Is Helfrich @ OC a legit discussion?

#326
#326
Orange&White said:
I agree, and while some recruits are concerned with coaching turnover, if you bring in names like that they'll only see an upgrade and probably want to come to Tennessee more than before.
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Yes and with Helfrich coming in I think that's definitely help with QB recruiting in the future! Hope it happens
 
#327
#327
Orange&White said:
From what I've read, DeBord would move to Co-OC/OL and Helfrich would be Co-OC/QB. However, I haven't seen anything about Mahoney. Obviously for DeBord to move to OL, Mahoney would need to be fired. Also, with Helfirch potentially joining the staff, would he be ok with a Co-OC role. There are still a lot of questions to be answered.
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Hopefully Butch does like last year and does the changes right after the bowl game. Could possibly sway some recruits if you get those guys.

I'm fine with Debord being Co-OC but idk about OL? I know he has a lot of experience working with OL but when was the last time that was his job exclusively?
 
#330
#330
Orange&White said:
I agree, and while some recruits are concerned with coaching turnover, if you bring in names like that they'll only see an upgrade and probably want to come to Tennessee more than before.
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The #1 reason programs like UGA and Clemson have been spanking us in recruiting this year, is because the position coaches/assistants at these programs have significantly better track records at either coaching in the NFL or putting guys in the NFL than UT's staff does. Jones's current staff would recruit well in the MAC or the WAC, but pales in comparison to others in the SEC. If Jones is to be "the guy" for the Vols, the first thing he needs to do is clean up the S&C mess and the second is to upgrade his coaching staff.
 
#331
#331
MrVolton said:
The #1 reason programs like UGA and Clemson have been spanking us in recruiting this year, is because the position coaches/assistants at these programs have significantly better track records at either coaching in the NFL or putting guys in the NFL than UT's staff does. Jones's current staff would recruit well in the MAC or the WAC, but pales in comparison to others in the SEC. If Jones is to be "the guy" for the Vols, the first thing he needs to do is clean up the S&C mess and the second is to upgrade his coaching staff.
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Agreed. I think Butch knows it as well. The writing was on the wall with Mahoney and Martinez since last off season. I think he brings in the Rock for S&C and I think he does make the necessary upgrades. I guess you could say I'm cautiously optimistic that he will do what needs to be done.
 
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#332
#332
Nash_Vol97 said:
Agreed. I think Butch knows it as well. The writing was on the wall with Mahoney and Martinez since last off season. I think he brings in the Rock for S&C and I think he does make the necessary upgrades. I guess you could say I'm cautiously optimistic that he will do what needs to be done.
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Cautiously optimistic is a good way to describe how I feel about this as well. I think the Shoop move proved that the money will be there to make the necessary upgrades, I'm more concerned about Jones trusting the guys he brings in to do what he hires them to do and to do it their way.
 
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#333
#333
MrVolton said:
Cautiously optimistic is a good way to describe how I feel about this as well. I think the Shoop move proved that the money will be there to make the necessary upgrades, I'm more concerned about Jones trusting the guys he brings in to do what he hires them to do and to do it their way.
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If he does make this hire and trusts him to run his offense. How long will it take the players to grasp the concept? The terminolgy? thats what im worried about. We may run a similar offense to Oregon but its not the oregon offense.
 
#334
#334
aRmo said:
If he does make this hire and trusts him to run his offense. How long will it take the players to grasp the concept? The terminolgy? thats what im worried about. We may run a similar offense to Oregon but its not the oregon offense.
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I think that depends more on what kind of teacher Helfrich is. I am not a football coach, but it seems that changing some of the terminology to ease the transition could be nothing, while monkeying around with the overall concept/scheme would be a lot bigger deal. From what I gather, what Shoop ran this year looks nothing like what he ran at his previous stops (we ran primarily a nickel base, when he typically ran a 4-3 base with star linebacker before). Seems to me that a head coach meddling too much with his coordinator's scheme (see Shoop '16, Clawfense '08) could be just as detrimental.

If you feel like the guy is good enough to make him a millionaire, then you've got to think he's good enough to call the shots on things like that.
 
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#335
#335
aRmo said:
If he does make this hire and trusts him to run his offense. How long will it take the players to grasp the concept? The terminolgy? thats what im worried about. We may run a similar offense to Oregon but its not the oregon offense.
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Yeah, those are legitimate concerns. I would agree with MrVoltron above me too, most of it will come down to how good a teacher Helfrich is. Chip Kelly praised Helfrich about how good of a teacher and communicator he was so hopefully it won't be an issue. I don't think the transition would be too tough but you never know with these types of things.
 
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#336
#336
The Oregon offense was basically all Chip Kelly and Helfrich learned it from there, so the big question would be what style of offense did he run at his other stops and is he dedicated to his offense or is he one of those rare coordinators that can grasp and tweak and run any style?
 
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#340
#340
MrVolton said:
No, but it might be enough to sway any similarly talented prospects that aspire to be like him.
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Plus think about what he could do with JG. Similar playing styles and JG is actually rated higher than Marriott is coming out. There is a reason JG was the top dual threat in HS
 
#341
#341
I think this is a wishful thinking scenario. I understand maybe we are in talks but I doubt 1) Butch would allow a different style of offense besides his own to be brought in or 2) Helfrich scraps his offense and runs what Butch wants when Butch is on the hot seat. It might be the pessimist in me but I doubt it.

Hoke and Fair make sense though. Would be fine with either one of them.
 
#342
#342
JohnMcA60 said:
I think this is a wishful thinking scenario. I understand maybe we are in talks but I doubt 1) Butch would allow a different style of offense besides his own to be brought in or 2) Helfrich scraps his offense and runs what Butch wants when Butch is on the hot seat. It might be the pessimist in me but I doubt it.

Hoke and Fair make sense though. Would be fine with either one of them.
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Even if they paid Helfrich 1 million and saved his a$$ it would be worth it to him to keep his 4.1 salary because he knows nobody is stupid enough to pay him that anywhere.
 
#344
#344
Also I believe Larry did say we had at least put out interest to Helfrich. With what Jav said it looks like we're at least trying to upgrade several coaching positions. That's a very good sign to me. Butch has always ran a clean program, academics have been good, recruiting has been awesome as well, to me all that's missing is the positional coaching to be successful. I think shoop probably is the real deal but getting his system in place, getting assistants that can teach and implement it and getting the younger players up to speed right away was a little too much this year. Defensive system has worked everywhere else he has been including versus the SEC. I think it's just going to take some time to implement everything.
 
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#345
#345
DaddyChad said:
Also I believe Larry did say we had at least put out interest to Helfrich. With what Jav said it looks like we're at least trying to upgrade several coaching positions. That's a very good sign to me. Butch has always ran a clean program, academics have been good, recruiting has been awesome as well, to me all that's missing is the positional coaching to be successful. I think shoop probably is the real deal but getting his system in place, getting assistants that can teach and implement it and getting the younger players up to speed right away was a little too much this year. Defensive system has worked everywhere else he has been including versus the SEC. I think it's just going to take some time to implement everything.
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Slow clap for you sir. You get it. But I agree, it does take time to implement new schemes and concepts. However, with Helfrich I feel like it would be an easy transition. The defense with Shoop should be vastly improved next year since he should have a say in who we bring in and the fact that the players will have a year under his system.

If Butch makes these upgrades it shows to me that he is trying to be successful here at Tennessee and willing to do whatever it takes to make that happen. The best part of the last three years was that we continued to show progress, this was the first year where we took a step back under Butch. It was concerning to all of us. He still shows the signs of being out coached by opponents, lack of making in-game adjustments, questionable situational play calling, and the inability to relinquish control of the program. I think he needs to finally understand he cannot do it on his own and allow the coordinators and assistants to do their jobs. Not only does this allow the coordinators we pay a lot of money run their schemes, but it takes a lot of stress off Butch too. I hope he is able to make the necessary changes and decisions, and get us back on track. We need to upgrade our staff to be competitive in the SEC, we have too many poor assistants not doing their job on the current staff (Martinez, Mahoney). I'm not happy with this season, but I'll support him as long as he is our coach.
 
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#348
#348
landscapingvol said:
If you are the definition of the "grown-ups" class then I will kindly stay where I am in reality. Do let me know when Gruden signs his contract, won't you kindly? Thanks in advance!
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Instead of talking about why a certain coach would not come here, I would like to hear more about when the boosters are going to do something about our insignificant mediocre program.

People like to blame Mike Hamilton for the downfall of the program when he was just a pawn and did what the boosters told him to do. Tennessee does not have the class of boosters to have a great program, and it may never happen again.
 
#349
#349
onevol74 said:
Instead of talking about why a certain coach would not come here, I would like to hear more about when the boosters are going to do something about our insignificant mediocre program.

People like to blame Mike Hamilton for the downfall of the program when he was just a pawn and did what the boosters told him to do. Tennessee does not have the class of boosters to have a great program, and it may never happen again.
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That's where Blackburn comes in. Tennessee has the money and big time donors to run with the elite programs, and obviously you have to appease them. However, Blackburn will do what is best for the Tennessee program, not our donors. I am not saying he will ignore them, but he will have a good way of working with them and still doing what is best for the program. Plus I think the boosters will be a lot more comfortable with Blackburn and knowing that he is someone who understands how to run a program and how to take Tennessee to the next level. It's only a bonus that he is a Tennessee guy.
 
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#350
#350
Assuming Debord leaves, The new OC needs complete control. Along with that new OC, we need a line coach that can progress players not get worse. QD starts if Debord is there. JG if someone else IMO.
 
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