Drae Bowles

[GoMocs]

Any way it is spun, this is terrible press for UTK and UTK football. The Nashville Tennessean's article's headlines today were that a UTK player put a "hit" out on another player..and now Washington Post has them beating up Bowles....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...awsuit-over-athletes-alleged-sexual-assaults/


Do a google news alert search on this and you will be shocked at how much traction this is getting...

 

[crusse10]

As I understand it, you've never been formally charged with male prostitution.

also never admitted to it to police

aka what Orta did

 

[Boca Vol]

The demands were made on behalf of all six females, including the athlete "victim" in AJ's case. While I'm no expert on what sport pays for what, I don't think a rowing scholarship would pay for ALL of your tuition and board. Not to mention, she left the school and transferred to another institution shortly after the charges were filed. She now wants Tennessee to pay for her education elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure Title IX demands an equal amount of scholarships for men and women. The 85 football schollys allow for 85 female schollys. I'm sure rowing is a part of them.

 

[wmcovol]

The demands were made on behalf of all six females, including the athlete "victim" in AJ's case. While I'm no expert on what sport pays for what, I don't think a rowing scholarship would pay for ALL of your tuition and board. Not to mention, she left the school and transferred to another institution shortly after the charges were filed. She now wants Tennessee to pay for her education elsewhere.

Every female scholarship I have known about were full rides at D1 schools. Remember they have to give a number of scholarships equal to the men and 85 alone starts with football so a lot of money is given to women in about 7 or 8 sports.

 

[Boca Vol]

Every female scholarship I have known about were full rides at D1 schools. Remember they have to give a number of scholarships equal to the men and 85 alone starts with football so a lot of money is given to women in about 7 or 8 sports.

My niece is going to UT this Fall on a swimming scholarship (full ride). I'm not sure the men's swim team offers full rides.

 

[crusse10]

My niece is going to UT this Fall on a swimming scholarship (full ride). I'm not sure the men's swim team offers full rides.

Many men's teams have half rides, etc. Just about every women's team has full rides, though. I don't believe EVERY Tennessee women's NCAA athlete is on a full ride scholarship, though.

 

[big harry]

Though a defendant may subsequently have to face civil trial after a criminal trial, the courts have long held and established that a defendant should not be subject to parallel proceedings because of the inherent unfairness of facing two trials with a different set of rules and the unquestionable dangers of evidentiary and jury cross-contamination.

There are literally 100s of pitfalls with parallel proceedings, but see London v. Patterson if you are interested in some the key issues.

While Johnson and Williams are not named as defendants in the civil suit here, the presumption of their guilt is so central to this suit that it is treading on very thin ice. I would not be surprised to see this lawsuit stayed on these very grounds.

Say what now what now?

 

[vol66]

Do you not think that if several D1 SEC football players "assaulted" you that you wouldn't end up in the hospital, or at least have several broken bones, bruises, scratches etc..... that would have at least corroborated the mystery woman's statement???

I find it hard to believe that he was "physically assaulted" I do however think that he was intimidated a bunch. That would need to be addressed by the authorities and disciplinary action and legal action handed down to all that were involved. However verbal assaults and physical are two completely different animals..... having very different criminal sentences as well. Drae's statements at the time of questioning DO NOT BACK UP this woman's statements........ do you not find that the lease bit concerning???

Not in the least. Ms. Doe V and VI are on the same page as well as the players involved other than Bowles.

The real question is does UT want this to go to trial and Bowles be called as a witness under oath? THAT would be interesting.

 

[GoMocs]

I'm pretty sure Title IX demands an equal amount of scholarships for men and women. The 85 football schollys allow for 85 female schollys. I'm sure rowing is a part of them.

Title IX does NOT demand a direct one for one equal number of scholarships. The number of scholarships is one factor that is looked at but it is not alone the only factor. The number of scholarships awarded to females is supposed to be generally in line with the number of females in the school. If a school is 65 % female, then the athletic scholarships should reflect that about 65% of the scholarships awarded are to females. How the school funds women's sports, their facilities, their coaching staffs, etc are also taken into account.

Title IX was great in principle, but has a huge assumption error. It assumes that women want to participate at the same rate in athletics as men do. I just don't think in reality that as high of a % of women want to play sports as the % of guys do. Title IX assumes that to be fact.

 

[fade route]

My niece is going to UT this Fall on a swimming scholarship (full ride). I'm not sure the men's swim team offers full rides.

Congrats to your niece! That's great

 

[TrueOrange]

Why do you need that information?


This isn't simply a locker room fight.

Amazing how do many are willing to give passes based on a jersey color

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Boca Vol]

Congrats to your niece! That's great

Thanks. She's excited. Her mom was an All-American at UT back in the 80's. Hopefully, she'll keep the trend going.

 

[JettVol]

Not in this country

underrated post IMO. :lolabove:

 

[MajorJohnny]

A lot of people felt that the accuser didn't make the accusations until Bowles talked to her. So, maybe he did what was right. Or maybe he influenced her to do what was wrong out of his own hurt feelings.

As a VFL, I will support all VFLs - including AJ - until there is proof of some kind of wrongdoing that would remove his VFL status. I've not seen that yet, as it's still a "she-said" case. I do know that there are plenty of people backing his side. And I also know that his attorneys are trying to get access to all the evidence they can, while hers are trying to hide evidence. I also know that his future has been jeopardized while he is still presumed innocent.

We have a winner

 

[JettVol]

Not in the least. Ms. Doe V and VI are on the same page as well as the players involved other than Bowles.

The real question is does UT want this to go to trial and Bowles be called as a witness under oath? THAT would be interesting.

So let me understand this correctly.....The Does are in agreement...... Ortega and Maggitt state they there was a confrontation "don't specify if physical in nature"......"got in his face". This doesn't relate to any physical contact rather at most an invasion of personal space. They are all alluding to a vicious assault of Drae Bowles.


However when Drae Bowles is questioned he denies any assault ever taking place.......and you are ok with that????


Hope to god you are a prosecutor trying to get the cash for the woman, cause that looks like a hell of a hole for the defense to exploit. How can there be an assault if the person who the assault happened to denies that it happened and the students accused of the assault said they confronted him, but it wasn't physical in nature.

It would be like me saying you got raped by someone, and the person that I say raped you, they say that they didn't do it, and you also state that it never happened......... do you see where you make no sense whatsoever.


The only people who are saying anything about an assault are third party accounts that weren't at the athletic facility where the assault took place and are not participants in said assault.

 

[wmcovol]

Not in the least. Ms. Doe V and VI are on the same page as well as the players involved other than Bowles.

The real question is does UT want this to go to trial and Bowles be called as a witness under oath? THAT would be interesting.

I predict this will NOT go to trial. The lawyers will bill massive amounts of hours until the circumstances begin to appear that the limit has been reached and UT offers to settle or the victims stories begin to fall apart and the victims make an offer. If the attorneys begin to think they wont get all of their $, they will tank this baby, offer a reasonable settlement to UT and move on. Remember, attorneys don't give a **** about justice, they care about their $. My experience has been the side which feels they are beginning to lose initiates the settlement offer in order to stop the bleeding.

 

[GoMocs]

Many people think "assault" is a physical attack upon another, while it is:

"In some jurisdictions assault is defined as the threat of bodily harm that reasonably causes fear of harm in the victim while battery is the actual physical impact on another person. If the victim has not actually been touched, but only threatened (or someone attempted to touch them), then the crime is assault."

I sense many of you had the same thought, assault being a physical attack. What if Drae when questioned thought the same thing, ie that he was not assaulted because he was not struck? Assault, being threatened, is still a crime.

 

[Boca Vol]

Many people think "assault" is a physical attack upon another, while it is:

"In some jurisdictions assault is defined as the threat of bodily harm that reasonably causes fear of harm in the victim while battery is the actual physical impact on another person. If the victim has not actually been touched, but only threatened (or someone attempted to touch them), then the crime is assault."

I sense many of you had the same thought, assault being a physical attack. What if Drae when questioned thought the same thing, ie that he was not assaulted because he was not struck? Assault, being threatened, is still a crime.

I agree. Many are confusing assault & battery. Assaults can be verbal or gestures.

 

[Rifleman]

Just to add to this on the assault question: the specific type of assault being alleged is the misdemeanor Simple Assault.

To get a simple assault conviction (as opposed to aggravated assault or battery) without corroborating witnesses is tough obviously.

The first thing you would need would to have charges filed by the victim, which has not happened in this case.

From there, beyond a reasonable doubt, the evidence must show:

* that the defendant intentionally threatened the victim with an attack or bodily harm
* that the defendant appeared to have the ability to carry out the threat and/or took some sort of action that seemed to set an attack in motion, and
* that this threat caused the person to fear immediate serious violence, or
* the defendant actually attempted to or applied physical force to the victim.

Verbal threats alone do not constitute an assault, so the prosecutor’s case must include evidence of more than a person yelling something like “I’m going to kick your ass!”

There must be evidence that the defendant had a weapon in his hand when he made the threat or took some action like walking toward the victim in a menacing manner OR that the defendant was raising a fist as he stood close enough to the victim to throw a punch.

The last is likely what is being alleged in the lawsuit, though, to be clear, this is not being alleged by Bowles as far as I know.

 

[vol-un-tear]

Sounds like they gave Bowls a code red

 

[QuickSmurf]

This is what we know.

1) The lawsuit, as it is posited, relies heavily on the assumption that A.J. Johnson and Michael Williams are guilty of crimes they have yet to be convicted of.

2) The lawsuit seeks compensatory damages for emotional suffering experienced as part of this crime because, in part, of knowledge of intimidation of Drae Bowles which the lawsuit details by second-hand hearsay.

3) The second-hand hearsay directly contradicts statements made by Drae Bowles himself.

4) The lawsuit mis-characterizes Bowles' being apart from the team as a cover up by the coaching staff, and an attempt to protect Bowles from angry teammates, when Bowles himself testified that he was separated from the team for academic reasons.

5) If Johnson and Williams were found innocent of the crimes they are accused of, the lawsuit as it pertains to these events has no foundation whatsoever.

6) Clearly, there is a media component to this lawsuit. Lawyers seeking compensatory damages for their clients, always use the media to apply pressure in these cases. That is fair game.

7) However, I take issue with building the case around a presumption of guilt for Johnson and Williams, when they should constitutionally be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

8) Making this the center-piece of the lawsuit is clearly intended to increase pressure to settle on UT with little regard to whether it biases the trial for Johnson and Williams.

9) In fact, if the trial was biased by an onslaught of media, it would only benefit the litigants in the civil suit.

10) Therefore, the timing here is clearly intentional, as the suit as written would have little basis for compensatory damages if Johnson and Williams are acquitted of these charges.

11) The fact that the incident with Bowles is leveraged in the media to suggest that Maggit and Orta committed a physical assault, when the assault was verbal threats at most, is only further evidence of the game that is being played here.

Feel free to call me biased if you want.

If you are certain nothing sleazy is going on here, then I will feel free to call you naive.

If AJ is innocent why didn't he go to the NFL draft combine? If you think there is nothing to this I think your the niave one.

 

[vol66]

So let me understand this correctly.....The Does are in agreement...... Ortega and Maggitt state they there was a confrontation "don't specify if physical in nature"......"got in his face". This doesn't relate to any physical contact rather at most an invasion of personal space. They are all alluding to a vicious assault of Drae Bowles.


However when Drae Bowles is questioned he denies any assault ever taking place.......and you are ok with that????


Hope to god you are a prosecutor trying to get the cash for the woman, cause that looks like a hell of a hole for the defense to exploit. How can there be an assault if the person who the assault happened to denies that it happened and the students accused of the assault said they confronted him, but it wasn't physical in nature.

It would be like me saying you got raped by someone, and the person that I say raped you, they say that they didn't do it, and you also state that it never happened......... do you see where you make no sense whatsoever.


The only people who are saying anything about an assault are third party accounts that weren't at the athletic facility where the assault took place and are not participants in said assault.

I have no problem with you looking at it the way you are, I just don't see it the same way.

 

[vol66]

I predict this will NOT go to trial. The lawyers will bill massive amounts of hours until the circumstances begin to appear that the limit has been reached and UT offers to settle or the victims stories begin to fall apart and the victims make an offer. If the attorneys begin to think they wont get all of their $, they will tank this baby, offer a reasonable settlement to UT and move on. Remember, attorneys don't give a **** about justice, they care about their $. My experience has been the side which feels they are beginning to lose initiates the settlement offer in order to stop the bleeding.

I agree with your prediction. I think this will end like the Colorado case which was also a Title IX affair. Colorado settled for 2.8 million, 2.5 going to one victim and $300K to another after spending 3 million on outside counsel and taking it up the ringer in the national press.

I recall even on this site in the NCAA forum many posts regarding what a cess pool the Colorado football program was, not to mention more recent events down at FSU and Baylor.

 

[Vol_sanity]

One thing that always stood out is that Bowles sat in the stands for the game right after this broke. I had never seen a player come up to stands in a jersey. Seems like he was separated from the team. Just an odd situation...

 

[Cdrnek]

If AJ is innocent why didn't he go to the NFL draft combine? If you think there is nothing to this I think your the niave one.

Pretty sure he wasn't invited because of the pending trial not because he didn't want to go..