Improvement under CBJ

[knoxvol16]

By 2016 the rebuild will be 95% done. The only thing left will be waiting to have a stockpile of lesser talented players who can develop and become RS SR backups and contributors in certain places (OL, TE, LS, etc).

Butch is recruiting at a level where we won't have many 5th year seniors. We will be like LSU and Bama and have multiple juniors declaring for the draft every year, starting this year with Cam and significantly more next year.

Guys like KMack and Tuttle will be better as sophomores than the vast majority of redshirt senior defensive tackles, because they will be NFL bound after just 3 years on campus.

I don't disagree. But, statistics show you get the most consistent production and greatest gain in improvement from recruits in their second year with a program. That's why I'm saying five years. By then, with Butch's recruiting ability, the cupboard will be fully stocked. If some of the same issues are plaguing the program in year five, the cause is easily determined.

 

[jwptc]

This is about as uninformed a post as I've seen. First, every situation is different. Butch taking over here is the equivalent of a coach taking over the Detroit Lions. Thanks to Dooley there was not only a deficiency of SEC speed and talent there was the larger issue of reversing a culture of losing. That is not easy to change in a hurry. Secondly there are hosts of coaches that don't win by year three that go on to be championship coaches. The prime example being a coach who is arguably the greatest in all sports in Coach K at Duke.

It never ceases to amaze me how people say things on these pages as if they are Gospel truth but reality is just not so.

This all day!

Additionally, this team never quits on Butch. They quit on Dooley regularly!

 

[EZE]

Another thing that Jones has pointed out that I think gets lost on the win now crowd; he has completely flipped the roster.

Only 12 players on this roster that traveled the last time the Vols went to the swamp.

Youth is still an issue no matter if you want to hear that or not.

Is he contributing to the youth problem by running players off?

Look, I know Dooley left little to work with, but it is a legitimate question.

 

[peppervol]

But somehow great coaches fully establish themselves as Championship caliber within 2-3 years even given all that. How is it ignorant to expect the same at the University of Tennessee?

The timetable is directly tied to how bare the cupboard is when the new coach arrives. I think a lot of us just did not realize how bare the Vols cupboard was of better S.E.C caliber players. To restock takes relentless effort and TIME....

 

[peppervol]

If a coach doesn't win by year 3, he's not a winner. Period. He may luck up and have a good season or two, but he won't return us to 1985-2004 form, by any stretch of the imagination

With all due repect, I,totally, disagree....

 

[millst987]

In order for this to be true we have to win at UF by three

 

[Dragon18]

Is he contributing to the youth problem by running players off?

Look, I know Dooley left little to work with, but it is a legitimate question.

Yes. He is running players off. He is running them off in large because the standard he is setting for these players is very high in all aspects of their lives but practices and trsining sessions are incredibly intense. That is not for everyone. Plus he has recruited over players regularly and those plsyers are leaving for playing time at other programs. These are good things long term but cause some depth issues short term.

 

[livefaith]

If a coach doesn't win by year 3, he's not a winner. Period. He may luck up and have a good season or two, but he won't return us to 1985-2004 form, by any stretch of the imagination

History will not be kind to you. :detective:

 

[AdmiralVFL98]

But does he lose by fewer points than Dooley did?

Are you trying to say the team was better with Dooley? Wow.

 

[Whitewolf]

Is he contributing to the youth problem by running players off?

Look, I know Dooley left little to work with, but it is a legitimate question.

I don't think he's running players off per say. Not to talk or say bad things about the kids that endured this house fire Dooley era, but you have limited scholarships and you can't replace less talent without time or asking them the move on where they are more likely to succeed.

JMHO

 

[VolFootballIsLife]

But somehow great coaches fully establish themselves as Championship caliber within 2-3 years even given all that. How is it ignorant to expect the same at the University of Tennessee?

Name them. Im not saying there aren't any butvshow me the list of coaches that inherited the absolute disaster that was UT football and created championship teams in 2-3 years. I assume your list will be small.

And using your logic we should expect each coach to rise to that pinnacle of select few in 2-3 years or let em go? This program will be a freakin coaching carousel and in infinite rebuild status if some of our fans had it their way.

Good things come to those who wait and CBJ is building something good.

 

[TNDeb3]

Can't wait to see what VolNation finds to bi*ch about after we beat dem gators Saturday.

GBO!
:rock:

 

[Orange_Crush]

Name them. Im not saying there aren't any butvshow me the list of coaches that inherited the absolute disaster that was UT football and created championship teams in 2-3 years. I assume your list will be small.

And using your logic we should expect each coach to rise to that pinnacle of select few in 2-3 years or let em go? This program will be a freakin coaching carousel and in infinite rebuild status if some of our fans had it their way.

Good things come to those who wait and CBJ is building something good.

Shhhhhh......

1995 Michigan State 12 6 5 1 .542 7.68 9.27 Independence Bowl-L
1996 Michigan State 12 6 6 0 .500 8.66 5.16 Sun Bowl-L
1997 Michigan State 12 7 5 0 .583 9.47 4.05 25 11 Aloha Bowl-L
1998 Michigan State 12 6 6 0 .500 8.13 5.80 23 23
1999 Michigan State 11 9 2 0 .818 14.95 7.03 5 7

Who was the head coach at Michigan St '95-'99? Obviously he was not championship caliber since it took him 5 years to start winning.

WKV is making stuff up to create a narrative.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Shhhhhh......





Who was the head coach at Michigan St '95-'99? Obviously he was not championship caliber since it took him 5 years to start winning.

WKV is making stuff up to create a narrative.

So what you are saying is that little Nicky Saban sux? :dance:

 

[Orange_Crush]

So what you are saying is that little Nicky Saban sux? :dance:

Apparently that was what WKVol was saying. At least, that Saban could never be a championship coach. We should inform Nick so he can retire and save everyone the trouble.

 

[crparker21]

If a coach doesn't win by year 3, he's not a winner. Period. He may luck up and have a good season or two, but he won't return us to 1985-2004 form, by any stretch of the imagination

Saban had 1 good year at mich st. Year 5! I'd say he turned out ok.

Also see Bill Snyder, he turned out decent.



See above, somebody beat me to it.

 

[suplexcityVOL]

I'm out of patience! we as a fan base have been told for years to have patience..... its always wait until next year.... Its time to start winning again. its time to beat the freaking gators!!!!!!

 

[DCompagnucci]

I read about people getting frustrated with Coach Jones about the lack of results and I understand that. I'm ready to win in the SEC again also, but I think he deserves more patience form us.

Our year to year improvement under CBJ has been consistent and substantial. I know it's yet to show up in wins but I feel we should see that improve this year also. Hopefully starting this week.

Our point differential improved (or stayed the same in the case of Georgia) against every one of our yearly opponents between Butch's first season and second season.

Florida
2013 lost by 14
2014 lost by 1

Georgia
2013 lost by 3
2014 lost by 3

Alabama
2013 lost by 35
2014 lost by 14

South Carolina
2013 Won by 2
2014 Won by 3

Missouri
2013 lost by 28
2014 lost by 8

Vanderbilt
2013 lost by 4
2014 Won by 7

Kentucky
2013 Won by 13
2014 Won by 34

Oklahoma
2014 lost by 24
2015 lost by 7 in overtime

Our average improvement year one to year two is 13 points per game.

I counted 11 losses and 5 wins. The rest is irrelevant.

 

[PayingUTKTuition]

If a coach doesn't win by year 3, he's not a winner. Period. He may luck up and have a good season or two, but he won't return us to 1985-2004 form, by any stretch of the imagination

The only problem is, it took Johnny Majors nine years to reach form in 1985. Believe me, I suffered through it. What ultimately turned it around, however, was being able to recruit a higher level of athlete. It was harder in those days because the elite teams would put hundreds of players on scholarship, and there just were not as many to go around. So, yes, it could not happen as fast. But, is Johnny Majors considered a loser based on the three year plan?

Butch has the recruiting portion down. I don't know if he is the man or not. We have not seen enough yet. But, I can tell you that he is further along now with the roster than Majors was in 1979 (his third year).

 

[SGMVols]

Before the Moral Victory crowd jumps in let me just say that I agree with your assertion. Improvement is very noticeable, imo. And I haven't seen 13 players on the field once either since he's been here.

"He's better than Dooley" is not a reason for a lifetime contract.

 

[wmcovol]

Yes. He is running players off. He is running them off in large because the standard he is setting for these players is very high in all aspects of their lives but practices and trsining sessions are incredibly intense. That is not for everyone. Plus he has recruited over players regularly and those plsyers are leaving for playing time at other programs. These are good things long term but cause some depth issues short term.

Butch spoke in Nashville this past winter and he said "when we got to Tennessee, many of our players felt they had accomplished all of their goals just getting to Tennessee, we had to change that."

The expectations at Tennessee doesn't allow for a roster of kids who only want to go to school and play alittle football on the side. That program and similar programs are about winning and competing for championships. Otherwise, these guys need to sign with a Duke or Wake Forest....JMO

 

[08Vol]

The only problem is, it took Johnny Majors nine years to reach form in 1985. Believe me, I suffered through it. What ultimately turned it around, however, was being able to recruit a higher level of athlete. It was harder in those days because the elite teams would put hundreds of players on scholarship, and there just were not as many to go around. So, yes, it could not happen as fast. But, is Johnny Majors considered a loser based on the three year plan?

Butch has the recruiting portion down. I don't know if he is the man or not. We have not seen enough yet. But, I can tell you that he is further along now with the roster than Majors was in 1979 (his third year).

If Butch wants to take 9 years to fix this that's fine, but don't expect to keep that 3 million dollar a year salary.

 

[Dragon18]

I counted 11 losses and 5 wins. The rest is irrelevant.

Your mindset is really difficult for me to follow. Maybe it's the nature of what I do for a living but it's my job to take failing companies and turn them into successful companies. What I know to be true is:
1- winning is the objective always. If you're not playing to win you need to get out.
2- process is critical to success in all things. You can't just choose to be successful and it happens.
3- measurable success is paramount and winning rarely lies in the final score. Winning lies in the metrics that feed into the final score.
4- successful companies and people look at trending factors to help make directional changes.
5- Finally companies and teams rarely make super fast turnarounds when there are serious cultural and institutional issues.

Your win now or you're failing attitude is really short sighted when you consider the remarkable cultural, institutional abd trending factors of the UT program. I can tell you that in my estimation the program is in very good hands right now. We are all disappointed in the Fl game last year and OU this year. Those games are not indicative of the overall state of the program.

 

[peppervol]

Butch spoke in Nashville this past winter and he said "when we got to Tennessee, many of our players felt they had accomplished all of their goals just getting to Tennessee, we had to change that."

The expectations at Tennessee doesn't allow for a roster of kids who only want to go to school and play alittle football on the side. That program and similar programs are about winning and competing for championships. Otherwise, these guys need to sign with a Duke or Wake Forest....JMO

Tell that to Coach Cut'. On second thought, don't. We may never see or hear from you again and we don't want that. Just kiddin', my friend...

 

[ReaderVol]

Is he contributing to the youth problem by running players off?

Look, I know Dooley left little to work with, but it is a legitimate question.

Sometimes players get ran off because they need to be. For either conduct or. Lack of talent so players choose to leave.