I was in line at GameStop for the PS5 with DJ Henderson. Here’s what i learned.

[MurphyVol]

I wonder how Sam Pittman got his players to listen to him?

I've heard so much over the years about how coach X needs to purge the roster of coach Y's players, just wait until he gets "his guys" blah , blah, blah. Meanwhile good coaches just come in and win with what they have.

 

[Aj82]

Dabo Swinney

they used to call it clemsoning every year.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

Folks like to think about the Urban Meyers of the world, guys who come in and start having huge success in their first year or two as a head coach.

That does happen. There are plenty of "if you don't win big in the first three years, you won't win big" examples.

But as you point out, there is proof that's far from always true. You mentioned Coach Beamer. Here are a couple of other fellas:

Dabo Swinney's first three years as head coach (all at Clemson):
4-3
9-5
6-7

Nick Saban's first five years (at Toledo for one season, then Michigan State):
9-2
6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6

Now, we could cut Jeremy loose because he's not getting us to championship level as fast as any of us would like.

And, truth in advertising, he might never get us there. No guarantees. He might not be the right guy.

On the other hand, we might be the Michigan State of Pruitt's career. The place where he never won a lot, but where he learned how to be a head coach.

So we have to ask ourselves: do we want to be a Michigan State, paying the price so someone else (LSU and Bama) can reap the rewards? Or do we want to be a Clemson, show a little patience, and see if he'll get the head coaching thing down?

I'm with you, a proponent of giving the man some more time.

How many blowout embarrassing losses by Saban amd Sweeney in those records?


Without checking i would bet CJP is pretty far ahead of them in that category

 

[BisonVol]

I'm saving this post for when Pruitt wins the SEC and a national championship and you're going to eat those words!

Lol

 

[BlinghamptonVol]

Why do we assume it’s ‘Butch’s guys’ that aren’t buying in? They’ve stayed for 3 years to play for Pruitt. Also, they could have opted out this year, kept their scholarship, and looked to transfer. Maybe it’s ‘Pruitt’s guys’ that aren’t buying in or have bad attitudes because they were sold one thing in recruiting and see something different when they get here. Like, ‘every position is an open competition’ and then they only start to get practice reps during a scrimmage halfway through the year. Or they didn’t even get practice reps at the scrimmage halfway through the year.

 

[Carp]

Our players went 0-8 in the SEC the year before Pruitt got here, they should have been pretty humble after that, especially with the magnitude of some of the beat downs we got in Butch's last year 45-7 by Bama, 41-0 by Georgia and 50-17 by Missouri, freaking MISSOURI. Pruitt's first team turned around and lost to Missouri by the same margin.

Most of those guys were used to winning before 2017 though and we know Butch coddled them. And despite on how bad we were in 2017, we weren't nearly as terrible as Arkansas has been the last 2 years.

Also, Mizzou was pretty decent in 2017 and 2018. That's when they had Drew Lock.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Why do we assume it’s ‘Butch’s guys’ that aren’t buying in? They’ve stayed for 3 years to play for Pruitt. Also, they could have opted out this year, kept their scholarship, and looked to transfer. Maybe it’s ‘Pruitt’s guys’ that aren’t buying in or have bad attitudes because they were sold one thing in recruiting and see something different when they get here. Like, ‘every position is an open competition’ and then they only start to get practice reps during a scrimmage halfway through the year. Or they didn’t even get practice reps at the scrimmage halfway through the year.

Logic will lead you to the truth in situations like this.

If you're a senior or redshirt senior who sticks around this long to play for a brand new coach it's most likely because you have no prospects. You aren't very good. Otherwise you'd be in the NFL by now or would have jumped ship to a team that can contend. These guys have been in practice and they know how much they suck and have known it but you have to have a brave public face.

On the other side Pruitt needs warm bodies otherwise he can't field a team. Pruitt maybe doesn't like the culture/work ethic of his upper classmen but he cant sacrifice all of them. He needs them to get through these early years just to survive.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Most of those guys were used to winning before 2017 though and we know Butch coddled them. And despite on how bad we were in 2017, we weren't nearly as terrible as Arkansas has been the last 2 years.

Also, Mizzou was pretty decent in 2017 and 2018. That's when they had Drew Lock.

This is the think people need to remember, Tennessee was never as bad as Arkansas was. Tennessee has never gone 2-10 let alone done it two years in a row. Chad Morris was a nightmare for them. So much he didn't even survive to the end of year 2.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

At Clemson, they were on the verge of firing Dabo. I mean, razor-thin margin between him and unemployment at the end of his third season at the helm.

Luckily for them, they showed a bit of patience.

For Saban at Michigan State, it was a bit different. For the first four years, they wondered if they had the right guy. Remember, though, this is Michigan State, where you don't necessarily have to be championship caliber to keep your job. So they were wondering if Saban would work out, but no pitchforks. Then, in Saban's 6th year as a head coach, and 5th year at Michigan State, he led the Spartans on a 9-2 campaign. And immediately after left them for LSU.

From _that_ point, Michigan State felt about Nick roughly the way we felt about Kiffin after 2009. Except unlike Kiffin in 2010 and beyond, Saban went on to be the best coach in America. Imagine how we'd have felt if Kiffin had won a championship at USC, then six more at UCLA. That's what Saban's departure was for the Spartans. They're STILL pissed about it.

So it's tough to compare the latter. But that's exactly my point.

How will we like it if we cut Pruitt lose after the 2021 season, and then he goes on to win championships somewhere else?

When we have the option of being like Clemson instead, sitting on our hands another year or two, and see how Pruitt matures into the job.

So yeah, the situations are roughly comparable, especially with Clemson. It's a valid comparison.

Sitting on your hands rarely accomplishes your end goal.

Being patient i understand...giving extensions and raises to an undeserving staff is the very opposite of what the AD should be doing.

Pretending to be patient while blowout loss after embarrassing loss piles up..isnt being patient, it is whistling past the graveyard.


But what irks the living @#&$ out of me is the fact that the administration and apparently many fans have devalued our program to the point that a HC learning on the job is acceptable. That is BS and the exact reason our program sucks ass right now. Even the Kiffin hire was using our program as an apprenticeship...IMO in 2008 UT was at a level that this type approach wasnt necessary and yet we pursued that path to this end...

 

[give_him 6]

I am so sick of hearing about Butch's players not buying in. Someone made a great point about Pittman turning things around with Chad Morris' players and Dan Mullen is doing it with Shark Humper's players. Good coaches find a way.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I am so sick of hearing about Butch's players not buying in. Someone made a great point about Pittman turning things around with Chad Morris' players and Dan Mullen is doing it with Shark Humper's players. Good coaches find a way.

It's not that they aren't "bought in". It's because they just aren't as good as people wished they were. Red shirt seniors are a sure sign your program isn't in good shape, It's sort of like finding cockroaches in the kitchen. How many red shirt seniors is Nick Saban starting? Good players go to the NFL and don't stick around. Start your examination of the football program right there.

 

[PG1]

So he said JG is great in practice yet in games against opposing D’s he’s bad hmmm. So what he actually is saying is our own D really sucks if JG is shredding them in practice

 

[give_him 6]

It's not that they aren't "bought in". It's because they just aren't as good as people wished they were. Red shirt seniors are a sure sign your program isn't in good shape, It's sort of like finding cockroaches in the kitchen. How many red shirt seniors is Nick Saban starting? Good players go to the NFL and don't stick around. Start your examination of the football program right there.

It hasn't hindered Arkansas. Its an excuse, which is why we are in a 13 year rut.

 

[igotworms]

Folks like to think about the Urban Meyers of the world, guys who come in and start having huge success in their first year or two as a head coach.

That does happen. There are plenty of "if you don't win big in the first three years, you won't win big" examples.

But as you point out, there is proof that's far from always true. You mentioned Coach Beamer. Here are a couple of other fellas:

Dabo Swinney's first three years as head coach (all at Clemson):
4-3
9-5
6-7

Nick Saban's first five years (at Toledo for one season, then Michigan State):
9-2
6-5-1
6-6
7-5
6-6

Now, we could cut Jeremy loose because he's not getting us to championship level as fast as any of us would like.

And, truth in advertising, he might never get us there. No guarantees. He might not be the right guy.

On the other hand, we might be the Michigan State of Pruitt's career. The place where he never won a lot, but where he learned how to be a head coach.

So we have to ask ourselves: do we want to be a Michigan State, paying the price so someone else (LSU and Bama) can reap the rewards? Or do we want to be a Clemson, show a little patience, and see if he'll get the head coaching thing down?

I'm with you, a proponent of giving the man some more time.

Now do a breakdown of talent on those teams in first five years

Think it's on the same level as TN?
Talent is better than those coaches and first few years you mentioned
Those are better coaches is my point

 

[GulfCoasterVol]

If true.... and the "older" players won't listen on game day ( insubordinate - defiant of authority: disobedient to orders ?).... and since the season is already shot to all kinds of hell ....

Should their playing days not be over ? Should we go all in and get started on the next generation to see if we can get them better prepared for future seasons ?

 

[MWAVolfan]

It hasn't hindered Arkansas. Its an excuse, which is why we are in a 13 year rut.

Arkansas beat UT because they have a QB that can execute and we don't. You really don't have to look any deeper than that.

 

[MWAVolfan]

If true.... and the "older" players won't listen on game day ( insubordinate - defiant of authority: disobedient to orders ?).... and since the season is already shot to all kinds of hell ....

Should their playing days not be over ? Should we go all in and get started on the next generation to see if we can get them better prepared for future seasons ?

I dont think so. Dont want to risk the future. Let the crappy older players risk getting hurt. Save your young players and only give those guys the reps in practice.

 

[Carp]

I am so sick of hearing about Butch's players not buying in. Someone made a great point about Pittman turning things around with Chad Morris' players and Dan Mullen is doing it with Shark Humper's players. Good coaches find a way.

Again, Arkansas had nowhere to go but up. They were like early 2000's Vandy bad the last 2 years.

Dan Mullen is a better coach than Pruitt. I think that much has been clear from even before Pruitt took the job. Mullen has roughly 9 years of HC experience over Pruitt and was very successful at MSU.

 

[give_him 6]

Again, Arkansas had nowhere to go but up. They were like early 2000's Vandy bad the last 2 years.

Dan Mullen is a better coach than Pruitt. I think that much has been clear from even before Pruitt took the job. Mullen has roughly 9 years of HC experience over Pruitt and was very successful at MSU.

Exactly. They aren't using excuses as we have after every coaching change. They are doing it in Year 1. Arkansas is doing it with Conference USA caliber players. We have 4 and 5-star recruits out there. They outrank us in team offense and defense.

 

[give_him 6]

Arkansas beat UT because they have a QB that can execute and we don't. You really don't have to look any deeper than that.

Oh its much deeper than that. Is Franks better than JG, of course, but Arkansas came out the second half after making adjustments and ran a balanced offense (215 yards passing and 198 yards rushing) and played solid defense. Our coaches had no answers in 3rd and 4th quarter. The Vols rolled over. They were outcoached and outplayed. If you compare the caliber athletes of the two teams, we are hands down more talented athletically. We just didn't put our players in a position to succeed.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Oh its much deeper than that. Is Franks better than JG, of course, but Arkansas came out the second half after making adjustments and ran a balanced offense (215 yards passing and 198 yards rushing) and played solid defense. Our coaches had no answers in 3rd and 4th quarter. The Vols rolled over. They were outcoached and outplayed. If you compare the caliber athletes of the two teams, we are hands down more talented athletically. We just didn't put our players in a position to succeed.

Nope. Arkansas had a couple huge plays that Franks executed correctly for scores and that was the entire difference in the game

JG tried to throw a deep pass that SHOULD have been pass interference but the umpire said it was an uncatchable ball because JG horribly overthrew his man. You literally can't make this sh!t up. Only at UT!!!!!

 

[Carp]

Exactly. They aren't using excuses as we have after every coaching change. They are doing it in Year 1. Arkansas is doing it with Conference USA caliber players. We have 4 and 5-star recruits out there. They outrank us in team offense and defense.

Doing what in year 1? They are 3-3 with at least 2 more guaranteed losses on the schedule. This is an odd year all around. LSU dominated the entire world last year and this year lost to MS State and Mizzu. I've said all along no one should put much weight into this season because of COVID. Just be happy we have football to watch.

 

[give_him 6]

Doing what in year 1? They are 3-3 with at least 2 more guaranteed losses on the schedule. This is an odd year all around. LSU dominated the entire world last year and this year lost to MS State and Mizzu. I've said all along no one should put much weight into this season because of COVID. Just be happy we have football to watch.

They are 3-3 on track for a bowl. We are 2-4. They beat us. Be happy with that?

 

[give_him 6]

Nope. Arkansas had a couple huge plays that Franks executed correctly for scores and that was the entire difference in the game

JG tried to throw a deep pass that SHOULD have been pass interference but the umpire said it was an uncatchable ball because JG horribly overthrew his man. You literally can't make this sh!t up. Only at UT!!!!!

Nope. Arkansas ran a balanced offense and played better with lesser players. Stats don't lie.

 

[05_never_again]

It's also inaccurate. There were a lot of irate Clemson fans who wanted to fire Dabo after both 2010 and 2011. You seem to be forgetting that going 10-4 with a lot of blowout losses in the ACC in 2011 was not viewed very favorably. The ACC was extremely weak back then and getting blown out by both South Carolina and West Virginia was not a good sign of Clemson's competitiveness nationally.

Not only that, but then they went "Clemsoning" for a while after 2011. He was winning 9 or 10 regular season games a year, but still couldn't beat FSU or South Carolina.

He didn't enter into rarified air in the coaching ranks until he made the CFP title game in 2015.