I was in line at GameStop for the PS5 with DJ Henderson. Here’s what i learned.

#51
#51
VFL-82-JP said:
Folks like to think about the Urban Meyers of the world, guys who come in and start having huge success in their first year or two as a head coach.

That does happen. There are plenty of "if you don't win big in the first three years, you won't win big" examples.

But as you point out, there is proof that's far from always true. You mentioned Coach Beamer. Here are a couple of other fellas:

Dabo Swinney's first three years as head coach (all at Clemson):
4-3
9-5
6-7

Nick Saban's first five years (at Toledo for one season, then Michigan State):
9-2
6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6

Now, we could cut Jeremy loose because he's not getting us to championship level as fast as any of us would like.

And, truth in advertising, he might never get us there. No guarantees. He might not be the right guy.

On the other hand, we might be the Michigan State of Pruitt's career. The place where he never won a lot, but where he learned how to be a head coach.

So we have to ask ourselves: do we want to be a Michigan State, paying the price so someone else (LSU and Bama) can reap the rewards? Or do we want to be a Clemson, show a little patience, and see if he'll get the head coaching thing down?

I'm with you, a proponent of giving the man some more time.
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It's unlikely. Saban handled his teams in a completely different manner. Is it a possibility? Yes, but a very small one.

I wouldn't put much stock in this player's opinion
 
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#53
#53
Christian Lowe said:
he said pruitt is smart, and the coaches are good. the older players, for whatever reason, just don’t listen to him when it comes game time. he said guarantano is a genius, and he has everything it takes... in practice. he just loses everything when the lights come on. he doesn’t know why.
he said jennings was crazy, but he knew how to pull the team together. the team doesn’t have that anymore. but overall, he said he thinks pruitt can get it done when the bad apples are gone.

he’s working at amazon in spartanburg, SC where he grew up, also where i grew up. he’s a cool guy. y’all don’t have to believe me, but everything i said here is true.
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right..
 
#54
#54
Part of me wants to believe that. But if these older players don’t listen to what the coaches tell them to do in games, why the hell are they playing still? Let these younger guys who actually want to learn and win play if that’s really what’s happening. Pruitt is responsible for making the best decisions for the team. If what Henderson said is true, then Pruitt has already failed. If the older players aren’t performing, put the youngsters in.
 
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#55
#55
VFL-82-JP said:
Folks like to think about the Urban Meyers of the world, guys who come in and start having huge success in their first year or two as a head coach.

That does happen. There are plenty of "if you don't win big in the first three years, you won't win big" examples.

But as you point out, there is proof that's far from always true. You mentioned Coach Beamer. Here are a couple of other fellas:

Dabo Swinney's first three years as head coach (all at Clemson):
4-3
9-5
6-7

Nick Saban's first five years (at Toledo for one season, then Michigan State):
9-2
6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6

Now, we could cut Jeremy loose because he's not getting us to championship level as fast as any of us would like.

And, truth in advertising, he might never get us there. No guarantees. He might not be the right guy.

On the other hand, we might be the Michigan State of Pruitt's career. The place where he never won a lot, but where he learned how to be a head coach.

So we have to ask ourselves: do we want to be a Michigan State, paying the price so someone else (LSU and Bama) can reap the rewards? Or do we want to be a Clemson, show a little patience, and see if he'll get the head coaching thing down?

I'm with you, a proponent of giving the man some more time.
Click to expand...
I guess to answer , with another question,
Records , wins-losses aside, were 95% of fans , and sports casters thinking and saying what the hell is he thinking or what’s wrong here with the other 2 , or were they thinking they are doing a good job with less talent, but well coached players?
 
#58
#58
Luck? Personally, I've not seen it rear it's head around these parts since '98.
 
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#59
#59
GVol1966 said:
I guess to answer , with another question,
Records , wins-losses aside, were 95% of fans , and sports casters thinking and saying what the hell is he thinking or what’s wrong here with the other 2 , or were they thinking they are doing a good job with less talent, but well coached players?
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At Clemson, they were on the verge of firing Dabo. I mean, razor-thin margin between him and unemployment at the end of his third season at the helm.

Luckily for them, they showed a bit of patience.

For Saban at Michigan State, it was a bit different. For the first four years, they wondered if they had the right guy. Remember, though, this is Michigan State, where you don't necessarily have to be championship caliber to keep your job. So they were wondering if Saban would work out, but no pitchforks. Then, in Saban's 6th year as a head coach, and 5th year at Michigan State, he led the Spartans on a 9-2 campaign. And immediately after left them for LSU.

From _that_ point, Michigan State felt about Nick roughly the way we felt about Kiffin after 2009. Except unlike Kiffin in 2010 and beyond, Saban went on to be the best coach in America. Imagine how we'd have felt if Kiffin had won a championship at USC, then six more at UCLA. That's what Saban's departure was for the Spartans. They're STILL pissed about it.

So it's tough to compare the latter. But that's exactly my point.

How will we like it if we cut Pruitt lose after the 2021 season, and then he goes on to win championships somewhere else?

When we have the option of being like Clemson instead, sitting on our hands another year or two, and see how Pruitt matures into the job.

So yeah, the situations are roughly comparable, especially with Clemson. It's a valid comparison.
 
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#61
#61
BigOrangeMojo said:
Fair point about Dabo. Truth be known, Dabo started on the hot seat there and never really got off of it until he got them in the playoff. He had 3-4 influential boosters on his side and that's the only reason he got the 2011 season.

Here's an ironic tidbit though (from a Clemson booster) - One of the reasons they promoted Dabo up from interim in 2008 was they were behind us/Auburn in the coaching pecking order and thought it would be really difficult to hire a coach.
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Dabo has had such an incredible and unique career there.

He came in as the interim with everybody fully expecting him to just finish out the 2008 season. When they removed the interim tag and signed him to a contract, many of their fans were pissed. When he went 6-7 two seasons later, he was a frog's hair away from being fired, and probably would have been fired if they didn't win the ACCCG the next season.

But even though he won the ACC that year, he allowed 70 to West Virginia in the Orange Bowl and was forced to fire Kevin Steele. He was still off the hot seat for the time being, but could have easily ended up right back there if the Venables hire didn't work out. Then he had 3 really good seasons, but was in the "Clemsoning" phase (couldn't beat FSU or South Carolina). It wasn't until 2015 when they almost beat Bama that he was finally thought of as a great coach, and he's just cemented that fact the nth degree since then.
 
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#63
#63
[QUOTE="VFL-82-JP, post: 18928432, member: 65059"]At Clemson, they were on the verge of firing Dabo. I mean, razor-thin margin between him and unemployment at the end of his third season at the helm.

Luckily for them, they showed a bit of patience.

For Saban at Michigan State, it was a bit different. For the first four years, they wondered if they had the right guy. Remember, though, this is Michigan State, where you don't necessarily have to be championship caliber to keep your job. So they were wondering if Saban would work out, but no pitchforks. Then, in Saban's 6th year as a head coach, and 5th year at Michigan State, he led the Spartans on a 9-2 campaign. And immediately after left them for LSU.

From _that_ point, Michigan State felt about Nick roughly the way we felt about Kiffin after 2009. Except unlike Kiffin in 2010 and beyond, Saban went on to be the best coach in America. Imagine how we'd have felt if Kiffin had won a championship at USC, then six more at UCLA. That's what Saban's departure was for the Spartans. They're STILL pissed about it.

So it's tough to compare the latter. But that's exactly my point.

How will we like it if we cut Pruitt lose after the 2021 season, and then he goes on to win championships somewhere else?

When we have the option of being like Clemson instead, sitting on our hands another year or two, and see how Pruitt matures into the job.

So yeah, the situations are roughly comparable, especially with Clemson. It's a valid comparison.[/QUOTE]
But why? Just because the record wasn’t great or weren’t winning or did the team looked lost on the field, did they seem to quit half the time, have no fire, questions of coaching malpractice?
If it’s not all of the above, then the situation isn’t comparable!
I didn’t watch Clemson back then but I find it hard to imagine that Dabo’s teams looked like Pruitts do during games or he made as many head scratcher decisions.
 
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#64
#64
05_never_again said:
Dabo has had such an incredible and unique career there.

He came in as the interim with everybody fully expecting him to just finish out the 2008 season. When they removed the interim tag and signed him to a contract, many of their fans were pissed. When he went 6-7 two seasons later, he was a frog's hair away from being fired, and probably would have been fired if they didn't win the ACCCG the next season.

But even though he won the ACC that year, he allowed 70 to West Virginia in the Orange Bowl and was forced to fire Kevin Steele. He was still off the hot seat for the time being, but could have easily ended up right back there if the Venables hire didn't work out. Then he had 3 really good seasons, but was in the "Clemsoning" phase (couldn't beat FSU or South Carolina). It wasn't until 2015 when they almost beat Bama that he was finally thought of as a great coach, and he's just cemented that fact the nth degree since then.
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And, that really affected our recent coaching history. Dooley had to underhire with Sal Sunseri (who I expected to be good), and 2012 happened, and then that setup the past 8 seasons.
I agree that juniors and seniors not jumping when the coaches tell them to during games or practice, should not only be benched, but publicly given a stone cold stunner on their way to the transfer portal.
 
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#66
#66
GVol1966 said:
But why? Just because the record wasn’t great or weren’t winning or did the team looked lost on the field, did they seem to quit half the time, have no fire, questions of coaching malpractice?
If it’s not all of the above, then the situation isn’t comparable!
I didn’t watch Clemson back then but I find it hard to imagine that Dabo’s teams looked like Pruitts do during games or he made as many head scratcher decisions.
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Here's a simple fact that, once you hear it, you'll say, "oh. yeah.":

Every loss looks ugly as hell to passionate fans of a losing team. I mean, fugly. It never looks reasonable.

I mean, tell me the last pretty loss you remember the Vols suffering.

The losing team always looks lost, they seem to have quit, they seem to have no fire, when the fan base is unreasonable.

And we're unreasonable. Because we want to be champions. So it all looks like dog poop when we lose.

Same for Clemson fans when they were losing, I'm sure. It's in the nature of passionate fandom.
 
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#68
#68
VFL-82-JP said:
At Clemson, they were on the verge of firing Dabo. I mean, razor-thin margin between him and unemployment at the end of his third season at the helm.

Luckily for them, they showed a bit of patience.

For Saban at Michigan State, it was a bit different. For the first four years, they wondered if they had the right guy. Remember, though, this is Michigan State, where you don't necessarily have to be championship caliber to keep your job. So they were wondering if Saban would work out, but no pitchforks. Then, in Saban's 6th year as a head coach, and 5th year at Michigan State, he led the Spartans on a 9-2 campaign. And immediately after left them for LSU.

From _that_ point, Michigan State felt about Nick roughly the way we felt about Kiffin after 2009. Except unlike Kiffin in 2010 and beyond, Saban went on to be the best coach in America. Imagine how we'd have felt if Kiffin had won a championship at USC, then six more at UCLA. That's what Saban's departure was for the Spartans. They're STILL pissed about it.

So it's tough to compare the latter. But that's exactly my point.

How will we like it if we cut Pruitt lose after the 2021 season, and then he goes on to win championships somewhere else?

When we have the option of being like Clemson instead, sitting on our hands another year or two, and see how Pruitt matures into the job.

So yeah, the situations are roughly comparable, especially with Clemson. It's a valid comparison.
Click to expand...

You mean Dabo's second full season?
 
#70
#70
VolNRaleighNC said:
Stopped reading at “JG is a genius”
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JG is very intelligent. That's not his issue. Indeed, that's part of the reason why the coaches keep sticking with him IMO. He's the guy who knows the playbook the best.

I agree JG should probably be put on the shelf and Bailey should be starting, but I don't like seeing people trash him for no reason. The dude's smart and tough as nails. Those aren't his issues.
 
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#72
#72
TN-POSSUM said:
I believe you, because I can see it on the field. I also believe we'll get better when the 5th yr QB and the seniors are gone. Jennings was a visually, vocal leader that wanted to win. JJ bought into Pruitt, after he got his 2nd chance to play ball. JJ's gone, so there's no player holding the team responsible (I thought it would be Trey and I've been disappointed in his leadership this year.) Something changed at halftime of the GA game this year and the team's not been right since. CJP needs to be playing the younger players now, I don't know why he's not.

I'm not sure if Pruitt will get it done here but I'm hoping he does. I don't like some of his position coaches and think Weinke and Friend should be gone this year. I'm just sick of coaching searches every 4 - 5 years.
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I do believe that there was something major that happened in the locker room at the Ga. game and we may never know what it was but whatever it was has really split the team and until that is clear or if it ever is clear then Pruitt does not stand a chance of ever wining at UT. And boy oh boy I would love to know what went on in that locker room to cause this!!!!
 
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#74
#74
VFL-82-JP said:
At Clemson, they were on the verge of firing Dabo. I mean, razor-thin margin between him and unemployment at the end of his third season at the helm.

Luckily for them, they showed a bit of patience.

For Saban at Michigan State, it was a bit different. For the first four years, they wondered if they had the right guy. Remember, though, this is Michigan State, where you don't necessarily have to be championship caliber to keep your job. So they were wondering if Saban would work out, but no pitchforks. Then, in Saban's 6th year as a head coach, and 5th year at Michigan State, he led the Spartans on a 9-2 campaign. And immediately after left them for LSU.

From _that_ point, Michigan State felt about Nick roughly the way we felt about Kiffin after 2009. Except unlike Kiffin in 2010 and beyond, Saban went on to be the best coach in America. Imagine how we'd have felt if Kiffin had won a championship at USC, then six more at UCLA. That's what Saban's departure was for the Spartans. They're STILL pissed about it.

So it's tough to compare the latter. But that's exactly my point.

How will we like it if we cut Pruitt lose after the 2021 season, and then he goes on to win championships somewhere else?

When we have the option of being like Clemson instead, sitting on our hands another year or two, and see how Pruitt matures into the job.

So yeah, the situations are roughly comparable, especially with Clemson. It's a valid comparison.
Click to expand...
I'm in the be patient camp, it's frustrating but I believe Pruitt is going to be ok in the long run. I am worried a bit about our S&C program as we just are not as big and physical as I expected us to be this season.
 
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