For those still on the fence about Jones....

#276
#276
VKAman said:
Now refer to my previous post, and replace the first quote with, "Suppose someone said, 'Butch knew Dobbs would make us more likely to beat Florida, but elected to keep him on the sidelines anyway.' To which I would say, 'That's a really dumb idea, because any given coach is going to do whatever it takes to beat Florida in that situation. It's more likely that Butch thought Dobbs wasn't ready to outplay Worley at that point.'" Am I criticizing Butch? Am I saying I should be the coach? Not if you have reading comprehension
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By "sacrifice" you're using the word we use to convey WILLINGLY/KNOWINGLY GIVE UP. " Give up what? A win of course. If he thought that "Dobbs wasn't ready to outplay Worley" then your characterization of him "knowing that Dobbs was better" doesn't jibe. You and the other Dobbs conspiracy theorists have a common flaw in your argument. There is no way of "knowing" something that DIDN'T HAPPEN. Dobbs delivered when he did. Could he have sooner? We'll never KNOW. Tired argument is tired. :loco:
 
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#277
#277
Brave Volunteer said:
He's done just about everything right except put the wins in the win column and ultimately that's ALL that matters. That is what he and every head coach will be judged on. I'm not going to be "full Butch" until he shows us evidence of getting it done on the field. Starting this year, 8-9 wins should be the absolute floor for this program and we HAVE to start seeing some signature wins against teams that have been kicking our ass for far too long! Until I see this, I'm not full anything.
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Great post. 1000%
 
#278
#278
volfanbill said:
he has to go .500 minimum against OU, Florida, UGA, Arkansas, Bama and Mizzou. I'll even grant a bad loss if he goes 4-2 against those teams.
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Don't know if the team is there yet, but they need to win at least half of the games against ranked teams, then have a good year and go on a real roll.
 
#279
#279
champyvol said:
yep throw away a season to redshirt dobbs. that is the reason I still have questions about jones. everybody knew who was the better qb. putting a below average qb out there to lose games I have a problem with. no matter how you look at it , makes very little sense to me.
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Well, everyone who counted "knew" who the better QB was... his name was Justin Worley.

You can argue that with the OL being as bad as it was that he wasn't the best match for them. But Worley threw the ball MUCH better than Dobbs. Not just a little but MILES apart. He made better reads and throwing decisions. When given just a little time, he was good.

That's what they wanted Dobbs to learn by RSing. He was the 2nd best option, not the first.

FTR, a healthy Worley probably beats the same teams down the stretch that Dobbs beat and possibly MU as well. He would have done it differently... but I believe the W's would have been the same if not better.
 
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#280
#280
Everyone wants the wins on the field. Will they come? We shall see, but I think we have a better chance NOW than we've had in a long time. Butch has energized this program to an extent that I wasn't sure could ever happen again. The pride is back. The wins will follow.
 
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#281
#281
ReaderVol said:
When was that? I don't remember fans or the media clamoring for Dobbs. Again, revisionist history.
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After watching the 2014 orange and white game, many including myself firmly believed that Dobbs and Worley stood out as the two best quarterbacks on the roster, well ahead of both Ferguson and Peterman. Again, I am not arguing about whether Butch should have started Dobbs over Worley. I understand his decision to start a Senior leader at QB. My beef is with why he ever had Nathan Peterman ahead of Dobbs on the depth chart. Nothing I have ever seen on the field in the 2013 regular season or the 2014 Spring game seems to have justified that decision.
 
#282
#282
bhouston79 said:
After watching the 2014 orange and white game, many including myself firmly believed that Dobbs and Worley stood out as the two best quarterbacks on the roster, well ahead of both Ferguson and Peterman. Again, I am not arguing about whether Butch should have started Dobbs over Worley. I understand his decision to start a Senior leader at QB. My beef is with why he ever had Nathan Peterman ahead of Dobbs on the depth chart. Nothing I have ever seen on the field in the 2013 regular season or the 2014 Spring game seems to have justified that decision.
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Define "many"...didn't seem like the MANY from Webster's. Overwhelming sentiment that I read was for Worley or NONE OF THE ABOVE. (Only one poster wanted Peterman :wink2:) Lot of "why can't Butch recruit QBs?" sprinkled in for flavor. :). Also remember Summerhill and Pickett balling out in that Spring game and Malone made the HOF. :thumbsup:
 
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#283
#283
bhouston79 said:
After watching the 2014 orange and white game, many including myself firmly believed that Dobbs and Worley stood out as the two best quarterbacks on the roster, well ahead of both Ferguson and Peterman. Again, I am not arguing about whether Butch should have started Dobbs over Worley. I understand his decision to start a Senior leader at QB. My beef is with why he ever had Nathan Peterman ahead of Dobbs on the depth chart. Nothing I have ever seen on the field in the 2013 regular season or the 2014 Spring game seems to have justified that decision.
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But it doesn't change anything.
Most of the season was over. If Peterman would have been even serviceable, which he definitely appeared to be in practice, Dobbs is eligible another entire year.

Had it been Dobbs v Peterman to start in the beginning of the season, it's worth arguing about. Not after 3/4 of the season is over. Peterman started for 1 lousy quarter, then the adjustment was made. That means nothing.
 
#284
#284
volfanbill said:
he has to go .500 minimum against OU, Florida, UGA, Arkansas, Bama and Mizzou. I'll even grant a bad loss if he goes 4-2 against those teams.
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Will another loss to the Gators this year be an indication that Jones just cant coach?
 
#285
#285
butchna said:
By "sacrifice" you're using the word we use to convey WILLINGLY/KNOWINGLY GIVE UP. " Give up what? A win of course. If he thought that "Dobbs wasn't ready to outplay Worley" then your characterization of him "knowing that Dobbs was better" doesn't jibe. You and the other Dobbs conspiracy theorists have a common flaw in your argument. There is no way of "knowing" something that DIDN'T HAPPEN. Dobbs delivered when he did. Could he have sooner? We'll never KNOW. Tired argument is tired. :loco:
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1. I'm not saying he sacrificed a win. I'm saying that, if he thought according to the ridiculous hypothetical that I'm saying is stupid, and knew that Dobbs would give us a better chance against UF but opted not to use him anyway, that would be essentially sacrificing a win. He wouldn't be trying his hardest to win the game at hand. I'm saying that's dumb, because no coach thinks like that and Butch wants to win every game. Saying he doesn't is insulting to him, if anything.

2. Because that's a ridiculous scenario, I'm saying the more likely one is that he thought Worley gave him a better chance to beat Florida than Dobbs did. He didn't use Dobbs because he wanted to win, and didn't think Dobbs was better (yet).

We're not even disagreeing, but you're attributing opinions to me that are the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Again, reading comprehension is your friend.
 
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#286
#286
I'm not saying Dobbs should have started from Day 1. We're not even discussing that. I'm saying the reason he was on the bench is because Butch thought Worley was better, not because Butch was like, "Yeah, Dobbs is our best QB right now, but I just don't feel like using him." That would be stupid, and I don't think he's stupid.
 
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#288
#288
I have never been on the fence with Butch. I was with his hire from the get. Now if we lose to UF again this year and go 7-5 I will get on that fence but I don't expect that to happen.
 
#290
#290
VKAman said:
Coaches are trying to win games, not hold out their best players. It's not hard to understand.
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Worley won that competition in camp. It is that simple. It is not like Dobbs set camp on fire and Butch held him out. It is well documented in the press that Worley played better. Which isn't surprising, because Worley was a senior.

So stop implying that Butch played an inferior Worley to a great Dobbs. It simply isn't true.

Geez, the passing game has even struggled early in this camp under Dobbs.
 
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#293
#293
bhouston79 said:
After watching the 2014 orange and white game, many including myself firmly believed that Dobbs and Worley stood out as the two best quarterbacks on the roster, well ahead of both Ferguson and Peterman. Again, I am not arguing about whether Butch should have started Dobbs over Worley. I understand his decision to start a Senior leader at QB. My beef is with why he ever had Nathan Peterman ahead of Dobbs on the depth chart. Nothing I have ever seen on the field in the 2013 regular season or the 2014 Spring game seems to have justified that decision.
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You remember a lot different than the rest of us.
 
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#294
#294
I didnt understand the decision to bring Peterman in for two series against Bama and then pull him if he was truly 2nd on the depth chart. Wth was the point in that? Definitely a head scratcher.
 
#295
#295
checkerboards09 said:
I didnt understand the decision to bring Peterman in for two series against Bama and then pull him if he was truly 2nd on the depth chart. Wth was the point in that? Definitely a head scratcher.
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For me, Peterman was not performing like he had in practice. "Stage fright" might be one way to put it but it become obvious that, no matter what you call it, it was not going to pass.
 
#297
#297
checkerboards09 said:
I didnt understand the decision to bring Peterman in for two series against Bama and then pull him if he was truly 2nd on the depth chart. Wth was the point in that? Definitely a head scratcher.
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I think Butch knew he was going to have to go with Dobbs. May be wrong, but I'm not sure they had the official official on Worley yet. If the remote possibility that the light comes on for Peterman, maybe it works out if they get Worley back. Otherwise it was probably because the pressure would be less on Dobbs. Your first action of the year is a start AGAINST ALABAMA? Little daunting...it worked out. We didn't "sacrifice" a game against Bama. :)
 
#300
#300
butchna said:
I think Butch knew he was going to have to go with Dobbs. May be wrong, but I'm not sure they had the official official on Worley yet. If the remote possibility that the light comes on for Peterman, maybe it works out if they get Worley back. Otherwise it was probably because the pressure would be less on Dobbs. Your first action of the year is a start AGAINST ALABAMA? Little daunting...it worked out. We didn't "sacrifice" a game against Bama. :)
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Dobbs came out and made Bama look foolish from the start. I'm predicting a much closer game this year. 6-10 points is my guess.
 
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