Hypothetical Situation...

#51
#51
LWSVOL said:
I think they have to keep him another year at least.

there is going to be some coaching changes. Some by Dooley (and those probably soon) and then we are going to lose other coaches. Too many staffs ahve opened up and those west coast jobs concern me with our defensive staff. these might not happen for another 2-4 weeks.
Click to expand...

At that point, LWS, what real reason would we have for keeping him? He couldn't hire a good staff, (I think you agree with that). He hasn't shown an ability to win with the current staff; at that point, why not cut your losses and open the checkbook and go after someone you think can win?
 
#52
#52
LWSVOL said:
just because I'm yapping doesn't mean I'm right. if it happens, I guess we can see which way it goes.. I respect everyone elses stance on the subject.
Click to expand...

We all respect your opinion as well. That's the entire point of this thread is to discuss possibilities. Everyone's opinion is welcome.
 
#53
#53
LawVol13 said:
At that point, LWS, what real reason would we have for keeping him? He couldn't hire a good staff, (I think you agree with that). He hasn't shown an ability to win with the current staff; at that point, why not cut your losses and open the checkbook and go after someone you think can win?
Click to expand...

There isn't any. Stability is blown if you're replacing half your defensive staff and half your offensive staff.

It's really not fair to Dooley to tell him to cobble a staff together for one year and then show him the door (because that's going to happen without massive improvements, improvements which will be damn near impossible if you're replacing 5 or 6 guys from a 9 person staff).
 
#54
#54
LawVol13 said:
At that point, LWS, what real reason would we have for keeping him? He couldn't hire a good staff, (I think you agree with that). He hasn't shown an ability to win with the current staff; at that point, why not cut your losses and open the checkbook and go after someone you think can win?
Click to expand...

they have just never opened it up. I can't explain that but I can say, there is no guarantee that approach gets the best guy or ensure success. Be bad to pay 10-15 million and fire someone else with a large buyout
 
#56
#56
LWSVOL said:
they have just never opened it up. I can't explain that but I can say, there is no guarantee that approach gets the best guy or ensure success. Be bad to pay 10-15 million and fire someone else with a large buyout
Click to expand...

I hope we have learned our lesson with large buy-outs.
 
#57
#57
LawVol13 said:
I think it's a crapshoot with those guys. For every Wilcox, there's a guy that sucks. Dooley would have to bat 1.000 on hiring up and comers, and I doubt that's realistic.
Click to expand...

Everything you say is correct but I just think starting with a new HC again isn't the thing to do even if huge staff changes come. Maybe DD is a hot hitter and keeps batting 1.000, and we don't have to hit the rewind button and relive the last 3 years again. Its kind of like hitting 16 in blackjack against a face card. You don't want to do it but you have to.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#58
#58
LWSVOL said:
they have just never opened it up. I can't explain that but I can say, there is no guarantee that approach gets the best guy or ensure success. Be bad to pay 10-15 million and fire someone else with a large buyout
Click to expand...

They never opened it up with Mike Hamilton, agreed. ALso, I agree that there is no foolproof way of hiring coaches, but I think everyone realizes that offering $4 or $5 million per attracts better coaches than offering $1.8 million.
 
#59
#59
LWSVOL said:
I think they have to keep him another year at least.

there is going to be some coaching changes. Some by Dooley (and those probably soon) and then we are going to lose other coaches. Too many staffs ahve opened up and those west coast jobs concern me with our defensive staff. these might not happen for another 2-4 weeks.
Click to expand...

If he loses 1/2 of the staff which could include at least 1 coordinator, (maybe both) Your starting over by default anyway IMO. Especially if 2 or 3 of those leaving you want to keep.
 
#60
#60
Dang Law... That's tough. I'd say keep him.

It would suck to lose those guys but consider how we got them to begin with. It would be more difficult for Dooley to replace them right now because of the circumstances but all it will take is 8 wins next year for him another year and I think a good assistant will have enough confidence in himself to prove his worth over a 2 year period and boost his resume at Tennessee especially with our young talent. If I were a good wr or lb coach I'd be licking my chops at Tennessee's young talent and assume I'm good enough to help Dooley get to 8 wins next year. Am I making sense? Basically I think Tenn would be more appealing than you let on
 
#62
#62
UCLA is paying $250,000 to buy out Neuheisel. It is absolutely mindboggling that we would give a virtual unknown with a subpar record the kind of contract Dooley negotiated. He's obviously a very good lawyer.

If we lose key staff positions, I would be in favor of cleaning house, including Dooley, if we can find the $$ for his buyout and be willing and able to pay someone more experienced who can compete in the SEC. I think Dooley is years away from developing the skill set we need, and there is no compelling evidence that he ever will. There's a price for playing big boy ball in the SEC, and we either pay it and play it or we don't. JMO, of course. YMMV.
 
#63
#63
LA Vol said:
UCLA is paying $250,000 to buy out Neuheisel. It is absolutely mindboggling that we would give a virtual unknown with a subpar record the kind of contract Dooley negotiated. He's obviously a very good lawyer.

If we lose key staff positions, I would be in favor of cleaning house, including Dooley, if we can find the $$ for his buyout and be willing and able to pay someone more experienced who can compete in the SEC. I think Dooley is years away from developing the skill set we need, and there is no evidence that he ever will. There's a price for playing big boy ball in the SEC, and we either pay it and play it or we don't. We need to decide who we want to be and take the steps to make it happen. JMO. YMMV.
Click to expand...

I understand the sentiment but the buyouts went both ways.

According to a Memorandum of Understanding acquired by the News Sentinel on Wednesday, the Vols and their new coach seem to have financially tied themselves together, setting a buyout for Dooley if he resigns at $4 million for the next two seasons and $5 million for the next three if he were to be fired.

For UT, that’s surely a direct response to getting burned by Lane Kiffin in January, when an $800,000 price tag helped ease his jump to Southern California. And for Dooley it’s a bit of insurance that he’ll be given some time to clean up the mess his predecessor left behind.
Click to expand...
 
#64
#64
LWSVOL said:
would not have gotten dooley without the buyout. no telling who we would have had
Click to expand...

I wish we had passed and named Kippy interim coach. Hindsight, I know, but those were crazy concessions for an unknown commodity and have backed us into a very tight corner.
 
#65
#65
What head coach would we get? Hart would face the same problems in naming a HC that Dooley would face in trying to rebuild his staff and the incoming coach would face the same problems as well. There is no easy way out of the mess we're in. The best way IMO is to allow our young players to have a natural development which means as little coaching turnover as possible.
 
#67
#67
Well, there's no good solution, and we don't have all the facts to make the best decision. Dooley has divided the fanbase and if he is losing, or has lost, the respect of the players, then it becomes when and how much damage control we need. I believe that yanking the bandaid off hurts less and heals faster, but again, that's JMO. I don't know what the answer is. But I, personally, do not think Dooley has given any indication that he will be any more than what he has been, and the player situation is concerning.
 
#68
#68
LawVol13 said:
If Sirmon, Baggett, and Wilcox leave (not saying this is likely or unlikely to happen; it's purely a hypothetical), would you be in favor of keeping Derek Dooley?

Remember to consider that he's most likely going to also have to fire offensive assistants, so he would be faced with having to essentially hire an entirely new staff while being squarely on the hot seat. Consider whether you think this would affect his ability to hire quality assistants.

My answer is, under this scenario, I would be in favor of firing Dooley.
Click to expand...

In my mind you would have no other option than to fire him, unfortunate but necessary IMO
 
#70
#70
justingroves said:
There isn't any. Stability is blown if you're replacing half your defensive staff and half your offensive staff.

It's really not fair to Dooley to tell him to cobble a staff together for one year and then show him the door (because that's going to happen without massive improvements, improvements which will be damn near impossible if you're replacing 5 or 6 guys from a 9 person staff).
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. Learning a new system would be tough on the defense but what if Dooley promoted Thompson to DC and we ran the same Scheme? The only difference in Laws scenario would be who is teaching technique to our LBs and WRs, two of the strongest units on our team, and who is calling plays on defense. I still think we could win 8
 
#71
#71
volfan_28 said:
I respectfully disagree. Learning a new system would be tough on the defense but what if Dooley promoted Thompson to DC and we ran the same Scheme? The only difference in Laws scenario would be who is teaching technique to our LBs and WRs, two of the strongest units on our team, and who is calling plays on defense. I still think we could win 8
Click to expand...

Thompson has already failed as a DC once and he doesn't run anything close to what Wilcox runs.

You don't win 8 games with a lame duck HC begging guys to spend a year here.

If those guys leave, you start over
 
#72
#72
I am assuming that, if we lose position coaches, we will lose our key ones. Dooley will fire those he does not feel are doing a good job, and other schools will poach the ones we value most. I would be shocked if Wilcox doesn't get offered one of these West Coast openings, and they will probably make it worth his while to come.
 
#73
#73
justingroves said:
Thompson has already failed as a DC once and he doesn't run anything close to what Wilcox runs.

You don't win 8 games with a lame duck HC begging guys to spend a year here.

If those guys leave, you start over
Click to expand...

I'm unaware of Thompson being a DC. Not saying you're wrong I just didn't know. I don't know what his system would look like but after coaching under Saban, Monte, and Wilcox I'd assume that he has learned a thing or two and could at least make the loss of Wilcox easier on the players.

Nobody said Dooleys begging anybody. If you don't want to coach in front of 100,000 in the SEC for as much money as you'll make anywhere I'm sure Dooley can find someone that does
 
#74
#74
LawVol13 said:
If Sirmon, Baggett, and Wilcox leave (not saying this is likely or unlikely to happen; it's purely a hypothetical), would you be in favor of keeping Derek Dooley?

Remember to consider that he's most likely going to also have to fire offensive assistants, so he would be faced with having to essentially hire an entirely new staff while being squarely on the hot seat. Consider whether you think this would affect his ability to hire quality assistants.

My answer is, under this scenario, I would be in favor of firing Dooley.
Click to expand...

I think I would have to agree with you, Law. A more telling sign in that scenario would be 3 coaches leaving the program to begin with. This alone would almost suggest that those leaving don't have any confidence in Dooley. They know him better than anyone on this board and work with him on a daily basis. If they leave, take it as a sign that they have given up on Dooley; I'm certain most would follow that lead.
 
#75
#75
volfan_28 said:
I'm unaware of Thompson being a DC. Not saying you're wrong I just didn't know. I don't know what his system would look like but after coaching under Saban, Monte, and Wilcox I'd assume that he has learned a thing or two and could at least make the loss of Wilcox easier on the players.

Nobody said Dooleys begging anybody. If you don't want to coach in front of 100,000 in the SEC for as much money as you'll make anywhere I'm sure Dooley can find someone that does
Click to expand...

He was the DC at Central Florida.

Job security matters. No assistant coach worth a damn is going to come here for one season.
 
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top