If we go 8-4?

#251
#251
MedicT said:
What will the theme of your pontification hold this fall as the inevitable "ruts in the road" occur?
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I am still curious what you do for a living.

In what I do, "rut in the road" excuses... result in a new driver.

So the real question is how will you "pontificate" if there are "ruts in the road" (aka failures) that people criticize rather than excuse... like you want to do.

But by all means... define the inevitable "ruts in the road". I know you are dying once again to practice the clairvoyance that you have deluded yourself into believing you have... mind reader... prophet... You sure seem to be impressed with yourself.
 
#253
#253
sjt18 said:
I am still curious what you do for a living.

In what I do, "rut in the road" excuses... result in a new driver.

So the real question is how will you "pontificate" if there are "ruts in the road" (aka failures) that people criticize rather than excuse... like you want to do.

But by all means... define the inevitable "ruts in the road". I know you are dying once again to practice the clairvoyance that you have deluded yourself into believing you have... mind reader... prophet... You sure seem to be impressed with yourself.
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LOL, pardon me but you are a complete ass.

I am curious as to how your pontification will address the nonlinear nature of team improvement. Will you continue to attack the program in the face of overall improvement?
 
#254
#254
Some point out streaks, some say it's a "curse". Me? I don't view FL, GA or for that matter Mizzou as insurmountable obstacles. Do they have better facilities? No. Resources? No. Better and more In-state talent? Mizzou, questionable. FL and GA yes, but is it a significant advantage? No. Better recruiters? No. So it comes down to coaching and developing.

SEC CG:
FL 7-3 (3-1 since '00 --- 4 appearances / 3 wins in 10 yrs, '00-'09)*
GA 2-3 (2-3 since '00 --- 5 appearances / 2 wins in 11 yrs, '02 -'12)
Mizzou 0-2 (0-2 back-to-back appearances '14 & '15)
TN 2-3 (0-3 since '00 --- 3 appearances in 7 yrs, '01-'07)

If FL* can acheive this level of success, I see no reason why Tennessee cannot. Either Jones and staff get it done or bring in someone that can
 
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#255
#255
lionfoorest said:
If we go 8-4 how upset/happy will the fan base be? I think that 8-4 will be a pretty solid season! I would be real happy with that. Just curious what everybody wants/expects.
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8-4 regular season would be my expectation and a bowl game win would be icing on the cake.
 
#256
#256
MedicT said:
LOL, pardon me but you are a complete ass.
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Right... because I expose you. Get used to it if you keep posting the non-sense you have until now.

I am curious as to how your pontification (speaking of being an ass) will address the nonlinear nature of team improvement. Will you continue to attack the program in the face of overall improvement?
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I have already accounted for "non-linear" improvement. Linear or rather a smooth exponential curve of improvement would peg UT at 9+ wins this fall. That's based on returning more starts, more two deep players, and more starters than any other SEC school coupled with talent and reasonable expectations for development.

A "non-linear" result will be 8 wins. That is basically what we should see just based on almost the same team coming back one year older with no substantial "improvement" about what is "natural".

But the truth is you are just trying to set up an excuse for a lack of improvement.

You really need to climb off that high horse and do a self-check. Are you a Jones fan or a UT fan? Your posts suggest that you are willing to defend Jones to the detriment of UT.
 
#257
#257
zero-sum said:
Some point out streaks, some say it's a "curse". Me? I don't view FL, GA or for that matter Mizzou as insurmountable obstacles. Do they have better facilities? No. Resources? No. Better and more In-state talent? Mizzou, questionable. FL and GA yes, but is it a significant advantage? No. Better recruiters? No. So it comes down to coaching and developing.

SEC CG:
FL 7-3 (3-1 since '00 --- 4 appearances / 3 wins in 10 yrs, '00-'09)*
GA 2-3 (2-3 since '00 --- 5 appearances / 2 wins in 11 yrs, '02 -'12)
Mizzou 0-2 (0-2 back-to-back appearances '14 & '15)
TN 2-3 (0-3 since '00 --- 3 appearances in 7 yrs, '01-'07)

If FL* can acheive this level of success, I see no reason why Tennessee cannot. Either Jones and staff get it done or bring in someone that can
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Mizzou has less in-state talent... and it isn't questionable. Other than that, pretty good post. But to "turn the corner", Jones needs to break these streaks... and eventually the Bama streak.
 
#258
#258
sjt18 said:
the clairvoyance that you have deluded yourself into believing you have... mind reader... prophet... You sure seem to be impressed with yourself.
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:thud::thud::thud: You are describing yourself dude. Your cut & paste skills are impressive but, really .........??????

Come on man, Fulmer left 11/3/2008. That was 6+ years ago. Give it a rest. Today is 3/4/2015. All of his players have graduated. 6 seasons have come and gone since he was there. There are a multitude of things that were not done and plenty of people to blame. Putting all the blame on CPF is ridiculous at this point. Nowhere in my post did I even hint at "my ultimate goal is a second tier program".
I do think our coaches have done a great job of coaching the talent they inherited and the young talent they have brought in. We were in some close games last year that we should have/could have won. I choose to believe that lack of experience on the field had something to do with the results of those games. Coaches coach but players make the plays.
Everyone in this thread is entitled to their opinion, including you. Just keep in mind that yours is not the only one that matters. :no::no::no:
GBO
 
#260
#260
sjt18 said:
Mizzou has less in-state talent... and it isn't questionable. Other than that, pretty good post. But to "turn the corner", Jones needs to break these streaks... and eventually the Bama streak.
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From '08-'13
1. TX 2,147 or 358/yr = 15.3% share
2. FL 1,922 or 320/yr 13.7%
3. CA 1,415 or 237 10.1%
4. GA 950 or 158 6.8%
5. OH 909 or 153 6.5%
6. AL 502 or 84 3.6%
7. LA 499 or 83 3.6%
8. PA 405 or 68 2.9%
9. IL 378 or 63 2.7%
10. MI 361 or 60 2.6%
15. TN 251 or 42/yr = 1.8%
23. MO 143 or 23/yr = 1.%

Top 100 (schools attended)

1. FL = 153
2. TX = 122
3. CA = 104
4. GA = 67
5. OH = 43
6. AL = 34
7. PA = 32
8. LA = 29
9. VA = 28
10. NC = 26
18. TN = 12
20. MO = 11
 
#261
#261
sjt18 said:
Right... because I expose you. Get used to it if you keep posting the non-sense you have until now.



I have already accounted for "non-linear" improvement. Linear or rather a smooth exponential curve of improvement would peg UT at 9+ wins this fall. That's based on returning more starts, more two deep players, and more starters than any other SEC school coupled with talent and reasonable expectations for development.

A "non-linear" result will be 8 wins. That is basically what we should see just based on almost the same team coming back one year older with no substantial "improvement" about what is "natural".

But the truth is you are just trying to set up an excuse for a lack of improvement.

You really need to climb off that high horse and do a self-check. Are you a Jones fan or a UT fan? Your posts suggest that you are willing to defend Jones to the detriment of UT.
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No, I am exposing you for the ass that you are. You have no understanding of athletes or their athletic potential or talent development. You have assured yourself that you do however it is obviously without merit. You want to pontificate based upon your skewed interpretation of data. Interpretation that you interpret based upon your preconceived outcome. Sell it to whatever fools will listen I suppose.
 
#262
#262
MedicT said:
No, I am exposing you for the ass that you are. You have no understanding of athletes or their athletic potential or talent development. You have assured yourself that you do however it is obviously without merit. You want to pontificate based upon your skewed interpretation of data. Interpretation that you interpret based upon your preconceived outcome. Sell it to whatever fools will listen I suppose.
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Not always easy to figure with coaches and players being different from team to team across the country.

What represents potential and development growth in your opinion? Or what is it that you see (in general terms) that tells you the potential (or talent) is there, and whether or not sufficient development is taking place?

:hi:
 
#263
#263
Vol in Kingsport said:
Definitely, it would show a great improvement considering how overall youthfulness we will still be starting.
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How long will youth be an excuse? Just about every kid this year will be one the Butch signed. You do realize Tn played 23 freshman, BUT Ga played 22 and AU was right there as well? Same for Arky.

There is ONE key game this to say if this program is back. TN Has to beat Fla. They are down more than Tn, have been for two years. Butch has to beat someone other than USC. It would do wonders if its FLA. It was won last year...
 
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#264
#264
secking said:
How long will youth be an excuse? Just about every kid this year will be one the Butch signed. You do realize Tn played 23 freshman, BUT Ga played 22 and AU was right there as well? Same for Arky.

There is ONE key game this to say if this program is back. TN Has to beat Fla. They are down more than Tn, have been for two years. Butch has to beat someone other than USC. It would do wonders if its FLA. It was won last year...
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Im sure you will continue to hear about youth. UT has plenty of it right now. But they also have some experienced youth. After this year they will not be considered young any more and definitely not inexperienced.
 
#266
#266
BeecherVol said:
Not always easy to figure with coaches and players being different from team to team across the country.

What represents potential and development growth in your opinion? Or what is it that you see (in general terms) that tells you the potential (or talent) is there, and whether or not sufficient development is taking place?

:hi:
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Many people do not understand how much of a role emotion and attitude play in the game of football. You can look at speed, quickness, and strength, all of which are easily quantified, but this only tells you a small part of the story. That is my gripe with the contributor above, not you BV. He only see's what is in black and white with little understanding of what determines "athletic development." Simply put, I see the heart and determination in Butch Jones and his athletes that tell me UT will be a success. You can't quantify it and SJT can't comprehend what he can't put a number on.
 
#272
#272
MedicT said:
No, I am exposing you for the ass that you are.
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No. You expose no one but yourself when you need to lie and mischaracterize those you argue with in order to sustain your argument... just like you did in your next sentence.

You have no understanding of athletes or their athletic potential or talent development.
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You mean except for watching and following the potential, talent, and development of athletes for years... pretty much like you?

You have assured yourself that you do however it is obviously without merit.
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More self-delusion. You believe because you say something that you need to be true in order to "win" your argument... that alone makes it true.

You want to pontificate based upon your skewed interpretation of data. Interpretation that you interpret based upon your preconceived outcome. Sell it to whatever fools will listen I suppose.
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The only one pontificating here is you. I point to facts, norms, and comparisons. Yes. If you want to speculate what should happen in the future then you take into account history and trends and averages. You don't just yank it out of your rear like you do on a constant basis. You have YET to make an argument based on any of that. You just want to be able to excuse failure.
 
#273
#273
MedicT said:
Many people do not understand how much of a role emotion and attitude play in the game of football. You can look at speed, quickness, and strength, all of which are easily quantified, but this only tells you a small part of the story. That is my gripe with the contributor above, not you BV. He only see's what is in black and white with little understanding of what determines "athletic development."
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NOT TRUE. You again are attempting to build and burn a straw man.

Emotion and attitude and development and all of those intangible things ARE measurable in performance as well as wins and ARE the responsibility of the coach to manage and lead. That's my gripe with YOU. You acknowledge they are factors then seek to use them to absolve the coaches of responsibility if results do not follow.

Simply put, I see the heart and determination in Butch Jones and his athletes that tell me UT will be a success. You can't quantify it and SJT can't comprehend what he can't put a number on.
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What world do you live in? I (READ THAT AGAIN)... I am the one who has the confidence to say this should be an 8 plus win football team because of the talent, discipline, development, and approach of Jones and the athletes. YOU (read it again)... YOU are the one claiming that expecting wins is just too much to expect.

What on EARTH are you labeling "success" if it isn't wins?
 
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#274
#274
mmoosem said:
:thud::thud::thud: You are describing yourself dude. Your cut & paste skills are impressive but, really .........??????
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Really... dude?

I read what people say and respond. I quote them because I want them to understand what I am responding to instead of having them wonder. If you had been paying attention AT ALL then you would have seen that MedicT reads what people write... then proceeds to tell them what they really meant to say... even when it contradicts what they wrote.

Now (while condescendingly attacking folks like me for being "negavols") he has declared that this season going into a rut is inevitable... how's that for a "posivol".

I believe UT should win with what they have. Perhaps not 11 or 12 games yet but 8 to 10 isn't an unreasonable range. I believe they WILL win that many. But I am also willing to say that if they win 7 or less then you have to start taking an honest look at the coaching ability of the staff. Not the recruiting. Not even the development. But the coaching ability.

Come on man, Fulmer left 11/3/2008. That was 6+ years ago. Give it a rest. Today is 3/4/2015. All of his players have graduated. 6 seasons have come and gone since he was there. There are a multitude of things that were not done and plenty of people to blame. Putting all the blame on CPF is ridiculous at this point.
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Come on man... read! I didn't say everything was Fulmer's fault. But he's the one that drove the program into the ditch. DOOLEY nor KIFFIN fixed it... iow's they bear blame for it staying in the ditch... but they didn't put it there.

Nowhere in my post did I even hint at "my ultimate goal is a second tier program".
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You do understand "if/then" statements, right? Unless the goal is a 2nd tier program, an 8-4 result this year would NOT represent "turning" the corner. It could be considered a baby step forward at most. But it would not prove that the Vols are back or that Jones and staff are able to compete in the SEC among the top tier of coaches.


Just keep in mind that yours is not the only one that matters. :no::no::no:
GBO
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I never have. I argue hard with you and anyone else... including folks whose posts I routinely "like" and who routinely "like" mine. Don't be so thin skinned.
 
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