-7. But remember, CBJ had to sell 5-7 too and his 2nd recruiting class was ranked much higher.
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And there had been fewer dismal years when CBJ was recruiting his classes, and I would think that it would be easier to convince recruits that things would turn around quickly. Whereas CJP has that many more years of bad football to overcome in his recruiting.

That's what I was trying to say. Sort of a version of where plenty of us marry someone who has been married and divorced once, but we would probably think more than twice if they'd gone through the mill 4 or 5 times. It's a little harder to be optimistic that this time things will be different.
 
#89
#89
Brave Volunteer said:
It was the class that included Jalen Hurd, Derek Barnett, Evan & Elliott Berry, Jashon Robertson, TK Jr, Josh Malone, Marquez North, etc.
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North was in Butch's first year (Dooley recruit actually) Im pretty sure. You are correct that Hurd, Robertson, Berry twins, Malone and Barnett were part of Jones 2nd class, "legacy class".
 
#91
#91
MWAVolfan said:
We shouldnt be too worried about getting the top guys in TN. Butch focused on that and look where it got us. We need to get the best players in America, not the best players in TN. If the best players in TN happen to also be the best players in America, then we should focus on them.
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There is a certain amount of quid pro quo in football circles too though. There is some good talent in Memphis and Nashville and if u offer, show some love, and recruit hard that three star guy the high school coach will remember that later when he has the 4-5 star guy. Not saying we lock some scrubs in tn but there is a certain mix required.
 
#95
#95
Boca Vol said:
You bring up a great point. Bama's 2nd and 3rd string could beat 11 or 12 of the 14 teams in the SEC. Their practices are raised to the next level because of the competition.
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But mostly because Bama's 2nd and stringers are just more 4 and 5 stars...they have 63 in total, almost a full 3-deep lol
 
#96
#96
ShooterVFL said:
Well if your goal as a Vols fan is to see how many 3* we can put in a pro bowl then those facts might matter. If you’re like me on the other hand and care more about winning SEC and NCAA championships, those facts don’t mean crap. You’re right when you say people can spin it any way they want. That’s exactly what you’re doing by trying to use data from the NFL to make a NCAA argument. Look at the recruiting classes of the last 10 SEC and NCAA championship winners (you know, what we’re actually trying to accomplish) and you’ll discover the only facts that matter.
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Both matter, are highly correlated, and true. Trying to win rings, but also get guys in the league.

2 pro bowl teams include 88 players and yet only 26 are 3 stars?? lol those are poor odds for 3 stars. I'll take our chances with 4 and 5 stars!
 
#97
#97
Vol4ever said:
I bet they don't.
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Simple math says they do. 5 stars are ~8x more likely than average to be a pro bowler, 4 stars about 3x more likely, 3 stars are about on par. 2 stars are 4x less likely than average, or a 3 star. Unranked is a number approaching infinitely less likely, since you might have to consider every male in America as part of that pool.
 
#98
#98
Pride85 said:
You are correct, there is a higher percentage. It is also a fact that they powers that be miss VERY badly as well. See if you recognize any of these players from LAST year's Pro Bowl that were either 2 stars or not even rated coming out of high school.

2 Star
Khalil Mack
Aqib Talib

Not rated
Antonio Brown
Tom Brady
Ben Roethlisberger
Michael Bennett
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Let's use our god given brains for a second here...Brady was recruited and signed with UM, at one if their historical peaks no less. Do you think Brady was a walk-on or something? No, he just predated most recruiting services in '95. A service here or there may have tried to compile a top 25 list or something, but it's not like today. Most older fans say he would have been a high 4 star out of hs if they had to guess.

Is this outdated? Not sure about that list...I know Brown didn't get picked.
 
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#99
#99
Brave Volunteer said:
Yeah I know, hard to sell 5-7. But remember, CBJ had to sell 5-7 too and his 2nd recruiting class was ranked much higher.
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Yall gotta start following average recruit rating, not just class ranking, which can be a bit smoke and mirrors with inflated class sizes.

Butch's was 7th, but with 32 commits (of which about 8 left before Summer...). Sidenote: data shows signing these huge classes leads to higher attrition rates anyway. Average recruit of 89.5.

This class should end around 9th-12th with about 23-25 kids. The 5* transfer makes it pragmatically even higher. Average recruit will be about 90.6.

Also, each year is different in how other teams finish. That #7 class finished with 274 points on 247. This class will end with 270, so it would have been 8th that year. Add the transfer in and it'd be 5th place in 2014.

Really no difference, but this class is certainly better so far. Higher quality players, which is what we need. Quality > quantity.
 
#100
#100
Devo182 said:
Let's use our god given brains for a second here...Brady was recruited and signed with UM, at one if their historical peaks no less. Do you think Brady was a walk-on or something? No, he just predated most recruiting services in '95. A service here or there may have tried to compile a top 25 list or something, but it's not like today. Most older fans say he would have been a high 4 star out of hs if they had to guess.

Is this outdated? Not sure about that list...I know Brown didn't get picked.
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Not outdated. Recruiting rankings of this year's pro bowl. Why should I use my god given brain. There are some on here that haven't used theirs yet. something
 
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