Iran

[volbound1700]

It’s easier to live under oppression than it is to break free from it

I’d imagine they also don’t want their family slaughtered

It is probably even deeper than that. I think more Iranians support the regime than we realize. Islam probably has a bigger hold and the army is conservative men. Men haven't necessarily had it well in the West lately (well non wealthy men), so it is hard to make that argument... there is problem a reason why the Afghan men and army rolled over for the Taliban, they may not want Democracy and Feminism.

 

[rekinhavoc]

How 'bout if we take over Kharg Island? Seems to me that'd help our power/negotiating position without hurting civilians

Surround the island with mines.

 

[85SugarVol]

Do you think we've received a full and honest reporting of this war? Just seems so much has been left out wrt the damage done to US or Israeli interests

I would imagine there has almost certainly been some obfuscation/omission with regards to damage reports.

I don’t believe the Ford was actually hit.
I don’t believe they’ve covered up any airframe losses, or KIAs.

But yea, the actual extent of damage to embassies and facilities (especially in Israel)? Sure.

A full accounting wouldn’t change the calculus of who won on the battlefield, though.

The US Military is not the problem.
The US Government is.

 

[rikberry31]

To attack an enemy, knowing full well they are lunatics into an existential war, knowing what extreme measures they are likely to employ in advance, and then to eliminate complete and total self blame for initiating this process on yourself entirely is a stupid take. It really is man.

We can’t control their crazy, but we at least are trying to control our crazy.

So we should let the crazies roam the street and then set women on fire on the subway? NYC is doing that. The libs ignoring, appeasing, and excusing nut bags and criminal aint working and it doesn't work for terrorists.

 

[Vol8188]

That just makes it even worse.

We kicked their teeth in “on the battlefield”, and they’re going to come out on top in the end.

Incomprehensible ineptitude.

We will see. Honestly there’s a way forward that has both come out ahead (give up nuclear ambitions in return for sanction relief).

But we will see if that happens.

 

[Vol8188]

I would imagine there has almost certainly been some obfuscation/omission with regards to damage reports.

I don’t believe the Ford was actually hit.
I don’t believe they’ve covered up any airframe losses, or KIAs.

But yea, the actual extent of damage to embassies and facilities (especially in Israel)? Sure.

A full accounting wouldn’t change the calculus of who won on the battlefield, though.

The US Military is not the problem.
The US Government is.

Some in this thread want to believe any Iranian misinformation they can find.

 

[MontyPython]

They told us they already had 1000 lbs of 60% enriched uranium. They had a massive arsenal of drones and ballistic missiles. They were the sponsor of most of the terrorism in the world. They were holding the ME hostage.
They did not have a nuclear program, they had nuclear material and were bent on rebuilding their enrichment program that was destroyed last year

So you're saying they're not a nuclear threat.

Again: Why are we at war with Iran then?

 

[Persian Vol]

I understand that context of your post. Also, I can appreciate that is was crafted as a specific reply to another poster. I would like to expand on your thoughts and take it in a slightly different direction.

"We can't control their crazy" seems to be the justification for how we approach Iran. And many people, even those who oppose the current "war", agree with the concept that crazy must be neutralized before the crazies do something horrific. On our own soil, we see the rationale applied to the Branch Davidian Cult in Waco, TX during Clinton's presidency. Many people feel that was justified because of the reports of weaponry on their compound. In fact, I would go so far as to say many said that was the smart thing to do because we couldn't risk crazy people doing crazy things with extremely lethal weaponry.

Pivot back toward Iran. If the rationale outlined above is smart, justified, necessary, then certainly it is true for crazy attempting to enrich nuclear material to be nuclear weapon capable. That level of weaponry is on a magnitude exponentially more threatening that anything found at a compound in Texas. Furthermore, that crazy and the threat they pose is in a dangerously close proximity to the liquid which runs the planet. It is easy to see how those who favor military action come to their conclusions.

I am not saying I agree with preemptive action on crazy. In fact, I don't until the suspected threat is actually realized.

I don’t disagree with the notion that the Iranian regime must be eliminated, but I don’t think people have a realistic expectation of what that entails. We can’t bomb our way out of this. And they will do anything in their capacity to prevent that, even if that means setting other countries in the Middle East on fire with them.

If Americans want to rid ourselves of an Iranian threat I simply do not see a way to do so other than two options.

1) A full scale ground invasion with aims of regime change, that would make the Iraq war look like child’s play economically and in terms of causalities.

2) Counter intuitively we tell Israel to kick rocks, relieve sanctions, and pull out of the Middle East altogether, lowering all incentive for Iran to be hostile. The likelihood of nuclear war in this scenario is non zero, but no more than with China or Russia currently.

 

[utvolpj]

I would imagine there has almost certainly been some obfuscation/omission with regards to damage reports.

I don’t believe the Ford was actually hit.
I don’t believe they’ve covered up any airframe losses, or KIAs.

But yea, the actual extent of damage to embassies and facilities (especially in Israel)? Sure.

A full accounting wouldn’t change the calculus of who won on the battlefield, though.

The US Military is not the problem.
The US Government is.

Not sure it wouldn't. I haven't seen any damage reports from the US but the ones I have heard aren't good.

I just need a little better accounting from a govt that used the phrase "completely and totally obliterated" just a few months ago

 

[Persian Vol]

So we should let the crazies roam the street and then set women on fire on the subway? NYC is doing that. The libs ignoring, appeasing, and excusing nut bags and criminal aint working and it doesn't work for terrorists.

No seriously, can you please send a copy of your search history.

 

[VAVol85]

I don’t see how hitting civilian infrastructure is going to “win” the war.

From a strategic standpoint, how will inflicting damage to civilian infrastructure help in a war in which we are hoping for an internal revolution while maintaining good favor with the civilian population in an instance where the government could give less of a **** about what happens to civilians and their quality of life? All we would do is further nationalize anti American sentiment, which would be catastrophic as that is the one thing we actually have going for us.

The only way to achieve lasting results is to keep attacking the military chain of command until it is weaker than the political leaders who are willing to negotiate. Creating havoc with military funding especially for troop pay is also helpful.

 

[McDad]

I don’t disagree with the notion that the Iranian regime must be eliminated, but I don’t think people have a realistic expectation of what that entails. We can’t bomb our way out of this. And they will do anything in their capacity to prevent that, even if that means setting other countries in the Middle East on fire with them.

100%

If Americans want to rid ourselves of an Iranian threat I simply do not see a way to do so other than two options.

1) A full scale ground invasion with aims of regime change, that would make the Iraq war look like child’s play economically and in terms of causalities.

100%

2) Counter intuitively we tell Israel to kick rocks, relieve sanctions, and pull out of the Middle East altogether, lowering all incentive for Iran to be hostile. The likelihood of nuclear war in this scenario is non zero, but no more than with China or Russia currently.

Worth a shot but not confident this would ratchet-down the crazy found in the regime.

 

[rikberry31]

So you're saying they're not a nuclear threat.

Again: Why are we at war with Iran then?

Not anymore. They did have a very robust nuclear weapons program. We wiped the enrichment capabilities (the ability to make fissionable material) last year. Now we wiping out their long range delivery systems and we are after the dangerous atomic material that they have and made previously.
They still are a atomic threat. If they could get at that 1000 lb that lies under rubble they would make a dirty bomb and use it in a heartbeat. If they ever armed one of those cluster bomb missiles with it, that would be a nightmare.

 

[CobbVol]

 

[Persian Vol]

100%

100%

Worth a shot but not confident this would ratchet-down the crazy found in the regime.

They are ideological, treat their people terribly, but they are not suicide aggressors. This will be catastrophic for Israel not because they will actually Nuke Israel, but that this would mean Israel would never be free of operating as freely as they are now with the threat of Iran looming over. But why is that our problem that we have to put ourselves at risk for? They’ll behave in a way similar to Russia now. But again, why does this have to be our problem?

 

[MontyPython]

I don’t disagree with the notion that the Iranian regime must be eliminated, but I don’t think people have a realistic expectation of what that entails. We can’t bomb our way out of this. And they will do anything in their capacity to prevent that, even if that means setting other countries in the Middle East on fire with them.

If Americans want to rid ourselves of an Iranian threat I simply do not see a way to do so other than two options.

1) A full scale ground invasion with aims of regime change, that would make the Iraq war look like child’s play economically and in terms of causalities.

2) Counter intuitively we tell Israel to kick rocks, relieve sanctions, and pull out of the Middle East altogether, lowering all incentive for Iran to be hostile. The likelihood of nuclear war in this scenario is non zero, but no more than with China or Russia currently.

This.

We attacked Iran because Israel attacked Iran. Trump was dumb enough to get dragged into this by Bibi.

"AMERICA FIRST!!!"

“We knew that there was going to be an Israeli action… [and] that would precipitate an attack against American forces… so we acted preemptively.”

-Marco Rubio, March 2, 2026

 

[rikberry31]

No seriously, can you please send a copy of your search history.

Typical lib, can't win their arguments or policies so they fall back to insults. Just save time and skip the lead up. Just call me a racist Nazi right now, that is where it always ends.

 

[Persian Vol]

Typical lib, can't win their arguments or policies so they fall back to insults. Just save time and skip the lead up. Just call me a racist Nazi right now, that is where it always ends.

You’re probably a racist nazi

 

[MontyPython]

Not anymore. They did have a very robust nuclear weapons program. We wiped the enrichment capabilities (the ability to make fissionable material) last year. Now we wiping out their long range delivery systems and we are after the dangerous atomic material that they have and made previously.
They still are a atomic threat. If they could get at that 1000 lb that lies under rubble they would make a dirty bomb and use it in a heartbeat. If they ever armed one of those cluster bomb missiles with it, that would be a nightmare.

So you're saying Iran is no longer a nuclear threat.

Ergo you agree that no further US military action is necessary in pursuit of ensuring Iran is no longer a nuclear threat, correct?

 

[BeardedVol]

Not anymore. They did have a very robust nuclear weapons program. We wiped the enrichment capabilities (the ability to make fissionable material) last year. Now we wiping out their long range delivery systems and we are after the dangerous atomic material that they have and made previously.
They still are a atomic threat. If they could get at that 1000 lb that lies under rubble they would make a dirty bomb and use it in a heartbeat. If they ever armed one of those cluster bomb missiles with it, that would be a nightmare.

No they did not. They'd never created and tested detonating a nuclear weapon.

There's a whole lot more to a nuclear weapons program than just enriching uranium to weapon's grade level.

Just ask Israel.

Israel spent $1.1b on nuclear weapons in 2023 | The Jerusalem Post

www.jpost.com

 

[McDad]

They are ideological, treat their people terribly, but they are not suicide aggressors. This will be catastrophic for Israel not because they will actually Nuke Israel, but that this would mean Israel would never be free of operating as freely as they are now with the threat of Iran looming over. But why is that our problem that we have to put ourselves at risk for? They’ll behave in a way similar to Russia now. But again, why does this have to be our problem?

It's our problem because:
+Alliances against 'common enemies' are stronger than Alliances for common good.
+It is our habit to insert ourselves into places we don't belong.
+Since our military is a hammer, we tend to see every problem as a nail.

 

[midnight orange]

Not to the same extent

I’m sure there will be arbitrage opportunities but American oil companies will sell to the highest bidder, American or not.

 

[Persian Vol]

It's our problem because:
+Alliances against 'common enemies' are stronger than Alliances for common good.
+It is our habit to insert ourselves into places we don't belong.
+Since our military is a hammer, we tend to see every problem as a nail.

All of those are within our control fortunately enough.

 

[McDad]

All of those are within our control fortunately enough.

They are. It's okay to admit there is no movement alive in the US with the numbers to change our current approaches though.

 

[utvolpj]

No they did not. They'd never created and tested detonating a nuclear weapon.

There's a whole lot more to a nuclear weapons program than just enriching uranium to weapon's grade level.

Just ask Israel.

Israel spent $1.1b on nuclear weapons in 2023 | The Jerusalem Post

www.jpost.com

It would seem that assistance is in direct violation on the Non-Proliferation treaty. Wonder how we get around that one