ISIS Takes Control of Mosul

#1,777
#1,777
lawgator1 said:
Stupid web site for stupid people, to be taken advantage of by charismatics.

Did you click and donate?
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I actually met him once. I was dubious at first, but after talking to him I wasn't. I've read 2 of his books. I don't know about his website, but the man himself is pretty genuine.
 
#1,778
#1,778
Grand Vol said:
Because the majority of the population in Iraq is Shi'a.
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And Saddam was Sunni so we wanted to get rid of all things associated with Saddam. That was a mistake as they were the ones who knew how to run the country. We should have developed a process of reintegration of the former Bath party members and should have done a better job making the government balanced. We wanted to take our hands off and let then decide despite the fact we had upset the balance of power. We ignored history and Daesh is the result.
 
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#1,779
#1,779
YorkVol said:
And Saddam was Sunni so we wanted to get rid of all things associated with Saddam. That was a mistake as they were the ones who knew how to run the country. We should have developed a process of reintegration of the former Bath party members and should have done a better job making the government balanced. We wanted to take our hands off and let then decide despite the fact we had upset the balance of power. We ignored history and Daesh is the result.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: We should have cut Hussein loose when Nick Berg was murdered
 
#1,780
#1,780
YorkVol said:
And Saddam was Sunni so we wanted to get rid of all things associated with Saddam. That was a mistake as they were the ones who knew how to run the country. We should have developed a process of reintegration of the former Bath party members and should have done a better job making the government balanced. We wanted to take our hands off and let then decide despite the fact we had upset the balance of power. We ignored history and Daesh is the result.
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It's another one of the crazy instances of history that we'd forgotten. Patton got into all sorts of trouble for not taking the Nazi party members out of the infrastructure in occupied Germany until more trained workers were brought in. A decision that got him relieved. But the infrastructure still moved along even with former Nazi party members at the helm.

We were in a hurry to pull anything Ba'ath out of the Iraqi government that nobody else knew how to run things. A complete 180 of what Patton did and it showed in the hampering of any reconciliation and rebuilding.
 
#1,782
#1,782
Such a great mix of tin foil hatery, lack knowledge on foreign policy, lack of knowledge on counter insurgency theory, and the knowledgable posters trying to reign in the loonies!
 
#1,783
#1,783
and again out of all the different forces fighting ISIS none of them want any of the others to win. Kurds, Syrians, Iraqis, Iranians, Jordanians, Saudis, Americans, Turks, and i am sure i am missing a few others. The saudi's and kurds don't want Syria, Iraq or Iran to win. The Turks don't want Syria to win. The Iraqi's don't really care about syria or vise versa. Iran is interested in Iraq, because they want to merge the countries or see Iraq become subservient to Iran. Not quite sure where the Jordanians fall but pretty sure they have a beef with Assad as well (could be wrong). Iraq has kicked us out, then begged us back. Syria has done the same, publicly kicking us out and then turning around to say we aren't doing enough. Saudis and Turks want us to start targeting the other various governmental forces. none of the nations want the Kurds to become powerful and push towards independence. we definitely have problems with Assad and Iran but thankfully no conflicts yet. Then you have to throw in the other various rebels/terrorists in the area, including the ones that for no good reason we gave money too. (this is indirectly where i agree that we are helping ISIS because they keep taking the stuff we give to non Kurds) its not a coherent fight, and ISIS is in small groups so we can never deliver a fatal blow as they are too spread out to hit all at once, and no ground force over there is either big enough, trained/competent enough or driven enough to do the job. and even if there was ONE force that was there are too many borders for ISIS to cross and get out of that force's range.
 
#1,793
#1,793
agent|orange said:
I should have been more clear.

"Boots back on the ground in large numbers as a central force opposing ISIL..."
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That, I think, is only a matter of time. Even in "adviser" roles, they will get in contact eventually and the chances of putting more troops on the ground will be substantially increased.

And heaven forbid one gets their head cut off on camera, the public outcry won't allow us to back down.
 
#1,794
#1,794
Grand Vol said:
It's another one of the crazy instances of history that we'd forgotten. Patton got into all sorts of trouble for not taking the Nazi party members out of the infrastructure in occupied Germany until more trained workers were brought in. A decision that got him relieved. But the infrastructure still moved along even with former Nazi party members at the helm.

We were in a hurry to pull anything Ba'ath out of the Iraqi government that nobody else knew how to run things. A complete 180 of what Patton did and it showed in the hampering of any reconciliation and rebuilding.
Click to expand...

We did the same in Japan. MacArthur left most of the bureaucracy in place and kept the emperor in power and things ran smoothly. He also wrote most of the constitution and had them ratify it.
 
#1,795
#1,795
Grand Vol said:
That, I think, is only a matter of time. Even in "adviser" roles, they will get in contact eventually and the chances of putting more troops on the ground will be substantially increased.

And heaven forbid one gets their head cut off on camera, the public outcry won't allow us to back down.
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If we do this we need to seriously redo the Iraqi government.
 
#1,796
#1,796
YorkVol said:
If we do this we need to seriously redo the Iraqi government.
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If that's the case, I'd rather they cut the country into three like we should have before. Kurdistan (screw any other nation that objects), a Sunni portion in the middle and a Shi'a in the south.

Just get it over with.
 
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#1,797
#1,797
Grand Vol said:
That, I think, is only a matter of time. Even in "adviser" roles, they will get in contact eventually and the chances of putting more troops on the ground will be substantially increased.

And heaven forbid one gets their head cut off on camera, the public outcry won't allow us to back down.
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So why create that risk to save a military that doesn't have the will to preserve whatever we save for them?
 
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#1,799
#1,799
Grand Vol said:
Call it a vested interest. At least that will be the excuse used.

You and I both know it's only a matter of time.
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Do you think it possible that significant US boots on the ground is exactly what ISIS wants? I do. One, it gives them legitimacy. Two, it feeds the religious war they want to have. Three, it pits us against other ME countries all over again.

I really do not agree that it is inevitable. The 2016 election will be a lot about that issue, and other than RP the GOP candidate is pretty much committed to more war in Iraq, which the electorate by and large opposes.
 
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#1,800
#1,800
lawgator1 said:
Do you think it possible that significant US boots on the ground is exactly what ISIS wants? I do. One, it gives them legitimacy. Two, it feeds the religious war they want to have. Three, it pits us against other ME countries all over again.

I really do not agree that it is inevitable. The 2016 election will be a lot about that issue, and other than RP the GOP candidate is pretty much committed to more war in Iraq, which the electorate by and large opposes.
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I think people worry that if ISIS really gets themselves in a position to do so they genuinely will, to the best of their ability, bring their war to us.
 
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