Does CBJ really want to be here?

#52
#52
jakez4ut said:
As it was happening and I was listening to it on TV I just thought it was funny that the fans were booing. And I think honestly for most of the fans it was more of a joke than anything else.

Really, it's not like there was anything to boo-boo up 35 to nothing.

I think, rather, that was more insight into Butch's overall personality and insecurity than anything else.
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Totally agree. Most fans were booing in jest. They would have booed Saban. Says much more about the Butch state of mind.
 
#53
#53
Learning to mature and be patient is a very difficult thing to do especially as Tennessee fans that want to Win it all now.

I keep trying to remind myself of 1 thing at times like this.

Dabo, he now has Clemson purring along like a fine tuned machine and that includes doing very well recruiting.

I will not be surprised if Clemson beats alaBummer, not after watching their 1st playoff game.

The powers that be hung on with Dabo and it's now been 15 years of slowly improving and learning to get it all together the right ways.

I'd bet that right now Clemson and all their fans would riot if Dabo tried to leave and they'll pay him and his coaching staff whatever they want to stay at Clemson.

I do NOT want it to take 15 years but if it takes a few more and we make the playoffs and have a legit shot at the National Championship will learning to be patient and stop bashing buTch, his coaches and our players every single day for anything and nothing will it be worth it then?

Other than nick saTan how many other coaches are out there that are a guaranteed WIN to get us to the Playoffs if we threw the bank at them?

The only reason saTan Won fast at alaBubba is because the coaching staff before him were good recruiters so when Nick got there the player roster was already a good 2 deep and saTan didn't have to do a complete rebuild.

saTan also hires really good recruiters that can also do a little coaching.

Urban CRYer also walked into a good player roster at the Gators and then he ran away when things started going down hill.

He then got lucky and walked in with a really good player roster when the OSU SUCKeyes coach got fired and he took over.

Finding the right coaching staff that are also really good recruiters is NOT a easy or a fast thing to do.

I'll soon be 63 years old so I don't have a lot of years left and I want another SEC Championship or 2 before I go and I really want another National Championship before I go.

I damn sure do NOT want the rest of my years to be starting all over again and be a laughing stock of college football, NEVER!

I hope and pray that buTch can get things rolling along like Dabo and Clemson now does and I hope my beloved Vols can get it done real soon.

VFL...GBO!!!
 
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#54
#54
UT Hill Man said:
Maybe not if his alleged "f*** them all" comment is true.
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Glad he said it. You idiots can't see how far we've come. I hope if he is fired we hire Dooley to remind you. We are to the point we can beat any team in the east. We need to put it together. The knock on Dabo was he couldn't win at Clemson. He changed that after like 8 years. You guys can't see we are close. You just see that greener grass. Unless it's Meyer or Saban you want, it ain't greener.
 
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#55
#55
I see some similarities in Butch and Dabo, but I do not think that means Butch is the next Dabo.

Dabo took over mid-season after Bowden resigned in 2008, he won 10 games and the ACC title in his full third year as Clemson's coach and has won more then 10 games ever since at Clemson. And Clemson was not a national powerhouse at the time nor did Bowden leave the roster stacked with elite talent. By his fourth full year he was 40-21 (.656) at Clemson. Butch has taken big strides at Tennessee and I saw genuine progress in his first three years, this season I saw a step back. We also lost the SEC East and Sugar Bowl to USC and Vandy. In Butch's four years at Tennessee he is 2-2 against Vandy and 30-21 (.588) overall.

I know "clemsoning" was a thing and he always seemed to lose a random game during the season, but Dabo learned from his mistakes. He relinquished some control over his program and allowed great coordinators to do their jobs which translated to great on-field success. I'm seeing nothing about Butch that makes me think he has even acknowledged his mistakes, let alone tried to fix them or allow our coaches to do their jobs. If he begins to learn from his mistakes and makes the necessary decisions Tennessee needs to be successful then it will restore my faith in him. But right now I'm concerned. However, I do believe he deserves some more time for everything he has done for our program. I hope he gets it turned around quickly.
 
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#56
#56
UT Hill Man said:
Maybe not if his alleged "f*** them all" comment is true.
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Most of the fans deserved to be cursed out. Why they act indignant is beyond me. Y'all run your mouth and complain non-stop, and when the guy reacts y'all grab your precious pearls and faint. Limp wrist wussies.
 
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#57
#57
VolFreakJosh said:
I've noticed something interesting with this whole season and current OC search. The preseason expectations were very high this 2016-2017 season. We easily should have won the East and faced Bama in the SEC Championship even though we'd likely lose but most of can agree that we would have been happy since we did meet expectations.

After the inexcusable losses to Vandy & South Carolina, the media has constantly bashed Butch which he deserved after basically not owning up to his mistakes and tried to use his unique "coach speak" his way around it.

Since Debord left to go to Indiana, even though the hire hasn't been made yet, Butch hasn't even gave indications that he's willing to make a splash hire to save his job next season. He's not given any indication that he'll hand the keys over to a big time OC and let him run the ship. Having Coach Z and Larry Scott as a possible candidate that's not even had experience as an OC? I mean really? One word: Stubborn!

When Butch took this job, did he honestly think he would walk in and his ego wouldn't get in the way of everything? When you're a HC at a big time program at Tennessee, you can't be a control freak and not hire necessary coaches to help your defense & offense get better especially with your job on the line. I mean I've been a Butch supporter from day one but right now, I can't support a guy thats not willing to do whatever it takes to win.

Is Butch feeling the heat and just staying quiet or is he really trying to screw this up and collect his buyout after the end of next season if expectations are not met yet once again? At this point, I'm really questioning if he wants to continue to be the HC here at Tennessee.
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You are all wrong.
 
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#59
#59
pismonque said:
I didn't think he was trying to get the players to be mad at the fans but just to ignore the boos and stay up.

EDIT: Maybe I read it a little differently because I tend to be a bit foul-mouthed myself (at least in non-professional settings) so I interpret "f*** all them" as "forget all them".

It's like if I'm putting up Christmas lights on my house and my wife thinks multi-colored lights would be better than all white lights because "people might see it as boring and monochromatic." I might say, "F*** them, let's do what we think is pretty" but I don't mean that in any negative way to other people, but rather that we should disregard what others think and do what we feel is best.

Let's call it a (foul) language barrier. :)
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that's exactly how he meant it. i mean, what was he supposed to do? not do something to get the teams attention away from the absolutely unnecessary boo's at that moment? the fans in the stadium are the ones that gave him that tough choice to have to go against his own adages and get pissed off a little for the team.
 
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#60
#60
His comment was not directed at the fans. He was talking into the headset to the other coaches so his explanation of it makes more sense. Though honestly I felt like saying the same thing to the other fans at that point in time.

The whole incident is a prime example of the media looking for anything they can to be dramatic.
 
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#61
#61
Hiring a strong AD needs to be priority one. I think being stuck in this transitional period and the lingering uncertainty has to be frustrating for not only Butch but the entire athletic department. It's just another stressful situation added onto the pile of an already stressful job. I truly believe that whomever is hired as AD will be in full support of Butch, but perhaps can provide some guidance for him in certain situations that he hasn't been getting. Butch has essentially been learning on the job since he arrived here and while many feel the SEC isnt the place to do that, we are 4+ years invested in CBJ and we've seen his passion, his work ethic , and the progress our program has made since he arrived. Now we're all just waiting to see if he can take that next step as a coach . A strong AD hire can help him get there.
 
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#62
#62
VolFreakJosh said:
I've noticed something interesting with this whole season and current OC search. The preseason expectations were very high this 2016-2017 season. We easily should have won the East and faced Bama in the SEC Championship even though we'd likely lose but most of can agree that we would have been happy since we did meet expectations.

After the inexcusable losses to Vandy & South Carolina, the media has constantly bashed Butch which he deserved after basically not owning up to his mistakes and tried to use his unique "coach speak" his way around it.

Since Debord left to go to Indiana, even though the hire hasn't been made yet, Butch hasn't even gave indications that he's willing to make a splash hire to save his job next season. He's not given any indication that he'll hand the keys over to a big time OC and let him run the ship. Having Coach Z and Larry Scott as a possible candidate that's not even had experience as an OC? I mean really? One word: Stubborn!

When Butch took this job, did he honestly think he would walk in and his ego wouldn't get in the way of everything? When you're a HC at a big time program at Tennessee, you can't be a control freak and not hire necessary coaches to help your defense & offense get better especially with your job on the line. I mean I've been a Butch supporter from day one but right now, I can't support a guy thats not willing to do whatever it takes to win.

Is Butch feeling the heat and just staying quiet or is he really trying to screw this up and collect his buyout after the end of next season if expectations are not met yet once again? At this point, I'm really questioning if he wants to continue to be the HC here at Tennessee.
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Ridiculous.
Almost any head coach is an alpha, and they want to suceed. That same personality that drives them is also the one that makes it hard for them to take criticism and correction. Jones either wants to be a $4million coach or he doesn't. It comes with the territory. Google Bret Belima and you'll see articles just as critical if not more than the Haney article. UT fans need to stop living in the bubble that they are they only difficult and demanding fans. Even Vandy and UK fire under performing coaches.

If that's Butch's attitude then he picked the wrong line of work and will never coach at the elite level again.
 
#63
#63
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Totally agree. Most fans were booing in jest. They would have booed Saban. Says much more about the Butch state of mind.
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Yea, bu the difference is that BAMA FANS wouldn't boo Saban in that instance, and they aren't the sharpest humans by far. What does that say about our fans?

You have to know football. Everyone that has ever followed the game, knows you take the points in that instance. You never give away the momentum, especially before the half.
 
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#64
#64
MiramarVol said:
Yea, bu the difference is that BAMA FANS wouldn't boo Saban in that instance, and they aren't the sharpest humans by far. What does that say about our fans?

You have to know football. Everyone that has ever followed the game, knows you take the points in that instance. You never give away the momentum, especially before the half.
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You do realize this is only one of a large number of questionable calls. We don't have faith in butch because in his decision making he hasn't instilled confidence.
A number of us think he is a good recruiter/face man but question his game time judgement.
To succeed he will have to surround himself with the most knowledgable coordinators he can muster. I honestly believe they determine his fate. This oc hire MUST be a home run. No in house candidate has that kind of experience developing qb's and calling plays. If he makes an underwhelming hire- he is done. That means UT will struggle which none of us want,
He must put his ego aside and pick a offensive guru to lead that part of the game
 
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#65
#65
Wasn't directed at fans. Saw it live. FanBuzz idiot took it out of context. He was still venting about what he thought was bad calls by the refs. Which is not uncommon.
Go find another myth to chew on.
 
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#66
#66
Vol$_Deep_11_9 said:
Had every right to do so IMO that's a different conversation though
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He had every right to say "F em all" to the fans/supporters of the program that make his $4mm salary possible....on the sideline of a game for all to see? Respectfully disagreee.
 
#67
#67
Orangedogsrule said:
Wasn't directed at fans. Saw it live. FanBuzz idiot took it out of context. He was still venting about what he thought was bad calls by the refs. Which is not uncommon.
Go find another myth to chew on.
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Don't think so. Not buying it.
 
#68
#68
This thread went from talking about CBJ "want" to coach at UT....to an all out breakdown of the "F them all" comment during the Tech game....with some acting like they didn't see it or hear about it.....when I'm pretty sure there were 1000+ posts on VN after he said it and it was headline material across the SEC for a while. We are consistent I'll say that.
 
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#69
#69
Orange&White said:
It's not a question on if he wants to be here or not, obviously this is as big as it gets. He continuously stresses how he wants to be at Tennessee.

However, the problem is that he tries to control every facet of the program. While that may work in the MAC or American, it will not in the SEC. You have to be surrounded by a great staff and trust and allow them to do their jobs. When he has to micromanage every aspect of our program and cannot shut it off, that is a problem. Also, I honestly believe our staff is no where near the caliber of several SEC schools, bluntly we have a lot of guys who do not belong in the SEC, other SEC teams didn't want, or were fired by other top programs. We have to be able to develop players better and teach them the game of football from a fundamental standpoint. We have to put our players in the best position to succeed. I wholeheartedly believe coaching decisions cost us the USC and Vandy games. Until Butch begins making these necessary changes and hiring the best coaches available, not his friends, there will be no progress at Tennessee. I know Shoop had a bad year, but Butch hiring Shoop was a move in the right direction and gives me faith that he will make a good hire this time too.

Also, I think a lot of Butch's frustration comes from the fact that he honestly believes he is doing everything right at Tennessee and we are just a bunch of entitled, whiney fans who do not appreciate him and it hurts his feelings. I am not an insider nor do I know what goes on behind closed doors, but it appears that Butch is happy with being 9-4 and getting to bowl games. Now I appreciate what he has done with our program, especially from where we have been, but it does not overcome the inexcusable decisions made throughout the year. It does not explain the failed expectations and the reoccurring problems that hinder our program.

Another thing that upsets me is his reference to winning 15 of our last 19 games. While that sounds great, it includes losses to Alabama, Vandy, and USC. Also, what have we accomplished in that time frame? We gave away the SEC East, the Sugar Bowl, and ultimately ended up MCB champions. We have high expectations here and we expect more from our team and coach. We all know how annoying his comments and cliches are, I just hope inside he truly knows that Tennessee deserves better than that. These next decisions he makes will show us if he truly does or not.
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It also includes wins against Florida, the team we had been unable to beat for 11 straight years, and UGA same year, which does not occur on the regular in modernity. Not a sunshine pumper but there were A LOT of regular VN posters missing the week following that Florida win they said couldn't happen, but did, on CBJ's watch.
 
#70
#70
It isn't just Tennessee fans. All major programs have fans that are ridiculous. You'll find some Bama fans that aren't happy with Saban.
 
#71
#71
If butch leaves he'll take a job at a smaller program with few expectations---he doesn't like all the demands in a high profile SEC job. He'll have millions banked from UT so he can take a salary of a couple of million and be OK.
 
#73
#73
Orange&White said:
Another thing that upsets me is his reference to winning 15 of our last 19 games. While that sounds great, it includes losses to Alabama, Vandy, and USC. Also, what have we accomplished in that time frame? We gave away the SEC East, the Sugar Bowl, and ultimately ended up MCB champions. We have high expectations here and we expect more from our team and coach. We all know how annoying his comments and cliches are, I just hope inside he truly knows that Tennessee deserves better than that. These next decisions he makes will show us if he truly does or not.
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Honestly, I believe if he had (from day 1) been say it just the opposite, then I, at least, would be defending the players and saying myself:

"but coach, enough with the losses to vandy and sce, we just won 15 of the last 19 games, Coach, don't be so tough on the Program Coach -- come on Coach, we can do it -- I know Coach, enough already that we just got pounded by Vandy and SCe -- come on Coach, focus on the good, that we just won 15 of 19, and lay off the constant bickering about the losses to vandy and sce. Coach, while I would never want to hear the HC say it after losses to sce or vandy, let ME as a fan say it -- these guys are on their way to being champions of life because of what you've done for them off-filed, Now just get out there and win a few may games you're supposed to on-field, and I / we've got YOUR back, Coach."
 
#74
#74
I think no. If he can last until all the fans of the Nineties are dead then expectations of those left is much less.:)
 
#75
#75
VolFreakJosh said:
I've noticed something interesting with this whole season and current OC search. The preseason expectations were very high this 2016-2017 season. We easily should have won the East and faced Bama in the SEC Championship even though we'd likely lose but most of can agree that we would have been happy since we did meet expectations.

After the inexcusable losses to Vandy & South Carolina, the media has constantly bashed Butch which he deserved after basically not owning up to his mistakes and tried to use his unique "coach speak" his way around it.

Since Debord left to go to Indiana, even though the hire hasn't been made yet, Butch hasn't even gave indications that he's willing to make a splash hire to save his job next season. He's not given any indication that he'll hand the keys over to a big time OC and let him run the ship. Having Coach Z and Larry Scott as a possible candidate that's not even had experience as an OC? I mean really? One word: Stubborn!

When Butch took this job, did he honestly think he would walk in and his ego wouldn't get in the way of everything? When you're a HC at a big time program at Tennessee, you can't be a control freak and not hire necessary coaches to help your defense & offense get better especially with your job on the line. I mean I've been a Butch supporter from day one but right now, I can't support a guy thats not willing to do whatever it takes to win.

Is Butch feeling the heat and just staying quiet or is he really trying to screw this up and collect his buyout after the end of next season if expectations are not met yet once again? At this point, I'm really questioning if he wants to continue to be the HC here at Tennessee.
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How about we let him actually hire someone before we roast him for supposedly considering lesser name folks...some on staff...who, regardless of whether the will get the job, should be granted an interview because they are part of the program.

He may not like negative press that goes along w/ losing to Vandy, but I see no indication he doesn't want to be here... and pretty much nonsense. BTW, we all knew there were rumors, as discussed on here, that Debord would retire at Y/E, as Jones and Debord said was true...but now because they said it, there's some big ulterior motive???
 
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