Dooley = Genuis?

#326
#326
dooley2 said:
Tyler Bray, was a solid get, although he would have gone to any major D-1 school that offered. We were the only ones to, because we were short a qb after Kiffin ran off Taj Boyd. Channing Fugate backs up a sophomore. Jawuan James was a solid get. Corey Miller backs up one of Dooley's guys. Jacquez Smith starts. Zach Fulton starts. Marsalis Teague backs up a sophomore. Zach Rogers backs up two of Dooley's guys, would be 3 if Da'rick hadn't smoked the dope. Marlon Walls is second string. Willie Bohannon is second string. Ben Bartholomew starts at a full back position that UT rarely uses. P-Wagg starts. Lathers starts but has been hurt all his career including missing time this season. Dallas Thomas solid get.

So of those 14 guys, 7 start. So, yep, we've got a lot of talent held over from the Fulmer and Kiffin recruits.

These are the classes that are supposed to be the leaders of our team, and there are only seven that actually start.
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I am not saying that Dooley had it easy, but he had a chance to look at the roster before he took the job. I just wish Hamilton had not offered it.
 
#327
#327
dont114 said:
When you give "he is the son of Vince Dooley" as one of the reasons that Derek will be successful, aren't you assuming he can coach because his daddy could? That's a pretty long reach. You know, you might not be a bad person to discuss this with if you would stop trying to insult everyone who disagrees with you.
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I didn't say that was one of the reasons he would be successful. Apparently it's safe to assume your reading comprehension is not on par.

Someone, maybe it was you, asked where he learned to coach. I said:

His dad is a legend of the SEC, he worked many years for probably the best coach in the NCAA.
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I didn't say those were reasons he would be successful now did I? I said that's where he learned to coach. Good try, junior.
 
#328
#328
dont114 said:
I am not saying that Dooley had it easy, but he had a chance to look at the roster before he took the job. I just wish Hamilton had not offered it.
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Yes, Dooley did look at the roster. He saw the challenges and he took the job anyway. Hamilton offered Sumlin, Calhoun, Muschamp, Cutcliffe, and Kelly to name a few. It was two weeks before signing day. Those guys turned it down.
 
#329
#329
dont114 said:
When you give "he is the son of Vince Dooley" as one of the reasons that Derek will be successful, aren't you assuming he can coach because his daddy could? That's a pretty long reach. You know, you might not be a bad person to discuss this with if you would stop trying to insult everyone who disagrees with you.
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And I'm sorry for coming across as I'm insulting you, or anyone else at that point, but I have brought fact-after-fact-after-fact to this board, only to be told "well, look at his record" or "you're just making excuses for a sorry coach". No one on here, including the Lebanon guy, wants to look on the internet where all this information is readily available. They just want to assume that Dooley is a bad coach for things to which they know nothing about. And when I put something out there for consideration, it gets completely bypassed. It gets super annoying after awhile.
 
#330
#330
Military Men and Football players= TWO HUGELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
Football players party, go to school, practice, hangout, and live like celebrities on campus. A player is late to class he may get away with it if its a relaxed teacher if not hen he does laps later at practice.
Military all are equal atbthe beginning, no shenanigans, no partying, no celebrity status and you are usually in school together. If you are late to class you do push ups in class. You cant quit and get away with it. College you may get away with it everyonce in a while.
 
#331
#331
dbarker said:
Military Men and Football players= TWO HUGELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
Football players party, go to school, practice, hangout, and live like celebrities on campus. A player is late to class he may get away with it if its a relaxed teacher if not hen he does laps later at practice.
Military all are equal atbthe beginning, no shenanigans, no partying, no celebrity status and you are usually in school together. If you are late to class you do push ups in class. You cant quit and get away with it. College you may get away with it everyonce in a while.
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Have you ever been in the military?
 
#333
#333
dbarker said:
Military Men and Football players= TWO HUGELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
Football players party, go to school, practice, hangout, and live like celebrities on campus. A player is late to class he may get away with it if its a relaxed teacher if not hen he does laps later at practice.
Military all are equal atbthe beginning, no shenanigans, no partying, no celebrity status and you are usually in school together. If you are late to class you do push ups in class. You cant quit and get away with it. College you may get away with it everyonce in a while.
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In all seriousness, too, today's college athletes are probably a lot more mentally fragile than college athletes of old. Leach might have been able to get away with locking a kid in a shed in the 70's, but now everyone wants their hands held.

*Note: I'm not condoning locking a kid in a shed. I'm only saying that there are certain things that get a very bad rap that aren't as bad as some people complain they are. Some "punishments" are great tools to build character.*
 
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#334
#334
dooley2 said:
Yes, Dooley did look at the roster. He saw the challenges and he took the job anyway. Hamilton offered Sumlin, Calhoun, Muschamp, Cutcliffe, and Kelly to name a few. It was two weeks before signing day. Those guys turned it down.
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Money made the only difference. Stop pretending that Dooley's honor is what made him take the job.

Hamilton offered the other guys a ****ty salary and they said no. Dooley was smart and saw UT as a big time job that he would never be qualified for. So he took it.

Nobody blames him for that.
 
#335
#335
dooley2 said:
In all seriousness, too, today's college athletes are probably a lot more mentally fragile than college athletes of old. Leach might have been able to get away with locking a kid in a shed in the 70's, but now everyone wants their hands held.

*Note: I'm not condoning locking a kid in a shed. I'm only saying that there are certain things that get a very bad rap that aren't as bad as some people complain they are. Some "punishments" are great tools to build character.*
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8664287-a-round-waffle-on-a-white-background.jpg
 
#336
#336
Wylo said:
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Money made the only difference. Stop pretending that Dooley's honor is what made him take the job.

Hamilton offered the other guys a ****ty salary and they said no. Dooley was smart and saw UT as a big time job that he would never be qualified for. So he took it.

Nobody blames him for that.
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I don't know what UT offered those other guys, but it was reported that Will Muschamp was offered 3 Million a year. Kiffin made 2 million a year here, and after years of servitude, Fulmer was making 2.99 a year. Florida got Muschamp for 2.75 a year. So, I don't know what you're basing the ****ty salary on, but if you know something I don't, feel free to share.
 
#338
#338
dooley2 said:
And I'm sorry for coming across as I'm insulting you, or anyone else at that point, but I have brought fact-after-fact-after-fact to this board, only to be told "well, look at his record" or "you're just making excuses for a sorry coach". No one on here, including the Lebanon guy, wants to look on the internet where all this information is readily available. They just want to assume that Dooley is a bad coach for things to which they know nothing about. And when I put something out there for consideration, it gets completely bypassed. It gets super annoying after awhile.
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You know, most people who post on here have a strong convictions and feel just as strongly about their opinion as you feel about yours. I spent a lot of time researching Dooley's career and compared it with every coach in the AP 25. IMO, he did not match up with any of those guys. I am really trying to under stand why anyone can think that he deserves more time or will ever get UT winning again.

Let me give you an example: You say that his daddy taught him to coach. I question that for the following reasons. Most college coaches go to work before the kids go to school and get home late at night. They spend lots and lots of hours away recruiting and when they are at home do you think they sit down and discuss football with the kids. Dooley walked-on at Virginia. Went to law school in Georgia and practiced law for 2 years. Next he was a GA at Georgia in 1996 but Vince wasn't the coach then. Now when do you think Vince taught him to coach? (As a side note, I remember reading that Monty Kiffin did not spend a lot to time with Lane because of the demands of his coaching career. Pete Carroll mentored him at USC.)
 
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#340
#340
dont114 said:
Have you ever been in the military?
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No Ive never been in the military but my father grandfather were. As well as three of my best friends and many other friends who are in Marines, Army, Air Force, and Navy...so all I hear from them is comparisons to military activities. In fact about to be an intern at Arnold Air Force Military Base and my current boss just retired from the Marines and he has told me alot of stories so I think I know at least enough to make a claim that Military Men have as someone already said more fundamentaly sound and strong minds. There is no non sense when on duty and while a student athlete is what we could call on duty...they may go through training camps similar to boot camps but they dont do it for more than camp. There is joking, pranks, and celebrity statuses for players and coaches ...when was the last time the military was like that? ( absolutely jot taking a punch at the military) just saying they dont get interviews on ESPn or get drafted by walking on stage in front of cameras and fans in New York. They get drafted say good bye to friends and family and get prepared to go to war or work. So...Military is not exactly the best refernce to football players especially in these days where a coach cant do what he could back in the old days.
 
#341
#341
dooley2 said:
I don't know what UT offered those other guys, but it was reported that Will Muschamp was offered 3 Million a year. Kiffin made 2 million a year here, and after years of servitude, Fulmer was making 2.99 a year. Florida got Muschamp for 2.75 a year. So, I don't know what you're basing the ****ty salary on, but if you know something I don't, feel free to share.
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Tell me where Dooley ranks among SEC coaches salaries...

That should tell you everything. He is getting paid like the WAC coach he truly is. The other guys didn't want to take that kind of money. Unless you have the copy of any contract turned away by any other guys, your figures are as much speculation as anything else.
 
#342
#342
dont114 said:
You know, most people who post on here have a strong convictions and feel just as strongly about their opinion as you feel about yours. I spent a lot of time researching Dooley's career and compared it with every coach in the AP 25. IMO, he did not match up with any of those guys. I am really trying to under stand why anyone can think that he deserves more time or will ever get UT winning again.

Let me give you an example: You say that his daddy taught him to coach. I question that for the following reasons. Most college coaches go to work before the kids go to school and get home late at night. They spend lots and lots of hours away recruiting and when they are at home do you think they sit down and discuss football with the kids. Dooley walked-on at Virginia. Went to law school in Georgia and practiced law for 2 years. Next he was a GA at Georgia in 1996 but Vince wasn't the coach then. Now when do you think Vince taught him to coach? (As a side note, I remember reading that Monty Kiffin did not spend a lot to time with Lane because of the demands of his coaching career. Pete Carroll mentored him at USC.)
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The one thing I feel strongly about is waiting until the end of the year to see where I stand with the football coach. Another thing I feel strongly about is people calling the coach names like "pathetic" and "idiot". That's completely uncalled for. That's the only reason I'm taking up for him, because people are way out of line with some of their accusations.

And it's cool that you took the time to compare him with all the other coaches, but how can you fairly do such a thing when no other coach in the top 25 has dealt with this kind of situation. The guy up at Penn State will see something very similar, and even a little worse, but not for another year or two when Penn State has had short recruiting classes.

As far as the Vince conversation goes, I have a hard time believing that DD learned nothing about football from VD. Maybe he didn't, I don't know, but you can't deny that he worked closely with the best coach in college football. It has been said that Derek has the closest Saban approach of any of the other Saban disciples. If Dooley's methodology is very close to Saban's then why isn't he winning? Don't you think there's even the slightest possibility it's because of the crappy situation he inherited?

Once again, I'm on the fence. After looking at how bad this program was when Dooley got here, I find it is completely illogical to assume he can't coach. It isn't fair to assess whether he can or not until he at least gets a full class in here, in my honest opinion.
 
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#343
#343
dooley2 said:
In all seriousness, too, today's college athletes are probably a lot more mentally fragile than college athletes of old. Leach might have been able to get away with locking a kid in a shed in the 70's, but now everyone wants their hands held.

*Note: I'm not condoning locking a kid in a shed. I'm only saying that there are certain things that get a very bad rap that aren't as bad as some people complain they are. Some "punishments" are great tools to build character.*
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Agreed.
 
#344
#344
dooley2 said:
I don't know what UT offered those other guys, but it was reported that Will Muschamp was offered 3 Million a year. Kiffin made 2 million a year here, and after years of servitude, Fulmer was making 2.99 a year. Florida got Muschamp for 2.75 a year. So, I don't know what you're basing the ****ty salary on, but if you know something I don't, feel free to share.
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Muschamp makes $3.22 million/yr.
 
#345
#345
UT's situation was not the worst situation ever in college football.

Bama had about 4 coaches in a short span. 1 of those sidelined by a strip club.

Michigan went from Power team, to spread, to hybrid. And three coaches in a few years.

Great coaches turn jobs around faster than what Dooley has done.

I am all for waiting until the end of the year, but please stop talking like UT was in the darkest days of college football when he got the job. Was it bad? Sure. But strong leaders would not use that as an excuse.
 
#347
#347
Wylo said:
Tell me where Dooley ranks among SEC coaches salaries...

That should tell you everything. He is getting paid like the WAC coach he truly is. The other guys didn't want to take that kind of money. Unless you have the copy of any contract turned away by any other guys, your figures are as much speculation as anything else.
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I actually said I didn't know how much the other guys were offered, so my "figures" are not speculation. I only know what it was reported that Muschamp was offered, and I also used to word "reported", so again, no speculation. And Florida got Muschamp for less than it was reported UT offered.

Now, tell me how you know for certain UT could afford to chuck out 4 mil a year. Do you know they can, or are you speculating. Fulmer was owed a 6 million dollar buyout when Dooley was hired. Now it's been reported that the athletic department is in the red. It's also been reported that Jim Haslam has placed money into 2 NFL programs since then. So how do you know that Haslam has stopped shelling out so much money and not moved onto another interest?
 
#348
#348
Dooley2. I agree with you. Comparing Dooley to Top 25 coaches is unfair...dont114 tell me how long each coach thats on you top 25 list took to get his team ranked and what was his record at that point (while being within 6 years of being a head coach) Dooley took two seasons and two games to get a completely dismantled roster to a quality talented and depth team that was ranked. All be it for one game...but we were ranked. Something Kiffin couldnt do with Fulmers players.
 
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