How about a realistic situation that we can all agree on?

[West Vol]

2024 proved that a Tim Banks defense can work if he has the right players. Unfortunately, we lost arguably our 5-6 best defensive players from last years team.

Now, part of not having the right players falls on Banks and the defensive coaching staff on recruiting. But how might this defense look if McCoy and Gibson were healthy and if Boo was playing with effort?

That defense got shredded whenever it faced a competent offense. It works as long as we have elite DL talent and only play teams with bad quarterbacks. It’s garbage.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Patience is hard when one sees that Curt Cignetti stepped into a HEAVILY below water Indiana program and took them to the CFP his first year AND is on his way to taking them there again this year.

Granted, Josh Heupel stepped into sanctions and a complete rebuild and performed a near miracle to do what he's done but there's little confidence that we're not treading water at this point.

Cignetti seems to be improving the Indiana program in each of his 2 years there after taking over a..... 2-10? 4-8? something like that program.

Yeah, yeah, the B1G isn't the SEC. It isn't but Indiana didn't just suck a little, they sucked a lot when he got there. Patience isn't easy when you see a #2 Indiana.

He’s a 500 coach in the SEC

 

[West Vol]

He’s a 500 coach in the SEC

-Volnation on Urban Meyer, circa 2004

 

[Orangeslice13]

-Volnation on Urban Meyer, circa 2004

Said nobody on VN ever.

 

[West Vol]

Said nobody on VN ever.

Not only that, but there were plenty saying Saban was a snake oil salesman that Fulmer would quickly chase off.

 

[Orangeslice13]

 

[West Vol]

View attachment 787760

Question for those who want Fulmer gone

I asked this under another topic, but I dont know if anyone will see it. Its a subject that may be a good subject to discuss. What coach would want the pressure of coaching a program that fires the previous coach for having 9 wins and taking his young team to the SECCG?

www.volnation.com

Question for those who want Fulmer gone

I asked this under another topic, but I dont know if anyone will see it. Its a subject that may be a good subject to discuss. What coach would want the pressure of coaching a program that fires the previous coach for having 9 wins and taking his young team to the SECCG?

www.volnation.com

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

Maybe? But heupel needs to feel the heat first to force any change! As long as the sun shine pumpers continue to make excuses for him and his apathy then nothing will change! So up folks that criticize folks like myself that want some change basically you are enabling his apathy’s JMHO!

No. Josh doesn't need to feel any heat.


Nice new account there troll.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Chill with the demeaning talk about the Air Force. Air Force pilots have saved thousands of marines over the years deep in enemy territory.

Also Cignetti coaches the Hoosiers. Not the fighting Illini

Hoosiers, Illini ... really not much difference. But I did correct the error. Thanks for that.

As for the Air Force, heh, were you an airman?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

He’s a 500 coach in the SEC

I NEVER suggested replacing Heupel but I suggested Cignetti took over a program that was trash in the B1G and took them to the CFP last year and will again this year.

It begs the question for us, how did he turn it around like Heupel did UT -----AND----- manage to maintain that success?

So far I've been told they play a trash schedule but they've always played a trash schedule and were 2-10 the year before Cignetti got there. SOMETHING changed and he managed to sustain it.

We've not managed to repeat the success we had after Hooker nor after last year. Are we trash? Certainly not. Are we consistent? Not really.

That's my question. How can we achieve that kind of consistency? It has nothing to do with replacing Heupel and everything to do with winning consistently enough to be a contender for CFP on a yearly basis.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I NEVER suggested replacing Heupel but I suggested Cignetti took over a program that was trash in the B1G and took them to the CFP last year and will again this year.

It begs the question for us, how did he turn it around like Heupel did UT -----AND----- manage to maintain that success?

So far I've been told they play a trash schedule but they've always played a trash schedule and were 2-10 the year before Cignetti got there. SOMETHING changed and he managed to sustain it.

We've not managed to repeat the success we had after Hooker nor after last year. Are we trash? Certainly not. Are we consistent? Not really.

That's my question. How can we achieve that kind of consistency? It has nothing to do with replacing Heupel and everything to do with winning consistently enough to be a contender for CFP on a yearly basis.

The B1G is not the SEC.
It’s really that simple.
And we were a contender till the OU game in a year Vegas had us 7-5. That can’t be said often enough

If I have to hire for an opening this year in the SEC, I’m calling the guy from Vandy.

 

[kcvols1]

My opinion, which I feel that is easy to dissipate, is that I want Banks to stay. I think our lack of depth at DB was under realized until we saw how far off we feel without McCoy and Gibson we have been reduced to always playing 6-10 yards off because of the lack of trust. It reminds me of the screens with Milton. I think he if can get us back to what we were or close to it, even once, from Fraz’s sophomore year on we can win a National Championship.

I’d like to see us bring in some fired HC’s as analysts similar to what Saban used to do. Pittman is a good example of someone I’d like to have around the program.

Hell let’s pull a Saban and bring on Brian Kelly and let him fetch our towels. He’s the kinda cornball we can all get a good laugh at.

This is a phenomenal take

Straight boss moves.

 

[West Vol]

The B1G is not the SEC.
It’s really that simple.
And we were a contender till the OU game in a year Vegas had us 7-5. That can’t be said often enough

If I have to hire for an opening this year in the SEC, I’m calling the guy from Vandy.

We’ve beaten one team over .500 and they are 5-4. I’m not sure we get to crap on the schedules of other teams when we have yet to beat a good team.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The B1G is not the SEC.
It’s really that simple.
And we were a contender till the OU game in a year Vegas had us 7-5. That can’t be said often enough

If I have to hire for an opening this year in the SEC, I’m calling the guy from Vandy.

Only fools are suggesting replacing Heupel. He's under contract until 2030 and my suggestion would be not to extend him until we maintain consistency as a contender for the CFP. Fire him? No way at this point. Never.

I'm not arguing that the SEC isn't harder than the B1G but I AM arguing that we're not fielding teams that ACTUALLY make it to the playoffs consistently nor do we appear headed in that direction.

Vegas had SEVERAL teams slotted about 7-5 for the playoffs last week and next week who won't get in. Vegas odds don't get you in. Winning consistently against your competition gets you in. We didn't...... and that's what matters.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Only fools are suggesting replacing Heupel. He's under contract until 2030 and my suggestion would be not to extend him until we maintain consistency as a contender for the CFP. Fire him? No way at this point. Never.

I'm not arguing that the SEC isn't harder than the B1G but I AM arguing that we're not fielding teams that ACTUALLY make it to the playoffs consistently nor do we appear headed in that direction.

Vegas had SEVERAL teams slotted about 7-5 for the playoffs last week and next week who won't get in. Vegas odds don't get you in. Winning consistently against your competition gets you in. We didn't...... and that's what matters.

Uuuuhhhhh
Vegas odds at the beginning of the season establishes realistic expectations of the team for the year.

And too that, your expectations may be to make the playoffs every year or else but I promise you that is not the expectation of the university. Making it every 3rd year while still being in the conversation with 3-4 weeks to go the other 2….like this year, keeps CJH here as long as he wants.

You may not like it, I may not like it, but that’s reality.

 

[West Vol]

Uuuuhhhhh
Vegas odds at the beginning of the season establishes realistic expectations of the team for the year.

And too that, your expectations may be to make the playoffs every year or else but I promise you that is not the expectation of the university. Making it every 3rd year while still being in the conversation with 3-4 weeks to go the other 2….like this year, keeps CJH here as long as he wants.

You may not like it, I may not like it, but that’s reality.

You are drastically overestimating the importance placed on mid season record. He finishes 7-5 and nobody cares that we were a possible playoff contender in October.

 

[toeflood]

My opinion, which I feel that is easy to dissipate, is that I want Banks to stay. I think our lack of depth at DB was under realized until we saw how far off we feel without McCoy and Gibson we have been reduced to always playing 6-10 yards off because of the lack of trust. It reminds me of the screens with Milton. I think he if can get us back to what we were or close to it, even once, from Fraz’s sophomore year on we can win a National Championship.

I’d like to see us bring in some fired HC’s as analysts similar to what Saban used to do. Pittman is a good example of someone I’d like to have around the program.

Hell let’s pull a Saban and bring on Brian Kelly and let him fetch our towels. He’s the kinda cornball we can all get a good laugh at.

Banks has to go. I've never seen a defense give up more 3rd and longs. This past Saturday, we gave up a 3rd and 16 on a qb scramble. That can't happen. His players are constantly out of position. His DBs don't look for the ball. His tacklers looks like they've never been coached to tackle in open space. This isn't a 1 year thing. We ran the ball last year and it helped mask a lot of the defense's problems. Any Defensive coordinator who lines his dbs up 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 5 is not up to par for me. It's that simple.

 

[BigOrangeCrush32]

Here are some things we should all agree on, but clearly won't:

1. Josh Heupel is ultra competitive. It is an intrinsic part of his nature.
2. Because of this, he does not need external motivation. He doesn't need fans or boosters yelling at him. He doesn't need the AD calling him in for chats. There is not a single lackadaisical or complacent bone in his body. He already has all the motivation he will ever need, driven by his own character.
3. He has loyalty to his coaches and players (thank goodness), but not to a fault. If someone is weighing the program down, keeping him from his goals, he will replace them. He's just not gonna do it based on your 'fahr Willie' posts in vn.com. And he will probably usually do it quietly, in a supportive way; it will usually look like a voluntary departure to us on the outside.
4. Finally, he is hella smarter than you and me about college football. About coaching skill sets. About building and maintaining a staff and player rosters. You only think you kinda sorta know what's going on. He really does know.
5. Put it all together: he has the will, and the skill, to do his job at a championship caliber. Given the conditions he came in under, he needed some time to ramp up. He has now had that time. We can start expecting big things. Every year (starting this season, it was included), we should expect the floor to be 8-4 and the ceiling 12-0. That doesn't mean he'll get the 11-1 or 12-0 result every year; the sport is far too competitive for that. But he COULD get us there any given year.
6. So how about we just have some damn patience?

Anyway, no, we're not all going to agree here. About anything. But those six points ought to be among the places where we should.

Go Vols!

3. He has loyalty to his coaches and players (thank goodness), but not to a fault. If someone is weighing the program down, keeping him from his goals, he will replace them. He's just not gonna do it based on your 'fahr Willie' posts in vn.com. And he will probably usually do it quietly, in a supportive way; it will usually look like a voluntary departure to us on the outside.

a. so you have watched this team for the last 5 years and are glad he is loyal to the DB coach and the DC coach? They have been horrendous 4 out of 5 years. This alone causes most of us to doubt CJH to a point. It is fine he was "Loyal" for the first 5 years but that "loyalty" needs to stop after this season and begin again with a new DB coach and definitely a new DC.

4. Finally, he is hella smarter than you and me about college football. About coaching skill sets. About building and maintaining a staff and player rosters. You only think you kinda sorta know what's going on. He really does know.

a. that may be true, but he is still lacking in time management and understanding the rules that have been newly implemented. That was embarrassing in the OU game.

5. Put it all together: he has the will, and the skill, to do his job at a championship caliber. Given the conditions he came in under, he needed some time to ramp up. He has now had that time. We can start expecting big things. Every year (starting this season, it was included), we should expect the floor to be 8-4 and the ceiling 12-0. That doesn't mean he'll get the 11-1 or 12-0 result every year; the sport is far too competitive for that. But he COULD get us there any given year.

a. saying the floor should be 8-4 is a horrible take. that means losing to our biggest rivals every year and we are supposed to be ok with that? the floor should be 2 losses with the talent he has. We should be at least in the conversation for SEC Championship every year from here on out, including last year and this year but we were nowhere close. I am not saying fire him, but his grace
period is over.

 

[kcvols1]

Banks has to go. I've never seen a defense give up more 3rd and longs. This past Saturday, we gave up a 3rd and 16 on a qb scramble. That can't happen. His players are constantly out of position. His DBs don't look for the ball. His tacklers looks like they've never been coached to tackle in open space. This isn't a 1 year thing. We ran the ball last year and it helped mask a lot of the defense's problems. Any Defensive coordinator who lines his dbs up 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 5 is not up to par for me. It's that simple.

John Chavis sez hey.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Uuuuhhhhh
Vegas odds at the beginning of the season establishes realistic expectations of the team for the year.

And too that, your expectations may be to make the playoffs every year or else but I promise you that is not the expectation of the university. Making it every 3rd year while still being in the conversation with 3-4 weeks to go the other 2….like this year, keeps CJH here as long as he wants.

You may not like it, I may not like it, but that’s reality.

I could be fine with that if the University is okay with it because that would mean quality football which is what I like to watch but as a business I think you'd face revenue stagnation if we were a floor 8 or 9 win team that rises to the CFP every 3 or 4 years. I don't think Danny White would like that.

The talent level required to meet that in the SEC is pretty brutal. Keeping that talent level with the portal and NIL is beyond brutal. We're currently just below the top tier in SEC recruiting, I think, and that next step is a killer.

Whether we can use the portal and recruiting and development to take that next step with Heupel is the determining factor for me for Heupel's long-term prospects.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I could be fine with that if the University is okay with it because that would mean quality football which is what I like to watch but as a business I think you'd face revenue stagnation if we were a floor 8 or 9 win team that rises to the CFP every 3 or 4 years. I don't think Danny White would like that.

The talent level required to meet that in the SEC is pretty brutal. Keeping that talent level with the portal and NIL is beyond brutal. We're currently just below the top tier in SEC recruiting, I think, and that next step is a killer.

Whether we can use the portal and recruiting and development to take that next step with Heupel is the determining factor for me for Heupel's long-term prospects.

Just getting to the description I gave is brutal. Especially with the challenges you have listed. The likelihood of stepping up is tiny in comparison to the chances of returning to the bottom. The university is aware of that as well.
I’m as disappointed as anyone but what separates me is I’m aware of what my university is going to do.
And it has nothing to do with what you and I want them to do.

The best way I can say it is we really need championships. The university would like to have them but not at the risk of losing big.

 

[Rocky Top T]

Get Sam Pittman as OL coach and a new DC would be a good start

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Just getting to the description I gave is brutal. Especially with the challenges you have listed. The likelihood of stepping up is tiny in comparison to the chances of returning to the bottom. The university is aware of that as well.
I’m as disappointed as anyone but what separates me is I’m aware of what my university is going to do.
And it has nothing to do with what you and I want them to do.

The best way I can say it is we really need championships. The university would like to have them but not at the risk of losing big.

That's probably the professional view of Danny White. The road to the bottom is paved with lots of coaching changes. We can agree there. I don't like the reality of it but you're right.

I've honestly not been terribly disappointed this season. That Joey A interception at Bama was hard to watch but overall he's done well and better than I expected. It's been a fun season to watch the Vols and I think the FL and Vandy games will be good football to watch.

 

[Volinnooga]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying expectations occur because we all look at who is above us and wonder how to get there.

Cignetti got there from a dumpster, perhaps it wasn't on fire like our dumpster, but a dumpster. He got there in year 1 and will get there in year 2 and many expect his success will continue or he'll get poached away by a more resourceful (though thank you Mark Cuban, I think it is) program.

I'm not pimping the B1G at all and it isn't easy to win in the SEC BECAUSE teams have expectations and, as we've seen, coaches get canned when they don't meet them in the SEC.

I'm not calling for Josh Heupel's head but I am saying we can expect to see success and we have AND expect that success to be consistent and continue.

Do you think Cignetti would be undefeated at this point if Indiana were in the SEC?

 

[Orangeslice13]

That's probably the professional view of Danny White. The road to the bottom is paved with lots of coaching changes. We can agree there. I don't like the reality of it but you're right.

I've honestly not been terribly disappointed this season. That Joey A interception at Bama was hard to watch but overall he's done well and better than I expected. It's been a fun season to watch the Vols and I think the FL and Vandy games will be good football to watch.

We are literally 3 plays from 1 loss and the possibility of a very tight game with Bama from a dumpster fire in may.
Sometimes your 3 plays turn into a 98. Or here we are.