Drae Bowles

[KBVol]

Was wondering when or if this would ever come back up.

Twss.

 

[JettVol]

Do you expect him to say, "they were trying to intimidate me so with the help and blessing of Coach Jones I took my talents to UTC"?

I don't think it's weird he's gonna tow the company line in the same way that Timothy Burkhalter resigns abruptly after five months on the job and refused to say why after investigating a similar case at Tennessee.

The same way Yemi quietly moves on...that's the way it goes.

Do you not think that if several D1 SEC football players "assaulted" you that you wouldn't end up in the hospital, or at least have several broken bones, bruises, scratches etc..... that would have at least corroborated the mystery woman's statement???

I find it hard to believe that he was "physically assaulted" I do however think that he was intimidated a bunch. That would need to be addressed by the authorities and disciplinary action and legal action handed down to all that were involved. However verbal assaults and physical are two completely different animals..... having very different criminal sentences as well. Drae's statements at the time of questioning DO NOT BACK UP this woman's statements........ do you not find that the lease bit concerning???

 

[hog88]

If your friend came to you and told you that she was raped, do you think that you should be assaulted for helping her and taking her side?

Physically assaulted no. I would fully expect a verbal berating by my teammates would even expect some of them to make threats.

 

[jkleno]

This is what we know.

1) The lawsuit, as it is posited, relies heavily on the assumption that A.J. Johnson and Michael Williams are guilty of crimes they have yet to be convicted of.

2) The lawsuit seeks compensatory damages for emotional suffering experienced as part of this crime because, in part, of knowledge of intimidation of Drae Bowles which the lawsuit details by second-hand hearsay.

3) The second-hand hearsay directly contradicts statements made by Drae Bowles himself.

4) The lawsuit mis-characterizes Bowles' being apart from the team as a cover up by the coaching staff, and an attempt to protect Bowles from angry teammates, when Bowles himself testified that he was separated from the team for academic reasons.

5) If Johnson and Williams were found innocent of the crimes they are accused of, the lawsuit as it pertains to these events has no foundation whatsoever.

6) Clearly, there is a media component to this lawsuit. Lawyers seeking compensatory damages for their clients, always use the media to apply pressure in these cases. That is fair game.

7) However, I take issue with building the case around a presumption of guilt for Johnson and Williams, when they should constitutionally be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

8) Making this the center-piece of the lawsuit is clearly intended to increase pressure to settle on UT with little regard to whether it biases the trial for Johnson and Williams.

9) In fact, if the trial was biased by an onslaught of media, it would only benefit the litigants in the civil suit.

10) Therefore, the timing here is clearly intentional, as the suit as written would have little basis for compensatory damages if Johnson and Williams are acquitted of these charges.

11) The fact that the incident with Bowles is leveraged in the media to suggest that Maggit and Orta committed a physical assault, when the assault was verbal threats at most, is only further evidence of the game that is being played here.

Feel free to call me biased if you want.

I you are certain nothing sleazy is going on here, then I will feel free to call you naive.

You are missing the timeline here. The altercation with Orta and Maggit occurred right after the team found out about AJ. These players took AJ's side without ANY consideration of what actually occurred. The bottom line is they chose to back AJ and not DB. They come from the intellect that you shouldn't do what is right in your heart and stuck by a teammate without any regard to what happened. Reading back on things, DB was voted by the team to represent them in many ways- both academically and in a leadership role before the incident. Maybe Boles didn't become the on the field superstar we all hoped, but he did what he felt was right in the moment. As a VFL, I will embrace a kid with a high academic standard who represented our school in the right way versus this Orta character.

 

[RikidyBones]

I hate saying this but my daughter was all set to go to UT this fall and now we are seriously considering other options. Im sure this goes on at every campus though.

I wouldn't overreact to this. As they are under a microscope, I'm sure things will be handled appropriately. Also, a "sexual culture" at college is recreational from the school. Ut doesn't support rape. Fsu doesn't either. They also don't endorse sexual activities as it's not their industry. Jmo

 

[hog88]

I hate saying this but my daughter was all set to go to UT this fall and now we are seriously considering other options. Im sure this goes on at every campus though.

Don't let this stupidity influence your decision. Dear daughter graduates this spring and has loved her 4 years, she's angling for a way to get us to pay for grad school so she can stay.

 

[Kristy*]

You are missing the timeline here. The altercation with Orta and Maggit occurred right after the team found out about AJ. These players took AJ's side without ANY consideration of what actually occurred. The bottom line is they chose to back AJ and not DB. They come from the intellect that you shouldn't do what is right in your heart and stuck by a teammate without any regard to what happened. Reading back on things, DB was voted by the team to represent them in many ways- both academically and in a leadership role before the incident. Maybe Boles didn't become the on the field superstar we all hoped, but he did what he felt was right in the moment. As a VFL, I will embrace a kid with a high academic standard who represented our school in the right way versus this Orta character.

A lot of people felt that the accuser didn't make the accusations until Bowles talked to her. So, maybe he did what was right. Or maybe he influenced her to do what was wrong out of his own hurt feelings.

As a VFL, I will support all VFLs - including AJ - until there is proof of some kind of wrongdoing that would remove his VFL status. I've not seen that yet, as it's still a "she-said" case. I do know that there are plenty of people backing his side. And I also know that his attorneys are trying to get access to all the evidence they can, while hers are trying to hide evidence. I also know that his future has been jeopardized while he is still presumed innocent.

 

[jspvol76]

I hate saying this but my daughter was all set to go to UT this fall and now we are seriously considering other options. Im sure this goes on at every campus though.

If this is your line of thinking, then you would be better convincing her to get an online degree from the University of Phoenix, because your last statement is unfortunately true.

 

[tenninohio]

Every stinking off season we've got carp like this.

Fish stink from the head down. very sad if coaches and athletic administration were culpable.

 

[GoBigOrangeVols]

This is what we know.

1) The lawsuit, as it is posited, relies heavily on the assumption that A.J. Johnson and Michael Williams are guilty of crimes they have yet to be convicted of.

2) The lawsuit seeks compensatory damages for emotional suffering experienced as part of this crime because, in part, of knowledge of intimidation of Drae Bowles which the lawsuit details by second-hand hearsay.

3) The second-hand hearsay directly contradicts statements made by Drae Bowles himself.

4) The lawsuit mis-characterizes Bowles' being apart from the team as a cover up by the coaching staff, and an attempt to protect Bowles from angry teammates, when Bowles himself testified that he was separated from the team for academic reasons.

5) If Johnson and Williams were found innocent of the crimes they are accused of, the lawsuit as it pertains to these events has no foundation whatsoever.

6) Clearly, there is a media component to this lawsuit. Lawyers seeking compensatory damages for their clients, always use the media to apply pressure in these cases. That is fair game.

7) However, I take issue with building the case around a presumption of guilt for Johnson and Williams, when they should constitutionally be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

8) Making this the center-piece of the lawsuit is clearly intended to increase pressure to settle on UT with little regard to whether it biases the trial for Johnson and Williams.

9) In fact, if the trial was biased by an onslaught of media, it would only benefit the litigants in the civil suit.

10) Therefore, the timing here is clearly intentional, as the suit as written would have little basis for compensatory damages if Johnson and Williams are acquitted of these charges.

11) The fact that the incident with Bowles is leveraged in the media to suggest that Maggit and Orta committed a physical assault, when the assault was verbal threats at most, is only further evidence of the game that is being played here.

Feel free to call me biased if you want.

If you are certain nothing sleazy is going on here, then I will feel free to call you naive.

You are missing one key point here, and that is that even if Williams and Johnson were acquitted of the charges in criminal court, that would have no bearing on their liability in the instant civil proceeding. Two different standards of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt vs. preponderance of the evidence).

Of course, they're not included as Defendants in this civil action, but a part of the claim against the University is that those events did occur, so it is likely that the Plaintiffs will have to prove that the alleged events did in fact occur, and it will be the Plaintiffs' burden to do so by the preponderance of the evidence.

 

[etmVol]

I have no idea what to believe, and will be reading closely as things progress, but this I seriously doubt. I have never heard of players missing practices, then games, due to a meeting with a professor.

While a college baseball schedule is a much different beast than football, missing practices/games for academic engagements can and does happen, especially if the student/athlete in question is not a starter. Due to a class required for my major only being offered once a semester, I had to miss a day of baseball practice every week in the fall semester my junior year. I missed portions of midweek games my freshman year because of classes (I didn't play much that year).

I hate saying this but my daughter was all set to go to UT this fall and now we are seriously considering other options. Im sure this goes on at every campus though.

Yes, it does. I've spent time on the campuses of both public universities and private colleges. Kids and young adults make bad decisions. When alcohol is involved, more bad decisions happen. When young men see willing young women, they will take advantage of the situation. If your daughter uses common sense, doesn't put herself in bad situations, and does not drink herself beyond coherent decision-making, she will likely be just fine.

 

[Boca Vol]

Wasn't the story back when this happened that the female athlete was dating Bowles and that she was hooking up with AJ on the side? Also, Bowles testified earlier that the alleged victim never even mentioned she was raped when he picked her up initially. Forgive me, but I'm really not buying this whole dog and pony show. It is telling to me that the first thing the alleged victims demand for restitution is their entire college education paid for.

Unless I read it wrong, this incident concerns "Jane Doe IV" who was on scholarship on the rowing team. So her school was already being paid for.

 

[Rifleman]

You are missing the timeline here. The altercation with Orta and Maggit occurred right after the team found out about AJ. These players took AJ's side without ANY consideration of what actually occurred. The bottom line is they chose to back AJ and not DB. They come from the intellect that you shouldn't do what is right in your heart and stuck by a teammate without any regard to what happened. Reading back on things, DB was voted by the team to represent them in many ways- both academically and in a leadership role before the incident. Maybe Boles didn't become the on the field superstar we all hoped, but he did what he felt was right in the moment. As a VFL, I will embrace a kid with a high academic standard who represented our school in the right way versus this Orta character.

I'm pretty sure you are making claims to know things here that only God Almighty could know.

I apologize if you are God and you know what is in all men's hearts and minds, but I don't think you are.

 

[youngcraig1]

Maybe Boles didn't become the on the field superstar we all hoped, but he did what he felt was right in the moment. As a VFL, I will embrace a kid with a high academic standard who represented our school in the right way versus this Orta character.

Agree 100.

Anyone else read that story in the Tennessean about the M. Lane rape case? Orta's part in that whole situation was repulsive.

 

[crusse10]

Have Maggit or Orta been charged with witness tampering now? That is a serious accusation with no proof. Surely, even if you believe the conspiracy theory that Bowles' testimony contradicts this lawsuit because his testimony was coerced, that coercion must be proven, no?

Soon you'll be telling us all that Coach Jones ordered the code red on Private Santiago.

Charged? No. Does it mean they didn't do it? No.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe witness tampering does not include intimidating a person close to a situation regarding that situation who may be called as a witness to that situation.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Agree 100.

Anyone else read that story in the Tennessean about the M. Lane rape case? Orta's part in that whole situation was repulsive.

What exactly was Orta's role in the Marlin Lane case?

 

[Vol8188]

Agree 100.

Anyone else read that story in the Tennessean about the M. Lane rape case? Orta's part in that whole situation was repulsive.

Can you send a link?

 

[livefaith]

Agree 100.

Anyone else read that story in the Tennessean about the M. Lane rape case? Orta's part in that whole situation was repulsive.

This may be OT or OnTopic. But, I was always fascinated at the "position" that Geraldo Orta seemed to have on Team 117/118. He played ST and was a backup DB who played in scrub time iirc. But, he was at the center of nearly every photo op situation. Whether Jones locked arm in arm coming out of the tunnel. In the front of celebrations with players etc etc.

As a player it just seemed his "leadership role" was inverse of his on-field performance. Although that UGA punter's broken jaw was a thing to behold. Maybe he was just the personality of the team and tight with bona fide leaders like AJ / Curt.

Just an observation from a couple years back. Anyone else wonder about that?

 

[wmcovol]

These players took AJ's side without ANY consideration of what actually occurred.

I think that may be proven incorrect. Ive heard that the "victim" in the AJ case had been pursuing him for some time and others on the team knew this. Johnson had shared some texts with teammates from her even though she was "dating" Bowles. I know the prosecution in the rape case has fought hard to keep her texts out of the discovery in the criminal trial, successfully up to this point.

Orta's role in the Lane situation was Orta had sex with a girl, left the room and Lane went in the "seconds". I posted here on this board at the time it was the only thing Orta hit in 4 yrs in Knox. Many took offense to it even though true.

Butch's order for the players to quit talking with DB could just as easily been for them to stop going after him about the incident. Of course the filing makes it sound much worse and that is the job of the plaintiff attorney. Just because it is said doesn't make it true.

 

[UT_Dutchman]

It's amazing how they claim nothing happened to any of these players, yet each of them was removed from the program.

And an investigation took place. There's nothing more you could've asked for from CBJ. So idk why he's included. This is about money and nothing else

You are exactly right Vol8188, if each of these women were given a million dollars tomorrow that would end this.

 

[Rifleman]

You are missing one key point here, and that is that even if Williams and Johnson were acquitted of the charges in criminal court, that would have no bearing on their liability in the instant civil proceeding. Two different standards of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt vs. preponderance of the evidence).

Of course, they're not included as Defendants in this civil action, but a part of the claim against the University is that those events did occur, so it is likely that the Plaintiffs will have to prove that the alleged events did in fact occur, and it will be the Plaintiffs' burden to do so by the preponderance of the evidence.

Though a defendant may subsequently have to face civil trial after a criminal trial, the courts have long held and established that a defendant should not be subject to parallel proceedings because of the inherent unfairness of facing two trials with a different set of rules and the unquestionable dangers of evidentiary and jury cross-contamination.

There are literally 100s of pitfalls with parallel proceedings, but see London v. Patterson if you are interested in some the key issues.

While Johnson and Williams are not named as defendants in the civil suit here, the presumption of their guilt is so central to this suit that it is treading on very thin ice. I would not be surprised to see this lawsuit stayed on these very grounds.

 

[RikidyBones]

You are missing the timeline here. The altercation with Orta and Maggit occurred right after the team found out about AJ. These players took AJ's side without ANY consideration of what actually occurred. The bottom line is they chose to back AJ and not DB. They come from the intellect that you shouldn't do what is right in your heart and stuck by a teammate without any regard to what happened. Reading back on things, DB was voted by the team to represent them in many ways- both academically and in a leadership role before the incident. Maybe Boles didn't become the on the field superstar we all hoped, but he did what he felt was right in the moment. As a VFL, I will embrace a kid with a high academic standard who represented our school in the right way versus this Orta character.

Do you honestly believe that these players didn't talk about the situation? Surely you don't.

 

[Rockytoptn83]

Unless I read it wrong, this incident concerns "Jane Doe IV" who was on scholarship on the rowing team. So her school was already being paid for.

The demands were made on behalf of all six females, including the athlete "victim" in AJ's case. While I'm no expert on what sport pays for what, I don't think a rowing scholarship would pay for ALL of your tuition and board. Not to mention, she left the school and transferred to another institution shortly after the charges were filed. She now wants Tennessee to pay for her education elsewhere.

 

[Rifleman]

Charged? No. Does it mean they didn't do it? No.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe witness tampering does not include intimidating a person close to a situation regarding that situation who may be called as a witness to that situation.

As I understand it, you've never been formally charged with male prostitution.

 

[RikidyBones]

As I understand it, you've never been formally charged with male prostitution.

Not in this country