Iran

[GVF]

~72,000,000 unarmed civilians, zerging the ~18,000,000 who have all of the military hardware, is not a sound strategy, no matter how many times Israel suggests it.

Israel urges Iranians to revolt but privately assesses they’ll be ‘slaughtered’ - The Boston Globe

The regime killed thousands during wide-scale anti-government demonstrations earlier this year.

www.bostonglobe.com

That's my point. Acting POTUS is irrelevant. Doesn't matter who is up there. Unless you have been behind the scenes to have a change ready to roll when you start bombing, it will change nothing except turn a potentially fruitful operation into more hatred when you inadvertantly kill too many innocent civilians because that cannot and never has been 100% avoided. And we know how using the the CIA for that planning stage would work out. Got no issue with self defense or realiation. But, these type ops never work and never will. And you don't have to be in one camp or the other to know that.

 

[hog88]

Agreed. But there doesn't seem to be much to suggest the masses have the ability or desire to toss the current lot out

They probably have the desire, it's the ability they lack. I posted earlier that it will take a chunk of their regular Army to get the overthrow started.

 

[volfanhill]

They probably have the desire, it's the ability they lack. I posted earlier that it will take a chunk of their regular Army to get the overthrow started.

I agree. But that's part of the calculus on this that the admin did not take into consideration enough IMO. On top of that I would guess 25-30% of the country based on religious beliefs is A Ok with the regime. Makes it even harder to overthrow.

 

[GVF]

You have no issue with the DNI stating that if the President says there is an imminent threat, then there is an imminent threat, regardless of whether our intelligence supports that belief?

I'm saying that's your survival answer when your intel may differ, but POTUS has already decided and is not taking applications any longer. But, we don't rightly know what that intel was. We know now how the intel differed from what Bush said and did. Appears to be a carbon copy of that scenario IF the DNI has intel that says we should not be bombing. When we have had intel, and I'd be hard pressed to believe there was zero intel on 9/11, we did nothing with it. Except hit the road for a 20 year war instead of a 10 year Viet Nam. I didn't take issue one way or the other. Just stated an observation. You just don't walk up to the podium and say, we showed him all this contrary intel and he did it anyway. Don't asked baited questions.


Edit: Think of it as your management job at work with the big boss. He may say he wants to do something and it's a good call. You show him some stuff that may differ. He says no we gonna do this. What happens to you if you go out and say "they" instead of "we." I got those lectures as a manager long before I had hte opportunity to ignorantly screw it up. You didn't buck the brass. You could say the right things to survive without breaking rank if you felt differently, or you could find another job. But, you never publically bucked the brass to your subordinates or common folk.

 

[BeardedVol]

That's my point. Acting POTUS is irrelevant. Doesn't matter who is up there. Unless you have been behind the scenes to have a change ready to roll when you start bombing, it will change nothing except turn a potentially fruitful operation into more hatred when you inadvertantly kill too many innocent civilians because that cannot and never has been 100% avoided. And we know how using the the CIA for that planning stage would work out. Got no issue with self defense or realiation. But, these type ops never work and never will. And you don't have to be in one camp or the other to know that.

If we had done any prep work for this operation, smuggling in weapons through Iraq, making contact with people sympathetic to revolution and establishing some kind of internal communications with resistance elements, then maybe there's the option to turn a surgical air campaign into the precursor for a revolution, but we didn't do any serious planning for anything beyond supporting Israel with our own air power.

Evidenced by Trump being shocked that Iran would lash out and strike Gulf states allied with the US and close the Strait of Hormuz.

 

[Berry4Heisman14]

That boat floats both ways and is also the lib tactic. See it in here every day with the MAGA this and Racist that. Only two words some in here even know.

You’re not wrong. Anyone blindly loyal to a political party is brainwashed left or right

 

[BeardedVol]

I'm saying that's your survival answer when your intel may differ, but POTUS has already decided and is not taking applications any longer. But, we don't rightly know what that intel was. We know now how the intel differed from what Bush said and did. Appears to be a carbon copy of that scenario IF the DNI has intel that says we should not be bombing. When we have had intel, and I'd be hard pressed to believe there was zero intel on 9/11, we did nothing with it. Except hit the road for a 20 year war instead of a 10 year Viet Nam. I didn't take issue one way or the other. Just stated an observation. You just don't walk up to the podium and say, we showed him all this contrary intel and he did it anyway. Don't asked baited questions.


Edit: Think of it as your management job at work with the big boss. He may say he wants to do something and it's a good call. You show him some stuff that may differ. He says no we gonna do this. What happens to you if you go out and say "they" instead of "we." I got those lectures as a manager long before I had hte opportunity to ignorantly screw it up. You didn't buck the brass. You could say the right things to survive without breaking rank if you felt differently, or you could find another job. But, you never publically bucked the brass to your subordinates or common folk.

She was asked in her capacity as DNI whether there was an imminent threat from Iran, and her response was to say "Donald Trump says there was, so there was". That's not the answer of a serious or competent DNI, and if "saving her job" is paramount to telling Congress the truth as our intelligence apparatus has determined, then she should be impeached.

I'm not sure what kind of company you work for, but neither my boss nor his boss, would expect me to support their actions or statements in their positions as VP or CEO, if the facts of my own work, or my department's work didn't corroborate them.

 

[MAD]

It should be that way when picking a dem to vote for too?? Except you'd have to sawp conservative ideology for more liberal ideology and Democrat for Republican. But, the rest is quite interchangeable is it not?

I think there's alot of us righties that would vote for Fetterman rather easliy in the absence of a decent republican to vote for.

I’d rather it be someone from the Republican Party, but if it ends up being one of these nut jobs in the primaries, would definitely consider Fetterman as a viable alternative.

 

[GVF]

If we had done any prep work for this operation, smuggling in weapons through Iraq, making contact with people sympathetic to revolution and establishing some kind of internal communications wit resistance elements, then maybe there's the option to turn a surgical air campaign into the precursor for a revolution, but we didn't do any serious planning for anything beyond supporting Israel with our own air power.

Evidenced by Trump being shocked that Iran would lash out and strike Gulf states allied with the US and close the Strait of Hormuz.

On all this I 100% agree. Gotta have plans for ops of this magnitude. Well for any op period. As far as the other post on Gabbard, I'd much rather be her or Rubio right now than Hegseth. Talk about a crap job. I really liked him when he was on Fox. I get he may or may not have been the right guy but he was certainly worth a shot. But, he currently has the worst day job imagineable. I can't fathom he believes in even half of what he is obligated to torch bear.

Now, can we get back to our regular programming? Conversing with you like this is kinda weird.

 

[lawgator1]

80% of Iranians support regime change. We should be able to accomplish something with numbers like that. Hell, we had far more than 20% supporting King George when we fought the Revolutionary War

What do they support, exactly? And where do you get 80 percent?

 

[MercyPercy]

Agreed. But there doesn't seem to be much to suggest the masses have the ability or desire to toss the current lot out

I think many do have the desire but not the ability. The regime has the guns. The people now also have to worry about whether they are going to be collateral damage from a US or Israeli strike.

 

[rekinhavoc]

Ukraine inserts drone specialists into Middle East as Iran attacks drive demand​

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky addressed Parliament in the U.K. on Tuesday. (Credit: President of Ukraine Official Site)

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Kyiv has deployed military experts to the Middle East to help U.S. allies defend against Iranian drones, offering Ukraine’s war-tested capabilities as part of expanding defense cooperation.
While addressing U.K.’s Parliament, Zelenskyy said the deployments include more than 200 Ukrainian personnel already in the region, with additional teams preparing to deploy.
“Right now, there are 201 Ukrainians in the Middle East and the Gulf region, and another 34 are ready to deploy,” he said. “These are military experts who know how to defend against ‘shahed’ drones. Our teams are already in the Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and on the way to Kuwait. We are working with several other countries — agreements are already in place. We do not want this terror of the Iranian regime against its neighbors to succeed.”
“I sent these military experts at the request of our partners, including the United States,” Zelenskyy continued. “This is part of the Drone Deal we proposed to the United States, which we worked on together and which is still on the table. We are ready to offer similar deals to all our reliable partners — from practical cooperation on drones to future defense alliances.”
In his remarks, Zelenskyy said Gulf nations are well defended against ballistic missile threats with systems like Patriot and THAAD, but warned that adversaries such as Iran continue to seek cheaper ways, including drones, to bypass those defenses.

 

[Orangeburst]

They probably have the desire, it's the ability they lack. I posted earlier that it will take a chunk of their regular Army to get the overthrow started.

We have the ultimate Trump card though, destroy Kharg Island and those soldiers wont get paid..may take time, but dam will break.

SA alone can pick up excess oil capacity of 3 mbpd to offset Iranian daily production.

Big issue though, what does it lead to and destroying production dims future democratic success.

Now mining their ports might work.

 

[GVF]

She was asked in her capacity as DNI whether there was an imminent threat from Iran, and her response was to say "Donald Trump says there was, so there was". That's not the answer of a serious or competent DNI, and if "saving her job" is paramount to telling Congress the truth as our intelligence apparatus has determined, then she should be impeached.

I'm not sure what kind of company you work for, but neither my boss nor his boss, would expect me to support their actions or statements in their positions as VP or CEO, if the facts of my own work, or my department's work didn't corroborate them.

I disagree. Very competent answer. It's not her fault if the audience did not know what that non-answer actually meant. She couldn't have said it any better without saying it.

As for the company stuff you wrapped up with, mostly just thinking of my time with current company. Owner has never let any of us that know what we're doing actually do. He always knows more than us and has run it in the ground. Takes no advice whatsoever and does not ask for it, but pre-blames people in case something doesn't go right. I had 27 years succesful mfg mgt experience and 2 green belts and got pigeon holed and lied to about the role I'd inherit. We are propped up by the bank, when we should be 100% fluid. they have required him to hire someone to be under him and run things but every person he has hired he didn't allow them to do the job and he did hire a couple of very capable individuals. Me being the 3rd one who was the 1st one. The other two had the youth and popped right back out. Was never like that most places I worked. We were expected to do what we were hired to do. But, with this company I was already past that age threshold and any atempt to get out was unfruitful.

 

[GVF]

I’d rather it be someone from the Republican Party, but if it ends up being one of these nut jobs in the primaries, would definitely consider Fetterman as a viable alternative.

Fetterman would be a nice alternative if one must cross over, but they won't float him for obvious reasons. Too logical for them. But, no more an unknown for international relations than anyone else.

 

[MAD]

The loyalty to the party thing that MAGA pushes is insane. I get why politicians want loyalty, but we as voters should not care (much) about party loyalty. When evaluating a politician on the RINO scale, the priorities for Republican voters should be (in no specific order):

- how he/she actually votes
- conservative ideology?
- loyalty to ideology vs. flexibility
- loyalty to America
- loyalty to constituents
- loyalty to the constitution
- etc.

And way down the list should be:

- loyalty to the Republican party

Sincerely, WGAF about that?

And just another funny thought. You could say Ron Paul was a RINO. It's not necessarily a pejorative. He agreed a lot with conservatism, but he was a classical liberal/libertarian who used the Republican label to win elections. He turned on conservatives all the time when it came to foreign policy, the fed, etc.

Sour grapes

Last week

Gloating Huff: “Look, Trump is losing MAGA ”

Yesterday CNN reports MAGA supports Trump 100% and has grown since 2024

Also Huff: “Mindless MAGA is stupid for being loyal to a party ”

 

[CobbVol]

We have the ultimate Trump card though, destroy Kharg Island and those soldiers wont get paid..may take time, but dam will break.

SA alone can pick up excess oil capacity of 3 mbpd to offset Iranian daily production.

Big issue though, what does it lead to and destroying production dims future democratic success.

Now mining their ports might work.

I have already seen reports of food shortages for soldiers, morale issues, and posts being abandoned in sections of Iran.

 

[GVF]

I’d rather it be someone from the Republican Party, but if it ends up being one of these nut jobs in the primaries, would definitely consider Fetterman as a viable alternative.

Veeps just don’t ever pan out when they try to run. I’d offer that Pence would have been a notch or two above Trump in retrospect. Vance is smoked. Rubio is trying to survive the admin. If he does he will contend rather strongly.

 

[BeardedVol]

I disagree. Very competent answer. It's not her fault if the audience did not know what that non-answer actually meant. She couldn't have said it any better without saying it.

Being nominated by the President to run a department, does not mean that a person's job is to then parrot the nonsense spewed by the president. That's the reason we have Senate confirmation hearings. If she cannot be trusted to give a straightforward answer to congress, and is instead going to fall back on "if the President deems it so", then she is incapable of being trusted to fulfill her oath of office.

As for the company stuff you wrapped up with, mostly just thinking of my time with current company. Owner has never let any of us that know what we're doing actually do. He always knows more than us and has run it in the ground. Takes no advice whatsoever and does not ask for it, but pre-blames people in case something doesn't go right. I had 27 years succesful mfg mgt experience and 2 green belts and got pigeon holed and lied to about the role I'd inherit. We are propped up by the bank, when we should be 100% fluid. they have required him to hire someone to be under him and run things but every person he has hired he didn't allow them to do the job and he did hire a couple of very capable individuals. Me being the 3rd one who was the 1st one. The other two had the youth and popped right back out. Was never like that most places I worked. We were expected to do what we were hired to do. But, with this company I was already past that age threshold and any atempt to get out was unfruitful.

You should find a new job. If you're input as a manage and/or an SME, it not taken into account during the decision-making process, then there's no point of trying to work in as either.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Plus the 4 years of Biden not knowing which ally was even in the room, and whatever damage Obama may or may not have done. It ain't good overall.

I think the proper foreign policy for now would be, if you need something give me a call and we'll talk. no offense, but we got some housekeeping to do.

Bringing Biden and Obama into it is crazy. The manner in which Trump has treated them goes far beyond any issues Obama had with our allies. IOW, that level of whataboutism is dumb AF. Your suggestion on how to handle it after Trump is naive and weak

 

[EasternVol]

80% of Iranians support regime change. We should be able to accomplish something with numbers like that. Hell, we had far more than 20% supporting King George when we fought the Revolutionary War

We? Disliking the regime doesn’t mean liking us and our bff meddling in their internal affairs yet again, killing civilians and blowing up their infrastructure.

 

[MAD]

Veeps just don’t ever pan out when they try to run. I’d offer that Pence would have been a notch or two above Trump in retrospect. Vance is smoked. Rubio is trying to survive the admin. If he does he will contend rather strongly.

I’ve read some democrat party pundits say they don’t want to face Rubio, they’d much rather go up against Vance.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

On all this I 100% agree. Gotta have plans for ops of this magnitude. Well for any op period. As far as the other post on Gabbard, I'd much rather be her or Rubio right now than Hegseth. Talk about a crap job. I really liked him when he was on Fox. I get he may or may not have been the right guy but he was certainly worth a shot. But, he currently has the worst day job imagineable. I can't fathom he believes in even half of what he is obligated to torch bear.

Now, can we get back to our regular programming? Conversing with you like this is kinda weird.

You must have forgotten about some of her early screw ups last year. She isn't remotely qualified for the position

 

[n_huffhines]

Woodrow Wilson campaigned on keeping us out of war. The vast majority was not interested in fighting WWII before December 7th, the Japanese attacked us and Germans became a real threat and we had to deal with it.

You say this like things didn't work out. Staying out of it until the fight came to us looks like a winning strategy in those 2 particular case studies.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

“Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it is clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby.” J. Kent

Pick a lane Joseph.


View attachment 820243

Pretty clear that was a slam at the incredible incompetence of Mayorkas....