Improvement under CBJ

[VOLINVONORE]

Oh well, then based on forecasting then the only loss we have left is BAMA for this year!!!..............So, let's see how this plays out as we clearly have more talent than the previous 2 years..........it's all about COACHING now !!!

And a large amount of coaching is establishing a relationship with high school coaches and recruiting, both of which has to happen before the big wins come. one has to agree that substantial progress has been made and there is still positions where depth and experience has to improve for us to win a championship. Anyone who posts on this board has no basis on which to disagree unless they done understand football or are trolls. On a scale of 1 to 10, CBJ started at about a 2 on talent, depth, and experience and has progress to about 7. Now he has to fill in the holes to reach the 9-10 level which he will do. Lets appreciate what has been accomplished and look forward to the progression. Beat Florida.

 

[jenkins76]

Wrong. It points out that in BIG games, WE STILL LOSE. The UF game last year we had NO business losing. NONE. We coached and consequently played, scared. OU had NO BUSINESS beating us this year. NONE. Butch's behind locked up in the 2nd half....Janzek's, too...as evidenced by the fact that our defensive starters get left in the game WWWWAAAAAYYYYYYY too long, in the 2nd half. THAT is coaching scared. You HAVE to rotate your defensive players...especially in the 2nd half, when they are most prone to wear down.

Barnett practically never came off the field in the 2nd half at OU. Nor did JRM or any of the DB's. They got conservative in the play calling on offense, too.

Yeah, not rotating the front 7 is a real problem. You especially can't do that if you are running a hurryup and not making any real effort to get first downs on offense.

 

[NashVol11]

If that's truly the case and it's something that I could accept and many others could as well. Why not tinker with this offense and all it's talent ? We have/had 4 QB's on the roster all with decent running ability and that's why we had a winning season last year, Dobb's ability to elude pressure. He was running to his right and hit Malone perfect in the end zone in 1st qtr of OU game yet in WC game while running left he threw the ball 3' over North's head who was wide open in back of end zone. If we have even an average OL I can name 6-7 SEC defenses that are going to collapse our pocket. I think it's fun and exciting to play this type of ball. It's the very reason the west coast, spread type offenses came into existence. Since then all the exciting teams seem to have mobile, quick QB's with arms. Don't get me wrong,i'd love to see our QB stand in the pocket comfortably and have time to do his check downs but this year the word is out early, "press Dobbs", it's coming every game. Our coaches, I'm sure, know this so IMO we should experiment with getting our passers moving. Another upside is it really wears on defensive linemen fast and it actually gives our OL a little less pressure. just an opinion. GBO

The problem with relying on rollouts is that it cuts the field in half. Dobbs isn't going to throw back to the other side of the field unless he's an idiot, so DBs can focus on that side and there are more defenders in less space.

It's a good wrinkle, but having it as the entire basis of your offense can be problematic.

 

[jenkins76]

And a large amount of coaching is establishing a relationship with high school coaches and recruiting, both of which has to happen before the big wins come. one has to agree that substantial progress has been made and there is still positions where depth and experience has to improve for us to win a championship. Anyone who posts on this board has no basis on which to disagree unless they done understand football or are trolls. On a scale of 1 to 10, CBJ started at about a 2 on talent, depth, and experience and has progress to about 7. Now he has to fill in the holes to reach the 9-10 level which he will do. Lets appreciate what has been accomplished and look forward to the progression. Beat Florida.

A much larger amount of coaching is performed on the field. He has been undeniably subpar there. Seriously, undeniably.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Yeah, not rotating the front 7 is a real problem. You especially can't do that if you are running a hurryup and not making any real effort to get first downs on offense.

I see that some of our newer posters, probably not yet mature, do not understand the game of football and are likely trolls.

 

[jenkins76]

I see that some of our newer posters, probably not yet mature, do not understand the game of football and are likely trolls.

Yeah, the game of football that evidently is all about buddying up to high school coaches and has nothing to do with on the field production. You've got it figured out, pops.

 

[jenkins76]

I see that some of our newer posters, probably not yet mature, do not understand the game of football and are likely trolls.

This could be a quote from a Butch Jones postgame press conference.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

This could be a quote from a Butch Jones postgame press conference.

When the shoe fits, go barefooted or wear the shoes.

 

[jenkins76]

When the shoe fits, go barefooted or wear the shoes.

So, just to summarize, you definitely have nothing of substance to offer and are going to just randomly throw out some insults about someone's age, without any sort of visual confirmation? Strong stance.

 

[jakez4ut]

Has the program improved under Butch Jones? In a word, yes.

All we need now are some results to keep it going.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

The problem with relying on rollouts is that it cuts the field in half. Dobbs isn't going to throw back to the other side of the field unless he's an idiot, so DBs can focus on that side and there are more defenders in less space.

It's a good wrinkle, but having it as the entire basis of your offense can be problematic.

If the OT and/or TE can execute a good seal block on the side Dobbs rolls out to, it makes life really hard on the secondary, because they don't know whether to stay on their man or come up and tackle the QB if he pulls it down and runs with it.

If there is no seal block, then there is too much pursuit for the QB to wade through. Rollouts are most effective when you have a defense that is really keying on stopping the RB. You get 2/3's of the defense crashing down on him, while your QB is rolling to the opposite side of the field

 

[KBVol]

To those who are not seeing any success with Butch...what needs to be done then? Fire him and go looking again for another coach? What guarantees do we have that they will hire someone better? Is there anything in the past that would make you think they would? Kiffin, Dooley, and when Butch was hired everyone moaned. The board cried "Who is Butch Jones?" I will admit, if we don't do much better this year I will be starting to think a change is needed but I am still willing to give him another year after this one. We haven't even played our first SEC game this year and we are already hearing this? Why? Because we lost to Oklahoma who most people were already writing off as a loss before the season started anyway? I've watched cfb analysts give us a L for Oklahoma and still had us winning 10 games this year. Hook up the oxygen and breathe a little.

Who on here has said they haven't seen any success with Butch? Even his most ardent critics constantly write that they see success/demonstrable improvement everywhere in the program off the field and saw improvement (though not as much as is should have been with the bad Florida loss) in year 2 as compared to year 1.

However, at the end of the day, it's about wins, important wins, "signature" wins....and completely screwing up one of those games that should've been a win, again, vs OU this time, is gonna draw criticism.

In year 3, it's not enough just to lose by less to teams you lost to by more the previous year when you should've won the game outright. Butch also does himself no favors with the constant excuse-making and moral victory statements. He needs to man up and go win some games of importance, beginning today. That's the only thing that'll shut up the doubters and critics at this point.

 

[jenkins76]

Has the program improved under Butch Jones? In a word, yes.

All we need now are some results to keep it going.

I mean, we literally had a guy in here before that asked to be let go rather than coach his third year. How could he not improve?

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Has the RECRUITING improved under Butch Jones? In a word, yes.

Without on-the-field results (WINS....not moral victories in close losses) we will be unable to keep it going.

FYP.

Winning the OU game was critical to showing recruits and players alike, that ON THE FIELD PROGRESS was indeed occurring. Butch blew a great opportunity to sell those crucial 5* targets, we need to get back to the top of the SEC.

He still has an opportunity to redeem himself, starting today. But a loss, here, sets him and the program WAY back. He needs to SHOW that given the talent, he can produce (and beat teams we should be beating).

Recruits in this class and beyond, know that the Vols have pulled in a ton of talent in the past 2 classes, and NOW is the time to see some fruit come from that. With us losing games we shouldn't be, it undercuts his message to recruits.

Before it was "Come be part of something special...a new era of UT Football." Now, the reality is "Come be part of Derek Dooley 2.0's team, that underachieves and blows big leads."

 

[jakez4ut]

I've said plenty this week that we need a result. There is really no debating that. It's time.

That said, there's no way you can rationally look at this program today vs. where it was the day Kiffin bolted and not see how far the program has come. This place was a dumpster fire then, and it was in no better shape after Dooley got canned.

The lifelong fan that I am is tired of the blown leads, moral victories, and losing streaks. That fan is sick and really tired of "wait til next year".

But my rational mind sees what's going on, knows where we are vs. where we've been. And it IS a better place today than 3 years ago. Just some folks that really ramped up the expectation this off season, were probably a year early. I said 8 wins, 9 if we got some breaks, is the ceiling.

So that's my "yes"... In more than a word.

GO VOLS. BEAT FLORIDA.

 

[Mick]

If the OT and/or TE can execute a good seal block on the side Dobbs rolls out to, it makes life really hard on the secondary, because they don't know whether to stay on their man or come up and tackle the QB if he pulls it down and runs with it.

If there is no seal block, then there is too much pursuit for the QB to wade through. Rollouts are most effective when you have a defense that is really keying on stopping the RB. You get 2/3's of the defense crashing down on him, while your QB is rolling to the opposite side of the field

Last year the front 5 couldn't block 4. They have improved because they are now consistently trying to block 6. So right on the roll out. The run blitz destroys the pocket so if that is the way teams are going to play us, burn them with it a few times.

The real question is has CBJ improved as a coach? Is he 1% better?

 

[VOLorNuttin]

Who on here has said they haven't seen any success with Butch? Even his the most ardent critics constantly write that they see success/demonstrable improvement everywhere in the program off the field and saw improvement (though not as much as is should have been with the bad Florida loss) in year 2 as compared to year 1.

However, at the end of the day, it's about wins, important wins, "signature" wins....and completely screwing up one of those games that should've been a win, again, vs OU this time, is gonna draw criticism.

In year 3, it's not enough just to lose by less to teams you lost to by more the previous year when you should've won the game outright. Butch also does himself no favors with the constant excuse-making and moral victory statements. He needs to man up and go win some games of importance, beginning today. That's the only thing that'll shut up the doubters and critics at this point.

+1. I've grown sick and tired of hearing the pitch "we're the youngest team in football...we've played this many freshmen....blah.blah.blah."

There will always be some kind of excuse. Part of the reason he has to play so many freshmen is that he either didn't recruit well enough his first year (most of the OL are 3* recruits, as are our starting DT's), mis-evaluated (Dontavius Blair?) or he has failed to develop them.

He has two Behemoth's...both were either 4* or 5*...Charles Mosley and Khalil McKenzie....who are getting scant if any playing time. Something is wrong with this picture. Mosley should be starting either on the DL or OL...and McKenzie is not only the biggest DT we have by far, but the by far the most talented. SCREW this crap of easing him in slowly! Get him in the freakin game!

I'm convinced that if K-Mac and Tuttle had been rotated in regularly in the 2nd half of the OU game, we come away with a win. One reason their offense was suddenly able to produce late in the game is because Janzek coached scared and wouldn't rotate the defensive players. They got gassed and it showed.

 

[jakez4ut]

+1. I've grown sick and tired of hearing the pitch "we're the youngest team in football...we've played this many freshmen....blah.blah.blah."

There will always be some kind of excuse. Part of the reason he has to play so many freshmen is that he either didn't recruit well enough his first year (most of the OL are 3* recruits, as are our starting DT's), mis-evaluated (Dontavius Blair?) or he has failed to develop them.

He has two Behemoth's...both were either 4* or 5*...Charles Mosley and Khalil McKenzie....who are getting scant if any playing time. Something is wrong with this picture. Mosley should be starting either on the DL or OL...and McKenzie is not only the biggest DT we have by far, but the by far the most talented. SCREW easing him in slowly! Get him in the freakin game!

I'm convinced that if K-Mac and Tuttle had been rotated in regularly in the 2nd half of the OU game, we come away with a win. One reason their offense was suddenly able to produce late in the game is because Janzek coached scared and wouldn't rotate the defensive players. They got gassed and it showed.

So the answer to all our problems rest with the true freshmen linemen getting more playing time? That's it?

 

[jenkins76]

So the answer to all our problems rest with the true freshmen linemen getting more playing time? That's it?

I think the answer rests in getting new offensive coaches. We had the opportunity to do it and instead made a hire so bad Fulmer chuckled.

We had a stud offensive line at one point in the Jones era. They really didn't perform all that well. Now that the talent level has dropped, the production has tanked. We've had junior and senior QBs. We haven't been able to get them to produce. We have highly regarded wide receivers. Big guys, fast guys, tall guys, shifty guys. The whole assortment. None of them can get off press coverage. We've got the running back tandem that any team in the country would die to have. At some point it's not just about missing pieces.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

I've said plenty this week that we need a result. There is really no debating that. It's time.

That said, there's no way you can rationally look at this program today vs. where it was the day Kiffin bolted and not see how far the program has come. This place was a dumpster fire then, and it was in no better shape after Dooley got canned.

The lifelong fan that I am is tired of the blown leads, moral victories, and losing streaks. That fan is sick and really tired of "wait til next year".

But my rational mind sees what's going on, knows where we are vs. where we've been. And it IS a better place today than 3 years ago. Just some folks that really ramped up the expectation this off season, were probably a year early. I said 8 wins, 9 if we got some breaks, is the ceiling.

So that's my "yes"... In more than a word.

GO VOLS. BEAT FLORIDA.

I'll just say this...we won't be having a top 5 recruiting class again...regardless of whether we have the numbers or not....unless there is major improvement on the field. I don't think even a modest improvement of 8-4 would help much. In order to sustain the Top 10 classes, you HAVE to convert the ones you get into WINS!

Recruits don't buy moral victories and the excuses Butch loves to give, will get old real fast. I think one of the reasons we don't have a Top 10 class right now, is because many of the HS players that would put us into that catergory...the Tevean Feaster's, the Rashan Gary's, the Mercole Hardeman's, the OL Price's, WR Davis' and such....are WAITING AND SEEING.

What is Butch going to show them today and the rest of the season? A Coach who blows leads and loses games he should be winning? Or a Coach who has decided to mash the gas and go all out....as a coach...for 60 minutes?

 

[KBVol]

+1. I've grown sick and tired of hearing the pitch "we're the youngest team in football...we've played this many freshmen....blah.blah.blah."

There will always be some kind of excuse. Part of the reason he has to play so many freshmen is that he either didn't recruit well enough his first year (most of the OL are 3* recruits, as are our starting DT's), mis-evaluated (Dontavius Blair?) or he has failed to develop them.

He has two Behemoth's...both were either 4* or 5*...Charles Mosley and Khalil McKenzie....who are getting scant if any playing time. Something is wrong with this picture. Mosley should be starting either on the DL or OL...and McKenzie is not only the biggest DT we have by far, but the by far the most talented. SCREW this crap of easing him in slowly! Get him in the freakin game!

I'm convinced that if K-Mac and Tuttle had been rotated in regularly in the 2nd half of the OU game, we come away with a win. One reason their offense was suddenly able to produce late in the game is because Janzek coached scared and wouldn't rotate the defensive players. They got gassed and it showed.

If Butch wants to make the occasional reference to the youth at some positions on the team or to some young players in particular, that's fine, that's appropriate, no issue. No problem there.

It's the BS comments like "this team is actually younger this year than last year's team" and all the contorted "we're so young" statistics that a lot of people are getting sick of. Just shut up with the excuses and win the games you should win and about 98% of the critics will shut up and get firmly back in your corner.

 

[jenkins76]

If Butch wants to make the occasional reference to the youth at some positions on the team or to some young players in particular, that's fine, that's appropriate, no issue. No problem there.

It's the BS comments like "this team is actually younger this year than last year's team" and all the contorted "we're so young" statistics that a lot of people are getting sick of. Just shut up with the excuses and win the games you should win and about 98% of the critics will shut up and get firmly back in your corner.

They talk about OU recruiting to their system for 17 years. Didn't they just hire a brand spanking new offensive coordinator?

 

[BanditVol]

But somehow great coaches fully establish themselves as Championship caliber within 2-3 years even given all that. How is it ignorant to expect the same at the University of Tennessee?

They don't. In every situation you could point to they started in a much better condition than what Butch inherited.

 

[jakez4ut]

This thread is ridiculous. I need a win in shame like this as much as anyone...

To pin CBJ's coaching accumen, career, job status or what have you on this, or any single game, isn't fair to him, and doesn't acknowledge the fact that our program in general has developed this identity of earring its own.

Fact is we have beaten FL only 5 times since 1990. And it's the weight of that record, along with current losing streaks to BAMA, and UGA, that he's carrying on his shoulders.

I'll keep saying it... This is a program issue, not a single coach. Fulmer, Dooley, and Kiffin & Jones have combined 1 win against those teams since 2008.

And with every loss is just more weight to carry until we start getting back on the plus side.

We need this win today. But it's more for our well being as fans than it is as a referendum on CBJ.

 

[VOLorNuttin]

I think the answer rests in getting new offensive coaches. We had the opportunity to do it and instead made a hire so bad Fulmer chuckled.

I was actually impressed with all the OL movement against BG, in the first game....but I don't know where that offense went. Haven't seen that kind of movement or blocking since. Not even against an FCS opponent like WC, last week.

Debord had better throw the kitchen sink at UF, if he wants to keep his job, because if he coaches like he did in the 2nd half against OU, that will be 2 losses on the coaches, before we really get started in our SEC schedule.

We'll be right where Ark is, today....all hype and no substance.