Does CBJ really want to be here?

#101
#101
OP. A couple of things don't work for this line of thinking.

#1 Butch never commented or indicated he was going after a "big time" hire the last time he had an OC search. That was 2 years ago, so connecting this with the idea that he has now decided to pack it in here cannot be shown in that.

#2 While I'm sure there comes and extreme point where coaches think "well crap at least I have the buyout". Jones is young and has a lot of opportunity ahead of him. Losing, getting fired, and counting a stack of buyout money, is no way to climb the ladder of coaching success to the top. If the wheels come off next season and were at say 2&4, then Jones will know he's done and start thinking buyout. Not yet I don't think.

I could care less if Jones gets a "sexy hire" or not. Because, I honestly don't know the day to day operations of the football program. Whether he pays Chip Kelly $5m/yr or promotes a grad assitant really makes no difference to me. I just want our team to win the East in 2017, win the SECCG, and end the year with a win. He's the head guy, and until a change I have to trust him to build the staff that can do it. Flashy or boring I could care less.

Finally, my personal thought is that Butch has had a bit of a learning curve in the SEC. As you allude to, he has certainly got pressure on him this season. And really probably more than anytime since his first year as a HC at CMU. Here's hoping that the pressure really causes him to block out everything but winning on the field in 17'. Some people crack under pressure. Others become diamonds. Butch has never taken one step back in his entire coaching career. Here's hoping that continues.
 
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#104
#104
KBVol said:
He had every right to say "F em all" to the fans/supporters of the program that make his $4mm salary possible....on the sideline of a game for all to see? Respectfully disagreee.
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I accept that. I understand your reasoning for not being okay with that. I don't blame him for being pissed about being booed up 35-0 and taking a field goal against Tennessee Tech. I just thought it was ridiculous myself. I could be more understanding if it was a meaningful game is what I was getting at. I said in a couple of comments I get why he did it, but that didn't make it okay. I think that was a sign of him feeling the heat and being insecure in his position. I can agree to disagree with you though, KB. You're entitled to that. I don't donate or anything to the program, if I could I would, I'm just a fan. I'm sure if I gave money to the school or football program I'd be on the side of the fence that you're on.
 
#105
#105
DenmarkVol said:
What you said about Shoop a thousand times. He should be given the freedom and the budget to hire whoever he wants, period.
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I would imagine if you're the new coordinator and you've got holdovers from the last staff that may not have bought in to what you want to do it would be hard to get the guys to buy in. They've been taught one way but the same guys and the new guy comes in and says "I want this taught that way" it could pose a problem. With the right guys Shoop will be successful IMO
 
#106
#106
BeecherVol said:
Im sure the job was more enjoyable when he lost games in the first 2 years and didn't get the kick back that he does now. Recruiting was going well and the slogans and cliches had not run their course yet. Fast forward 2 years later in a year where the division is still very winnable given his recruiting and the typical obstacles (UF,UGA and recently USC) are down and you finish with 2 Ls in your last 5 games to bad football teams.

The questions are coming more frequent and pointed than they ever have and they started at the beginning of the season and have hit a high point since Vandy and SC happened. The job is not as fun as it once was.
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i agree the honeymoon is over....and i want to win as bad as anyone, i mean I, sometimes unfortunately, have invested alot of time and money into this institution as many of you have.

But i cant say that since he lost those games he wasn't interested, that loss to vandy was just insane but the loss at SC was weird dealing with the transfer of preston and Jalen acting like a baby, alot was going on in that locker room we weren't privy too...so things like that and dealing with 18-22 years old guys, sometimes things go wrong......but i dont think it meant he wasnt committed to the program or wanted out.

and the vol walk for the Nebraska game worried me personally, the guys didnt look pumped, but they showed up and played well. I mean Barnet was talking the ENTIRE game lol even in the others teams huddle at times, so i dont think the kids gave up on coach and likewise i dont think he has given up....
 
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#107
#107
jakez4ut said:
As it was happening and I was listening to it on TV I just thought it was funny that the fans were booing. And I think honestly for most of the fans it was more of a joke than anything else.

Really, it's not like there was anything to boo-boo up 35 to nothing.

I think, rather, that was more insight into Butch's overall personality and insecurity than anything else.
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You are correct in personality and insecurity. The recruits are beginning to see this and the expired Snake Oil recipe that he has been using.

Butch is a great program builder and probably a great MAC coach. I just do not see him successful as a big program coach, outside of the BIG. His best team at Cincinnati was trounced by Dooley.
 
#108
#108
wesleydmartin said:
i agree the honeymoon is over....and i want to win as bad as anyone, i mean I, sometimes unfortunately, have invested alot of time and money into this institution as many of you have.

But i cant say that since he lost those games he wasn't interested, that loss to vandy was just insane but the loss at SC was weird dealing with the transfer of preston and Jalen acting like a baby, alot was going on in that locker room we weren't privy too...so things like that and dealing with 18-22 years old guys, sometimes things go wrong......but i dont think it meant he wasnt committed to the program or wanted out.

and the vol walk for the Nebraska game worried me personally, the guys didnt look pumped, but they showed up and played well. I mean Barnet was talking the ENTIRE game lol even in the others teams huddle at times, so i dont think the kids gave up on coach and likewise i dont think he has given up....
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I don't think he lost games this year because he wasn't interested. The 2 specific games had more to do with the team not being prepared to play and in the in the instance of Vandy being out adjusted and performed after the half.

I think he is figuring out that you can't talk your way around problems now like he could 3 or 4 years ago and thats a frustration he doesn't enjoy.
 
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#109
#109
BeecherVol said:
I don't think he lost games this year because he wasn't interested. The 2 specific games had more to do with the team not being prepared to play and in the in the instance of Vandy being out adjusted and performed after the half.

I think he is figuring out that you can't talk your way around problems now like he could 3 or 4 years ago and thats a frustration he doesn't enjoy.
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agree with that for sure...
 
#112
#112
VolFreakJosh said:
I've noticed something interesting with this whole season and current OC search. The preseason expectations were very high this 2016-2017 season. We easily should have won the East and faced Bama in the SEC Championship even though we'd likely lose but most of can agree that we would have been happy since we did meet expectations.

After the inexcusable losses to Vandy & South Carolina, the media has constantly bashed Butch which he deserved after basically not owning up to his mistakes and tried to use his unique "coach speak" his way around it.

Since Debord left to go to Indiana, even though the hire hasn't been made yet, Butch hasn't even gave indications that he's willing to make a splash hire to save his job next season. He's not given any indication that he'll hand the keys over to a big time OC and let him run the ship. Having Coach Z and Larry Scott as a possible candidate that's not even had experience as an OC? I mean really? One word: Stubborn!

When Butch took this job, did he honestly think he would walk in and his ego wouldn't get in the way of everything? When you're a HC at a big time program at Tennessee, you can't be a control freak and not hire necessary coaches to help your defense & offense get better especially with your job on the line. I mean I've been a Butch supporter from day one but right now, I can't support a guy thats not willing to do whatever it takes to win.

Is Butch feeling the heat and just staying quiet or is he really trying to screw this up and collect his buyout after the end of next season if expectations are not met yet once again? At this point, I'm really questioning if he wants to continue to be the HC here at Tennessee.
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#113
#113
VolFreakJosh said:
I've noticed something interesting with this whole season and current OC search. The preseason expectations were very high this 2016-2017 season. We easily should have won the East and faced Bama in the SEC Championship even though we'd likely lose but most of can agree that we would have been happy since we did meet expectations.

After the inexcusable losses to Vandy & South Carolina, the media has constantly bashed Butch which he deserved after basically not owning up to his mistakes and tried to use his unique "coach speak" his way around it.

Since Debord left to go to Indiana, even though the hire hasn't been made yet, Butch hasn't even gave indications that he's willing to make a splash hire to save his job next season. He's not given any indication that he'll hand the keys over to a big time OC and let him run the ship. Having Coach Z and Larry Scott as a possible candidate that's not even had experience as an OC? I mean really? One word: Stubborn!

When Butch took this job, did he honestly think he would walk in and his ego wouldn't get in the way of everything? When you're a HC at a big time program at Tennessee, you can't be a control freak and not hire necessary coaches to help your defense & offense get better especially with your job on the line. I mean I've been a Butch supporter from day one but right now, I can't support a guy thats not willing to do whatever it takes to win.

Is Butch feeling the heat and just staying quiet or is he really trying to screw this up and collect his buyout after the end of next season if expectations are not met yet once again? At this point, I'm really questioning if he wants to continue to be the HC here at Tennessee.
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I don't think Butch really feels he needs to make a "splash hire", only a tweak here and there. I expect Butch will get a QB coach and possibly replace the DB coach. He will elevate Scott or Azzani to OC and that will be it. He feels this is all that is needed to get us to the East champion. :blink::blink::blink::blink:
 
#117
#117
savannahfan said:
Who he should pick???? Don't you think its more "Who he can hire"?
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However you'd like to word it works for me. There's a lot of out of work coaches, like Helfrich and a lot of highly qualified NFL coaches too.

How many jobs at P5 schools like UT are available compared to the volume of out of work coaches...that's where I'm coming from.
 
#120
#120
VolFreakJosh said:
I've noticed something interesting with this whole season and current OC search. The preseason expectations were very high this 2016-2017 season. We easily should have won the East and faced Bama in the SEC Championship even though we'd likely lose but most of can agree that we would have been happy since we did meet expectations.

After the inexcusable losses to Vandy & South Carolina, the media has constantly bashed Butch which he deserved after basically not owning up to his mistakes and tried to use his unique "coach speak" his way around it.

Since Debord left to go to Indiana, even though the hire hasn't been made yet, Butch hasn't even gave indications that he's willing to make a splash hire to save his job next season. He's not given any indication that he'll hand the keys over to a big time OC and let him run the ship. Having Coach Z and Larry Scott as a possible candidate that's not even had experience as an OC? I mean really? One word: Stubborn!

When Butch took this job, did he honestly think he would walk in and his ego wouldn't get in the way of everything? When you're a HC at a big time program at Tennessee, you can't be a control freak and not hire necessary coaches to help your defense & offense get better especially with your job on the line. I mean I've been a Butch supporter from day one but right now, I can't support a guy thats not willing to do whatever it takes to win.

Is Butch feeling the heat and just staying quiet or is he really trying to screw this up and collect his buyout after the end of next season if expectations are not met yet once again? At this point, I'm really questioning if he wants to continue to be the HC here at Tennessee.
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This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on here and there has been tons of moronic things to choose from.
 
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#121
#121
VolFreakJosh said:
I've noticed something interesting with this whole season and current OC search. The preseason expectations were very high this 2016-2017 season. We easily should have won the East and faced Bama in the SEC Championship even though we'd likely lose but most of can agree that we would have been happy since we did meet expectations.

After the inexcusable losses to Vandy & South Carolina, the media has constantly bashed Butch which he deserved after basically not owning up to his mistakes and tried to use his unique "coach speak" his way around it.

Since Debord left to go to Indiana, even though the hire hasn't been made yet, Butch hasn't even gave indications that he's willing to make a splash hire to save his job next season. He's not given any indication that he'll hand the keys over to a big time OC and let him run the ship. Having Coach Z and Larry Scott as a possible candidate that's not even had experience as an OC? I mean really? One word: Stubborn!

When Butch took this job, did he honestly think he would walk in and his ego wouldn't get in the way of everything? When you're a HC at a big time program at Tennessee, you can't be a control freak and not hire necessary coaches to help your defense & offense get better especially with your job on the line. I mean I've been a Butch supporter from day one but right now, I can't support a guy thats not willing to do whatever it takes to win.

Is Butch feeling the heat and just staying quiet or is he really trying to screw this up and collect his buyout after the end of next season if expectations are not met yet once again? At this point, I'm really questioning if he wants to continue to be the HC here at Tennessee.
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NO, I just called and asked him. He said he wishes he had stayed at Cincinnati. He thought coming to Tennessee was going to be great. He didn't realize how many idiotic fans were here. He said though he would love to talk to "VolFreakJosh" first and get his opinion on whether or not the fans are really this idiotic or are they just kidding.

He also said he wants to hire an OC that most fans will not like and say that he made a mistake, and didn't go after the best OC in the country whoever the fans think that is.
 
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#122
#122
By the way OP, why do you assume a "splash" hire is the only thing that saves his job. What even makes you think his job needs saving. You make a lot of assumptions.
 
#123
#123
This post makes no sense. Any coach that comes here after the previous two that we had, the messes thay they left and all the scrutiny that comes with the job absolutely wants to be here.
 
#124
#124
I would also like to add people quickly forgot just how far down we had to go down our coaching list just to get Butch...and if it wasn't for Manning who knows who would be our head coach now...Just glad Butch saw Tennessee as a destination job and wanted the job after several coaches turned us down
 
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#125
#125
QuickSmurf said:
This post makes no sense. Any coach that comes here after the previous two that we had, the messes thay they left and all the scrutiny that comes with the job absolutely wants to be here.
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I'm not sure he really understood what scrutiny was until the last 2 years.

The best case for him was a rebuild. It bought him 2 scrutiny free years for the most part.

I don't doubt he wanted to come here. The $ alone was worth the shot.
 
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