Flag stomping?!

#51
#51
American citizens stomping the American flag are despicable.

But, do we punish those who disrespect the flag? What counts as distespect? Burning and stomping for sure, but what else?

The socially conservative part of me believes we have to protect our sacred traditions and symbols to have some semblance of honor and dignity. But does that come at the expense of some freedom of speech?
 
#52
#52
Quick question for those that know:

All these folks running around dressed up like Soldiers and Marines; is that not illegal? Or is it covered by free speech?
 
#53
#53
JoeKyleVol said:
American citizens stomping the American flag are despicable.

But, do we punish those who disrespect the flag? What counts as distespect? Burning and stomping for sure, but what else?

The socially conservative part of me believes we have to protect our sacred traditions and symbols to have some semblance of honor and dignity. But does that come at the expense of some freedom of speech?
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By military protocol:

Other Things Not to Do with the Flag:

use it as wearing apparel, bedding or drapery. It should not be used on a costume or athletic uniform.

use the flag for advertising or promotion purposes or print it on paper napkins, boxes or anything else intended for temporary use and discard.
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Technically, the US flag is routinely disrespected on July 4th, etc.
 
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#54
#54
Obsessed said:
Quick question for those that know:

All these folks running around dressed up like Soldiers and Marines; is that not illegal? Or is it covered by free speech?
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Are you asking about the Stolen Valor Act where folks were wearing awards they didn't receive? It was struck down a while back on the grounds it was free speech.

Which I didn't necessarily agree with. However, individuals have taken up that cause and made life...difficult for those that attempt to portray what they aren't.

ETA: I see it was revised in 2013.

Stolen Valor Act of 2013 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With more specific wording about "with intent to obtain money, property, or other tangible benefit."
 
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#55
#55
Grand Vol said:
Are you asking about the Stolen Valor Act where folks were wearing awards they didn't receive? It was struck down a while back on the grounds it was free speech.

Which I didn't necessarily agree with. However, individuals have taken up that cause and made life...difficult for those that attempt to portray what they aren't.
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That may be it. I've seen several videos of real Soldiers and Marines confronting these folks.
 
#57
#57
I haven't decided what's a bigger waste of time, stomping on a flag or caring if someone else does.
 
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#60
#60
Obsessed said:
Quick question for those that know:

All these folks running around dressed up like Soldiers and Marines; is that not illegal? Or is it covered by free speech?
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There is a very fine line between "just wearing clothing to look like a Marine" and "impersonating a Marine". Same with any other service branch, obviously, but I doubt anyone tries to impersonate Coast Guard. Almost all SV videos I've seen are soldiers and Marines.

I'm personally of the opinion that people can dress up and play make believe all they want. I personally don't care. I only get beef if/when that person is roaming around a shopping mall picking up girls and getting discounts while wearing USMC Dress Blues and falsifying awards.

There is a law passed in 2013 that makes it illegal... but that will also likely get struck down due to FoS infringement.

Regardless, check out "Stolen Valor" videos online. They're some high-end justice porn. I've personally run into a couple people I was highly suspicious of and only said something to one of them... who was picking up a girl. Wish I filmed it, it was pretty amusing.
 
#61
#61
agent|orange said:
Regardless, check out "Stolen Valor" videos online. They're some high-end justice porn. I've personally run into a couple people I was highly suspicious of and only said something to one of them... who was picking up a girl. Wish I filmed it, it was pretty amusing.
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VeriSEAL and Fakewarriors.org (part of the POW Network) are some good groups that bust out posers.
 
#62
#62
agent|orange said:
There is a law passed in 2013 that makes it illegal... but that will also likely get struck down due to FoS infringement.
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The original law was struck down since it cast a wide net over any decoration that wasn't earned.

The 2013 revision has far more narrow parameters and requires the individual to use the unauthorized award for personal gain. I think that one will likely stand since it goes beyond a 1st Amendment issue to a person attempting fraud.
 
#63
#63
Grand Vol said:
The original law was struck down since it cast a wide net over any decoration that wasn't earned.

The 2013 revision has far more narrow parameters and requires the individual to use the unauthorized award for personal gain. I think that one will likely stand since it goes beyond a 1st Amendment issue to a person attempting fraud.
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True, I can still see even the revision being contested and further limited.

I can see the wording being further restricted down to "financial or monetary gain" as "tangible benefit" could be cutting in line or something.
 
#64
#64
agent|orange said:
True, I can still see even the revision being contested and further limited.

I do think that if a kid wants to wear his older brother's PH and CAR around as tribute, he should be able to. Or wear your fathers decorations on Memorial Day, etc etc etc.

I can see the wording being further restricted down to "financial or monetary gain" as "tangible benefit" could be cutting in line or something.
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Wearing it in honor of a family member is one thing. But I agree the "tangible benefit" probably could be clarified more.

Cool story bro. In Colorado a dude came walking into a bar I used to frequent talking all sorts of smack about being a Green Beret and "being in the ****." Yet somehow managed to miss the Special Forces Association flag on the wall as a clear indicator he's not in the right spot to promote such a tale. And quickly had the owner (retired Vietnam era SF), the Vice President of the local SF Association Chapter, another retired Vietnam era 5th Group member and four current 10th Group members putting him on full blast.

To say he left quickly with his head hung low was an understatement.
 
#65
#65
Grand Vol said:
Wearing it in honor of a family member is one thing. But I agree the "tangible benefit" probably could be clarified more.

Cool story bro. In Colorado a dude came walking into a bar I used to frequent talking all sorts of smack about being a Green Beret and "being in the ****." Yet somehow managed to miss the Special Forces Association flag on the wall as a clear indicator he's not in the right spot to promote such a tale. And quickly had the owner (retired Vietnam era SF), the Vice President of the local SF Association Chapter, another retired Vietnam era 5th Group member and four current 10th Group members putting him on full blast.

To say he left quickly with his head hung low was an understatement.
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The kid I came across was wearing Dress Blues (ill fitting) and had US Army decorations on the wrong breast pocket. Not to mention he had blood stripes (signifying he is an NCO) even though he had LCPL rank insignia (not an NCO) on. His shoes were at least black, but they looked like the cheapo black shoes you get at Wal-Mart. I guess he busted his budget on the 2nd-hand blouse and pants.

So I asked him where he served and he just talked himself right into it. He apparently pumped out from Pendleton with the 24th MEU and stopped in Thailand on his way to Iraq for 1.5 years.

It was just such a hodgepodge. It's like he did some research and just cherry picked details he liked and morphed them. I'll give him credit, he was shooting for the stars with the girl he was macking on.
 
#67
#67
Grand Vol said:
I like Ob and have this feeling he's not going to load up his rifle and start plinking on a few flag walkers just because he felt insulted.

But please, continue using terms like "liar" that tries to inflame the situation. You aren't smart enough to provoke me using terms like that.
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Yeah....I remember the good ole days where u could kick someone's a$$ and it not being considered a big deal.
 
#68
#68
volbeast33 said:
Yeah....I remember the good ole days where u could kick someone's a$$ and it not being considered a big deal.
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Yeah, the good old days when wives couldn't divorce you, you could own slaves, and a commanding officer could sleep with a man's wife on the first night of marriage.
 
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#69
#69
I didn't realize there were so many "conservatives" here who hated free speech.

Also, lots of hypothetical fistfighters with obvious microphallic projection issues.
 
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#73
#73
AirVol said:
I'm sorry, I had no idea Mohammed stood for freedom. There's a difference between The Flag and a religious icon.
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If we ban flag stomping then everyone has to shut up about how terrible the POTUS is.

See where this stupid choo-choo train of logic goes?
 
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