Dump Bama

[rjd970]

Bama will not run to 30 on their win streak against us. I'm basing it on faith and probability.

Faith and probability?

With the playoffs, transfer portal, conference re-alignments - the days of cycling are over. The top money makers are dug in and the conference head office is right across the street from the Alabama sports hall of fame. Things aren't changing. Maybe it won't be 30 years in a row, maybe it will. Even if we go 1-29 over a thirty year span, or hell, even 5-25 (which is dreaming, lets be honest) it isn't worth it for traditions sake or because "we need to get better".

 

[DuckInAPen]

Everything cycles in CFB. As offensive as it is to traditionalists, there comes a time when traditions have to give way to progress. We have reached that point.

I've read your posts here for a long time, sjt18, and I have great respect for you as a poster. You write thoughtfully, analytically, and politely. Please don't take what follows as a personal attack, as it's certainly not meant to be.

If I recall what you've written in this forum -- and please do correct me if I'm mistaken -- you're neither an alumnus nor a Tennessean, nor did you grow up in SEC country, nor do you live now within the traditional territory of the SEC.

If all this is true, you're no less of a fan because of it (and, in fact, I admire all the more the fact that you've stuck with the Vols over these dismal thirteen years). I will submit, however, that your experience may not be sufficient for you to appreciate the significance (to the extent that anything in sports can ultimately be regarded as significant) of the Third Saturday in October to both universities.

 

[Starchief13VFL]

Tuscaloosa News just announced that we are the Homecoming Game this year

 

[sjt18]

I've read your posts here for a long time, sjt18, and I have great respect for you as a poster. You write thoughtfully, analytically, and politely. Please don't take what follows as a personal attack, as it's certainly not meant to be.

If I recall what you've written in this forum -- and please do correct me if I'm mistaken -- you're neither an alumnus nor a Tennessean, nor did you grow up in SEC country, nor do you live now within the traditional territory of the SEC.

Actually I did grow up a strong fan of the SEC generally. I specifically became a UT fan when Heath Shuler signed with the Vols. My HS coach coached Jimmy Streater. I played against his brother who ended up at UNC. My brother played against and became friends with Carl Pickens.

My history goes back long enough to understand the rivalries of the SEC to include UT-Bama. Even when UT is good, Bama's most meaningful rival is Auburn. There is very little left of what made it a rivalry.

If all this is true, you're no less of a fan because of it (and, in fact, I admire all the more the fact that you've stuck with the Vols over these dismal thirteen years). I will submit, however, that your experience may not be sufficient for you to appreciate the significance (to the extent that anything in sports can ultimately be regarded as significant) of the Third Saturday in October to both universities.

I question whether it continues to mean all that much to Bama. They count it as an automatic win. But that isn't the point. All traditions end eventually. They have their time but they aren't eternal. TAM's move to the SEC broke a long tradition of playing Texas because it no longer made sense for the future of TAM to stay in the Big 12 or continue their annual game with Texas. I think it has come to that point for UT-Bama and the SEC more generally.

 

[DuckInAPen]

Thanks for your reply, sjt18. Your connection to Volunteer legends certainly far surpasses mine (I watched Schuler and Pickens on television or from the nosebleed section of Neyland, and Streater was before my time). You've also got me beat in the area of experience playing organized football (Chucky Mullins's untimely demise ended any hope I had of being allowed to play high school football, and so I don't have nearly the understanding of the game that I'd like to have).

I still think you're missing something important about the rivalry, though. I grew up in Alabama (I was the weird kid who wore orange to school on Alabama-Auburn Day). Wherever they may rank us vis-a-vis Auburn, committed Bama fans will never grow tired of beating the Vols (just as we "traditionalists" have never grown tired of beating Vandy or the Wildcats and would object to the elimination of those rivalry games as well). There's also the important consideration that, as rivalries between universities, they are not limited to football, but extend to other sports as well -- when we lose in one sport, we may well avenge ourselves in another.

For my part, I would hate for UT to be in the position of an A&M or an Arkansas, cut off as they are (or, at least, have been) from their traditional rivalries.

 

[901 Orange]

UT was only down by half a game coming out of the Bama game, and they had their easiest teams left to play. There aren't any logical gymnastics that will make Bama the reason UT lost the East in 2016.

Coming out of the Bama game which was week 7 we had 2 divison losses. Fla's only loss at that point was to us. By the time Fla lost their 2nd divison game we had already lost our 3rd.

 

[bamawriter]

Coming out of the Bama game which was week 7 we had 2 divison losses. Fla's only loss at that point was to us. By the time Fla lost their 2nd divison game we had already lost our 3rd.

Exactly. Even if Tennessee had knocked off Bama, they still would have lost the division by a game.

 

[RhodesVol]

Well if what you say comes to pass (and I feel you are right) we will be back to nearly the old time SEC and SWC. If this happens will the conference have an identity? I feel the press and fans will see this alignment as two different conferences because there will not be enough games in football to build cross division rivalries. To me, it will be like things are now. Like every now and then we play a team from another top conference. I could see teams not playing each other more than once every 8-10 years. Now in other sports where many games can be played, this may not be too bad a situation.

I think the above is exactly why the conference won't continue to be split into an East and West, but will instead be parceled up into four-four team quadrants.

It only make sense when you want to discuss playing the entirety of the conference, and would provide an option for a player to play every school in conference over a four year span.

UT will continue to get the short end, I'm sure (as the most common pod for us is Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee and Vanderbilt), but we will get to see more teams from the former West. Yay...

 

[901 Orange]

Exactly. Even if Tennessee had knocked off Bama, they still would have lost the division by a game.

Get the technicalities with SC & Vandy. In my opinion we dont lose either of those games if we beat Bama. A&M got the ball rolling but we battled to the very end. Bama destroyed us. To me the way Bama beat us down, killed the rest of the season.

 

[VOLnMiami]

I strongly doubt it. They’ve turned into a full blown dynasty they’ll spend whatever it takes to get a worthy successor, and they’ll continue to buy the best players money can get.

They said that when the Bear died too but alas they went through several coaches before finding the right one.

 

[RhodesVol]

Alabama has a 35-15 win-loss record against us in the last 50 years. During that time frame we have had our longest win streak against them in the 100+ years of the rivalry, at 7 games. Unfortunately, also during that time, they have rattled off a 7 game streak, a 10 game streak, and now the current 14 game streak.

People like to say the rivalry is streaky, and that may be true, but it's heavily weighted in their favor in the era of modern college football.

Keep the game, get rid of the game, I really don't care either way. Tennessee has to get its house in order, I agree.

However, the perception that you are incapable of beating your biggest rival does not elevate your program.

 

[bamawriter]

Get the technicalities with SC & Vandy. In my opinion we dont lose either of those games if we beat Bama. A&M got the ball rolling but we battled to the very end. Bama destroyed us. To me the way Bama beat us down, killed the rest of the season.

I suppose there's an argument to be made there. But I don't get why that loss should have tanked everything else. The year before UT was pretty much out of it after losing to Florida and Arkansas, but they rebounded to beat UGA and played their best game against Bama during the current streak. They didn't lose again, winning all the games they should have won.

I guess I don't understand why they played great with nothing to play for and played lousy with everything on the line.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I am not in favor of dumping bama every year because I dont want to play them, but because if you expand to 16 teams you need to dump the whole idea of annual rivalry games. You shouldnt have a scenario where Auburn forces the issue of playing both Bama and UGA every season. Just like you dont have to have Bama/UT or UF/UT or UT/Vandy every year.

Break that whole thing up.

 

[rjd970]

I suppose there's an argument to be made there. But I don't get why that loss should have tanked everything else. The year before UT was pretty much out of it after losing to Florida and Arkansas, but they rebounded to beat UGA and played their best game against Bama during the current streak. They didn't lose again, winning all the games they should have won.

I guess I don't understand why they played great with nothing to play for and played lousy with everything on the line.

There is a former intern at Alabama that had a lot to do with it.

You are probably right that it wouldn't have mattered in the end, but with a normal, competent coach...who knows what beating Bama for the first time in forever would have done to the morale of the team.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Y'all can go dump yourselves. This is the dummest chit I have ever heard.

 

[bamawriter]

There is a former intern at Alabama that had a lot to do with it.

You are probably right that it wouldn't have mattered in the end, but with a normal, competent coach...who knows what beating Bama for the first time in forever would have done to the morale of the team.

Are you talking about in 2016?

 

[DuckInAPen]

Get the technicalities with SC & Vandy. In my opinion we dont lose either of those games if we beat Bama. A&M got the ball rolling but we battled to the very end. Bama destroyed us. To me the way Bama beat us down, killed the rest of the season.

We didn't let up after losing to Alabama in '89. Auburn beat them and we took a share of the SEC crown.

We didn't let up after losing to Florida in '97. LSU and Georgia beat them, and we went on to win the SEC outright.

A championship-caliber team wouldn't have folded after the Bama game in '16 (it seems some internal discord got in their way, but I suppose we'll never know the full story).

 

[Devo182]

Keeping tradition does not win games, large amounts of money, better recruits and better coaches does....

Gotta play the best or else we're weak pansies.

Might go 0-12 while playing the best, but at least we can puff our chests like animals. I mean, you just know Clemson is ashamed of their championships.

 

[Remy]

Nick Saban will eventually give it up, he is 69 years old. Many of you guys don’t remember how many times it took for bama to get the right guy as head coach before they hired Saban. When Saban retires they will return to being very beatable.

I agree with this. The state of Alabama does not have the population itself to produce a ton of football talent internally. They don't even have the population of Tennessee. What they do have is Saban and he's a great coach and recruiter. HE has a national brand that Bama has glommed onto and has ridden to success. Once he's gone, there's no putting that toothpaste back in the tube. Recall Ray Perkins was going to be their savior after Bear? Didn't happen. How about Bill Curry? Didn't happen. Others? They didn't happen either UNTIL Saban. There's nothing special about Bama football other than Nic Saban.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

We need to worry about improving our team and get good enough where UK isn't waxing us by 27 at home...

The 2 main reasons why that happened are no longer an issue. That game was lost in 2 plays. Lets not pretend that this was a regular occurrence. We still beat their ass when they had their best team in a generation.

 

[bamawriter]

I agree with this. The state of Alabama does not have the population itself to produce a ton of football talent internally. They don't even have the population of Tennessee. What they do have is Saban and he's a great coach and recruiter. HE has a national brand that Bama has glommed onto and has ridden to success. Once he's gone, there's no putting that toothpaste back in the tube. Recall Ray Perkins was going to be their savior after Bear? Didn't happen. How about Bill Curry? Didn't happen. Others? They didn't happen either UNTIL Saban. There's nothing special about Bama football other than Nic Saban.

Gene Stallings won a national championship.

 

[DuckInAPen]

Gotta play the best or else we're weak pansies.

Might go 0-12 while playing the best, but at least we can puff our chests like animals. I mean, you just know Clemson is ashamed of their championships.

Which of their traditional rivalries did Clemson shirk en route to their championships?

For my part, I don't care whether we play the best or the worst, so long as we play our rivals.

P.S. -- I've lurked here for several years, and I've always enjoyed reading your posts.

 

[05_never_again]

I agree with this. The state of Alabama does not have the population itself to produce a ton of football talent internally. They don't even have the population of Tennessee. What they do have is Saban and he's a great coach and recruiter. HE has a national brand that Bama has glommed onto and has ridden to success. Once he's gone, there's no putting that toothpaste back in the tube. Recall Ray Perkins was going to be their savior after Bear? Didn't happen. How about Bill Curry? Didn't happen. Others? They didn't happen either UNTIL Saban. There's nothing special about Bama football other than Nic Saban.

There's clearly something as an institution that they've done right over the decades though. They are probably the most decorated program of all time. The two best coaches in the history of the sport both coached there. Even their "down periods" are much better than other schools' down periods; Ray Perkins went 32-15-1, Bill Curry went 26-10 with an SEC title, Gene Stallings went 62-25 with a national title. Mike DuBose (a total joke, Derek Dooley-type of coach) was a game above .500 with an SEC title. Shula finished 3 games above .500. Their bad coaches all finish above .500. I hate it, but it is what it is.

I think a better way of putting it is that there isn't anything really special about the State of Alabama. It is not a particularly high population state, is not a particularly wealthy state, and is not a primo recruiting state (not great, not terrible).

 

[901 Orange]

I suppose there's an argument to be made there. But I don't get why that loss should have tanked everything else. The year before UT was pretty much out of it after losing to Florida and Arkansas, but they rebounded to beat UGA and played their best game against Bama during the current streak. They didn't lose again, winning all the games they should have won.

I guess I don't understand why they played great with nothing to play for and played lousy with everything on the line.

Ok let me lay out my thought process on this. It was the way they loss. Imagine finally getting over the hump. You blitz Fla in the 2nd half and you get an alltime great play vs UGA. Beating both in the same year will have you feeling yourself around here. Then you go toe-to-toe with another top 10 team. You lose in double OT but you feel like they didnt beat you, there were just too many mistakes. At this point, everything is still in front of you and you truly believe you can beat.Bama at this point. Then 10-49 happens and im not really sure they recovered from that mentally. I believe that was the start of the end for Butch.

 

[hog88]

There's clearly something as an institution that they've done right over the decades though. They are probably the most decorated program of all time. The two best coaches in the history of the sport both coached there. Even their "down periods" are much better than other schools' down periods; Ray Perkins went 32-15-1, Bill Curry went 26-10 with an SEC title, Gene Stallings went 62-25 with a national title. Mike DuBose (a total joke, Derek Dooley-type of coach) was a game above .500 with an SEC title. Shula finished 3 games above .500. Their bad coaches all finish above .500. I hate it, but it is what it is.

I think a better way of putting it is that there isn't anything really special about the State of Alabama. It is not a particularly high population state, is not a particularly wealthy state, and is not a primo recruiting state (not great, not terrible).

Neyland didn’t coach at Bama.