Iran

[KB5252]

And you think our intelligence operatives didn't know that when they determined that Iran is not actively pursuing a nuclear weapon? They actually are, because you know better?

It's semantics. You don't enrich to that extent unless you are pursuing weapons grade nuclear material. Once you have the material all you need is the ignition mechanism.......... That could already be in play somewhere not known.

They already have the delivery vehicle. You enrich to that extent to either make nuclear weapons or to use it as leverage. If the preliminary assessments are correct we took away their threat/leverage. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Orangeslice13]

None of that is even true. Gay people can't get married in Israel and "thrown off of buildings" gets said a lot with zero examples. All of that is completely irrelevant to the morality of slaughtering civilians

Yes they can.
In Israel marriage is a religious institution so they recognize any religion that will preform the marriage. There are now two churches that will do it in Israel and there is an online church linked on Israeli government website that they also accept as legal. Any gay couple who is married and moves to Israel has all rights and privileges associated with the marriage.
Hamas found one of their own commanders guilty of being guy and executed him by throwing him off a building.

You want to condemn the people causing the needless death of civilians in Gaza then call out Hamas. Because that’s who’s responsible for killing them.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Sorry. This isn’t the Zgaza thread. It’s the Iran thread and Iran only executed 229 people for being Gay last year.

Rights group: Iran executes 2 gay men over sodomy charges

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Iran has executed two gay men who were convicted on charges of sodomy and spent six years on death row, a rights group reported.

apnews.com

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Just wow. Their government not evil? What planet are you from?

Did your shipment of Iranian flags arrive yet? I'm sure there will be plenty of American ones to burn at the next love fest.

Well I don't think any people or governments are evil. I think all humans are the same. We can all be pushed to good or evil. The Iranian regime is a response to our actions. As I stated many times already before we installed the Shah Iran was a secular democracy where women wore miniskirts. We created the current fundamentalist regime through our meddling.

So if you think the current Iranian government is evil then it's because of our actions not because the Iranian people have this inherent desire to support Islamic fundamentalism or hate America. They hate us because of what we've done to them. And that isn't owning Iranian flags but simply knowing history.

 

[volfanhill]

Are people actually arguing that a government isn't evil even though it will jail women for not wearing head covers and allows life imprisonment for gay sex acts. And most of these posters come off as liberal? What the hell is the matter with yall?

 

[volfanhill]

Well I don't think any people or governments are evil. I think all humans are the same. We can all be pushed to good or evil. The Iranian regime is a response to our actions. As I stated many times already before we installed the Shah Iran was a secular democracy where women wore miniskirts. We created the current fundamentalist regime through our meddling.

So if you think the current Iranian government is evil then it's because of our actions not because the Iranian people have this inherent desire to support Islamic fundamentalism or hate America. They hate us because of what we've done to them. And that isn't owning Iranian flags but simply knowing history.

Our actions make them punish gay people with life in prison? We make them require women to cover themselve or face jail? They are evil.

Let's talk ability to publicly defiy government policy. JFC you are as lost here as when you pretended to know Duke's campus

 

[bamawriter]

Are people actually arguing that a government isn't evil even though it will jail women for not wearing head covers and allows life imprisonment for gay sex acts. And most of these posters come off as liberal? What the hell is the matter with yall?

There is a crazy thread of anti-American moral relativism that runs thru a horseshoe coalition of far leftists, MAGA populists, and some corners of libertarians.

 

[MemphisVol77]

Are people actually arguing that a government isn't evil even though it will jail women for not wearing head covers and allows life imprisonment for gay sex acts. And most of these posters come off as liberal? What the hell is the matter with yall?

Yes. They're even justifying killing gays if it's an Islamic state doing it.
1 million Volnation bucks to whoever guesses who liked it.

but my point there was just because a country has the death penalty for homosexuality doesn't mean it's evil. It just means they're highly conservative and follow the laws of their religion (which tends to be the same in the Abrahamic religions).

Which non muslim states allow for killing gays?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

We are so stupid

You guys keep falling for the same playbook. Remember Bush declared victory on a carrier only for us to be in Iraq for another decade.

If you thought we would be done after one bombing campaign you would be a fool. They're setting us up for another forever war. Their goal is regime change and they won't stop this war until the current regime is toppled and a puppet regime like that of the Shah is installed.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Well I don't think any people or governments are evil. I think all humans are the same. We can all be pushed to good or evil. The Iranian regime is a response to our actions. As I stated many times already before we installed the Shah Iran was a secular democracy where women wore miniskirts. We created the current fundamentalist regime through our meddling.

So if you think the current Iranian government is evil then it's because of our actions not because the Iranian people have this inherent desire to support Islamic fundamentalism or hate America. They hate us because of what we've done to them. And that isn't owning Iranian flags but simply knowing history.

What exactly have we 'done to them'? They have less ****s to give about that than the average Gen Z does about the Vietnam war.

 

[volfanhill]

Don't know what the point of this casual racism is but my point there was just because a country has the death penalty for homosexuality doesn't mean it's evil. It just means they're highly conservative and follow the laws of their religion (which tends to be the same in the Abrahamic religions).

It's also pretty funny to me that right wing Americans are the ones feigning outrage at the treatment of gays by fundamentalist Muslims. As if they've ever been great defenders of gay rights here in America.

Do they have a history of advocating for their deaths in the last 40 years? And I don't mean crazies. Human rights are human rights. You accepting their laws as ok makes you as bad as them. Gross

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

SIAP .....

LOL. Say hi to another forever war.

Look for troops on the ground soon and Trump getting us into a decade long occupation of another Middle Eastern country on behalf of our bosses in Israel.

 

[NashVol11]

Yes they can.
In Israel marriage is a religious institution so they recognize any religion that will preform the marriage. There are now two churches that will do it in Israel

Wow anecdotally two churches that aren't listed or verified anywhere, I guess that means they can kill whoever they want and still be the good guys. Someone should have told that to other murderous regimes

 

[BeardedVol]

A clear violation of the Non nuclear Proliferation Treaty

BTW, what ever happened with the 900 lbs of 83.6% enriched uranium?

Lol, it's cute that you still think Russia observes international treaties.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Lmfao “you made us choose Islamic fundamentalism” is one of my favorite claims. The idea that their leader was democratically elected previously is also a joke. The Shah chose him.

I'm talking about this guy: Mohammad Mosaddegh - Wikipedia

He was democratically elected by the Iranian parliament. He wasn't chosen by the Shah. And people naturally turn to religion in hard times. There's a reason the most religious countries tend to be in Africa where poverty and violence is prevalent. While the least religious countries are the rich and safe Scandinavian countries.

Whether you like it or not before we installed a dictator Iran had a secular government and women wore miniskirts in Tehran. We pushed the Iranian people into a corner and they went to the only thing they could. Religion.

 

[volfanhill]

I'm talking about this guy: Mohammad Mosaddegh - Wikipedia

He was democratically elected by the Iranian parliament. He wasn't chosen by the Shah. And people naturally turn to religion in hard times. There's a reason the most religious countries tend to be in Africa where poverty and violence is prevalent. While the least religious countries are the rich and safe Scandinavian countries.

Whether you like it or not before we installed a dictator Iran had a secular government and women wore miniskirts in Tehran. We pushed the Iranian people into a corner and they went to the only thing they could. Religion.

You give them a pass for their human rights abuses. And you are a massive liar who refuses to admit they are. You will not be taken seriously until you admit your lies about Duke. Frankly, you are the worst poster here from a credibility standpoint. Why would anyone care about your thoughts? Be a man. Admit your bullshat

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You don't know what the heck you're talking about. These are religious Fanatics who control iran. You can try to change and appease them but they believe that America must fall under Islam Rule and law if not, we should be beheaded. That's the Iranian leadership's beliefs

So why isn't Russia and China joining us against Iran? Neither Russia nor China are Muslim. If they want to establish Islam in America, surely they would do the same in Russia and China. So why aren't Russia and China joining us?

It's sad you have fallen for this silly propaganda. The people of Iran were non-religious just fifty years ago. They only backed a religious government in response to our meddling. If we weren't going around messing with everyone in the Middle East for Israel's benefit the people of Iran would be addicted to smart phones and junk food like us. The idea they are on some religious Armageddon quest if nothing more than fear mongering propaganda by those who want us to hate each other and fuel their never-ending wars.

 

[KB5252]

Are you this naive or playing dumb? We just dropped bombs? So if another nation dropped bombs in America would you brush it off as no big deal? Smh. You sound like the liberals who said it's just a mask why are complaining about wearing it.

If you can't see Israel and the US government is setting up for a push to change regimes in Iran. Why do you think they're already walking back the talking points from yesterday. They're setting us up for another perpetual war in the middle east and conservatives are falling for it once again because they hate Muslims.

I've said repeatedly I was troubled by hitting their nuclear facilities but we were the only ones that could do it. If that's what we did I was reluctantly ok with it.

I'm also not blinded to the idea that Iran will likely respond. But I expect that response to be something along the lines of what we've seen in the past.

I'm no more naive than you are hysterical, neither you nor I know what comes next. Obama struck in Syria and Libya and I don't remember you getting all foghorn leghorn about being at war then, maybe you did and I missed it.

All we know is what's happened to this point, cheering on the worst case scenario for I told you so's is ridiculous. Let's see how it plays out without getting all worked up.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

When did we ever use a nuclear bomb unprovoked?

D4H went silent after that.

Not really. I responded to it multiple times already. You can't justify using nuclear weapons because the other side used conventional weapons or that a conventional war would be too costly in terms of lives. Imagine if Russia dropped nukes on Ukraine saying they had to do it because a ground war would be too costly in terms of lives. Would they be justified?

The only justification for ever using nuclear weapons is in response to someone else using nukes. Since nobody used nukes against us, we were unprovoked in dropping two nukes on Japan.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

It saved lives. We warned them what was about to happen. It happened. We should have zero guilt over those weapons being dropped

So if Russia warns Ukraine and drops nukes on Kiev it's justified cause it saves lives? You guys don't see how ridiculous what you're saying sounds if anybody else were to do it?

Just because we're Americans doesn't mean we have to justify our government's actions.

 

[volfanhill]

So if Russia warns Ukraine and drops nukes on Kiev it's justified cause it saves lives? You guys don't see how ridiculous what you're saying sounds if anybody else were to do it?

Just because we're Americans doesn't mean we have to justify our government's actions.

Yes. Are you slow? We saved both Japanese and American life's. And you are known liar. So here we are

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Russia potentially nuking Ukraine is a horrible comparison.

Why? They're at war just like us and Japan. Why would using nukes against non-nuclear Japan be justified but Russia using nukes against non-nuclear Ukraine is apparently not justified?

Its either wrong to use nukes when your opponent doesn't have them or it's fine. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, however Russia was the initial aggressor in their conflict with Ukraine. They'd be nuking territory they wanted to occupy indefinitely (not smart, even by Russian standards). In the case of WWII, Japan was the initial aggressor, and the US sought to end the campaign to pacify them and end the war. Would a protracted conventional campaign on the Japanese islands have somehow been more "humane", by your calculus?

So in a hypothetical universe where Ukraine attacked Russia first, Russia would justified in using a nuclear bomb against Ukraine? You know good and well nobody would think Russia would be justified in using nukes against Ukraine regardless of who attacked first. You just zeroed in on that because it was the only difference you could find.

 

[appvol]

Probably been mentioned but how is this different than what Obama did as President when he dropped bombs on other countries. Is this tweet not accurate

 

[KB5252]

So if Russia warns Ukraine and drops nukes on Kiev it's justified cause it saves lives? You guys don't see how ridiculous what you're saying sounds if anybody else were to do it?

Just because we're Americans doesn't mean we have to justify our government's actions.

Or we could just sit back and watch as those who've called for the death of America to get a nuclear weapon and use it or threaten it's use.

I agree there is a time for everything, we just disagree on where we are on the clock.

If Taiwan announced it was close to developing a nuclear weapon as deterrence to China do you believe for a single second they would allow Taiwan to achieve it? No way. Every nation looks it for it's interests and the interests of it's allies. Since the beginning of time it's been when these interests clash is where conflict begins.