Dobbs is not the answer

[KBVol]

He is not a more accurate passer than Tee. That is absolutely crazy.

So, I'll quickly take documented, objective statistics over your opinion. Like you said, stats are pesky things....

Dobbs....59.5% passing as a freshman
61.5% passing as a sophomore

Tee.... 57.3% passing as a junior in 1998
54.1% passing as a senior in 1999

We can surely both agree that Tee played on much better, much more successful teams with a much better OL and many more talented, elite offensive playmakers around him.....can't we?

 

[DaddyChad]

Dobbs isn't quite the world beater we thought he was at this point. IDK why we can't say that he really struggled this game versus Vandy. Sure there are plenty of excuses like his Oline sucked, his WRs were banged up BUT in the end he missed a lot of passes BADLY. I'm not saying he won't get there but I think we can at least see what Jones was saying about the accuracy issues.

 

[VOL6479]

It all goes back to the o line if they are improved next season the qb play should be better.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

So, I'll quickly take documented, objective statistics over your opinion. Like you said, stats are pesky things....

Dobbs....59.5% passing as a freshman
61.5% passing as a sophomore

Tee.... 57.3% passing as a junior in 1998
54.1% passing as a senior in 1999

We can surely both agree that Tee played on much better, much more successful teams with a much better OL and many more talented, elite offensive playmakers around him.....can't we?

Yes, and we can also agree that Dobbs stats are a bit misleading in that the large majority of his pass completions have been out in the flat on WR screens and swing passes. Documented stats are not always objective or your friend.

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

Dobbs
61.5%, 11.2 per completion, 3.2% interceptions, 32.7% of throws get first downs, 26.0% (25) of completions gain 15+, 11.5% (11) of completions gain 25+

Worley
62.3%, 10.0 per completion, 3.2% interceptions, 29.8% of throws get first downs, 26.1% (41) of completions 15+, 6.4% (10) of completions gain 25+

The "inaccurate" Dobbs has been more effective than Worley throwing the ball. Then there's the running...

Yeah, but what your stats aren't reflecting is the number of passes out in the flat and swing passes that had yards after catch for Dobbs. If you or anyone else has watched the games you know that those type of passes make up a huge amount of his completion percentage.

Everyone that watches the games know that those stats are misleading.

 

[KBVol]

Yeah. Those pesky stats are hateful.
When you don't have a leg to stand on, you resort to other tactics.

Oh, you mean pesky stats like...

Dobbs, first UT Qb to ever run for 100+ yds and throw for 300 yds in a game....467 total yards and 5 tds

Dobbs, ran for 75 yards and led UT to 181 yds rushing vs an Alabama team that was #1 vs the run in the nation, only allowing 63 ypg at that time.

Dobbs, threw for nearly 200 yds and 2 tds vs Bama coming off the bench vs Bama

Dobbs, completed 70% of his passes for 297 yds and 3 tds vs Kentucky,while leading team to 50 pts in 3 qtrs. Also ran for 50 or so yds and a Td.

Dobbs, as a sophomore, had a higher completion % than Manning as a senior.... 61.5% vs 60.4%

Those enough "pesky stats" for you?

 

[FLSTF-VOL]

Oh, you mean pesky stats like...

Dobbs, first UT Qb to ever run for 100+ yds and throw for 300 yds in a game....467 total yards and 5 tds

Dobbs, ran for 75 yards and led UT to 181 yds rushing vs an Alabama team that was #1 vs the run in the nation, only allowing 63 ypg at that time.

Dobbs, threw for nearly 200 yds and 2 tds vs Bama coming off the bench vs Bama

Dobbs, completed 70% of his passes for 297 yds and 3 tds vs Kentucky,while leading team to 50 pts in 3 qtrs. Also ran for 50 or so yds and a Td.

Dobbs, as a sophomore, had a higher completion % than Manning as a senior.... 61.5% vs 60.4%

Those enough "pesky stats" for you?

We get it. In your mind Dobbs is the next coming all word QB and there is nothing wrong with that. I love your enthusiasm. Dobbs may very well turn out to be that QB.

But please keep in mind that while you are convinced that you are right and DTO is wrong, he is just as convinced that he is right and you are wrong. The fact is that the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. It really is ok to have differing opinions and views.

Look at it this way and maybe everyone can agree.

Dobbs can run like a deer and is a dynamic playmaker on the ground.

For the most part he makes sound decisions and runs the offense effectively.

Very efficient in the short passing game.

Has accuracy issues with the intermediate and long passing game.

Does that pretty much sum it up?

 

[VOL6479]

Oh, you mean pesky stats like...

Dobbs, first UT Qb to ever run for 100+ yds and throw for 300 yds in a game....467 total yards and 5 tds

Dobbs, ran for 75 yards and led UT to 181 yds rushing vs an Alabama team that was #1 vs the run in the nation, only allowing 63 ypg at that time.

Dobbs, threw for nearly 200 yds and 2 tds vs Bama coming off the bench vs Bama

Dobbs, completed 70% of his passes for 297 yds and 3 tds vs Kentucky,while leading team to 50 pts in 3 qtrs. Also ran for 50 or so yds and a Td.

Dobbs, as a sophomore, had a higher completion % than Manning as a senior.... 61.5% vs 60.4%

Those enough "pesky stats" for you?

Stats are also different because of era a player played in and the system they ran. I don't know if Dobbs would be any better or worse if he ran the pro style offense Martin did I think he might be worse. If there was a spread read option offense back when Tee played he would have thrived in it.

 

[omghulkhands]

In this thread: A bunch of people that have already made up their mind one way or another and will not budge, regardless.

 

['Boro-vol]

In this thread: A bunch of people that have already made up their mind one way or another and will not budge, regardless.

True...the thing is though, nobody is necessarily trying to change anybody's mind. The problem is when a differing point of view is expressed, the opposing side attacks it....even though we are all fans if the same team.

It happens both ways. Things would be much simpler, though thoroughly boring, if we all were just sheep.

 

[KBVol]

Yes, and we can also agree that Dobbs stats are a bit misleading in that the large majority of his pass completions have been out in the flat on WR screens and swing passes. Documented stats are not always objective or your friend.

So Dobbs is the only qb in the SEC that throws a lot of wr screens, bubble screens, hitch and slant routes? Have you seen modern offenses who employ the short passing game? Those flat routes are a big part of the passing with every sec team who doesn't have a player named Amari Cooper, LaQuon Treadwell and Sammie Coates/Duke Williams. Plus, Dobbs plays behind arguably the worst OL in the nation, certainly by far the worst in the conference. And which of our wideouts has had a remotely good season that even got near preseason expectations this year? The only healthy, reliable WR that got near expectations was 5'8" Pig Howard.....boy that's a helluva WR corp to throw to....why, guys just running free all over the damn place.

Does Dobbs need to improve his consistency and accuracy? Absolutely, no doubt about it. He'll make an outstanding 20 yd throw into a tight window, followed by missing an open receiver running a 7 yard out. I get it. But all you anti-Dobbites consistently talk about the kid like he's completing 40% of his passes and hasn't shown excellent flashes of being able to accurately throw darts, especially in the middle of the field (see Bama and SCar games). He's literally the primary reason why we're headed to a bowl game and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna defend the kid vs guys that like the OP who started this ridiculous thread and wanna constantly say the kid sucks.

 

[butchna]

So, I'll quickly take documented, objective statistics over your opinion. Like you said, stats are pesky things....

Dobbs....59.5% passing as a freshman
61.5% passing as a sophomore

Tee.... 57.3% passing as a junior in 1998
54.1% passing as a senior in 1999

We can surely both agree that Tee played on much better, much more successful teams with a much better OL and many more talented, elite offensive playmakers around him.....can't we?

Jamal Lewis...Travis Henry(Stephens)...Peerless Price?....hacks.

 

[ericpVOL4LIFE]

this thread is sponsored by the Riley Ferguson for Heisman Committee

 

[KBVol]

Yes, and we can also agree that Dobbs stats are a bit misleading in that the large majority of his pass completions have been out in the flat on WR screens and swing passes. Documented stats are not always objective or your friend.

Those stats are much more indicative of Dobbs' actual play than of DTO's opinion that he just sucks. That was the point.

 

[KBVol]

Jamal Lewis...Travis Henry(Stephens)...Peerless Price?....hacks.

Not to mention that Cedrick Wilson, who went on to a 7 yr NFL career with the Niners and Steelers, evidently was a real stinker, too.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

So, I'll quickly take documented, objective statistics over your opinion. Like you said, stats are pesky things....

Dobbs....59.5% passing as a freshman
61.5% passing as a sophomore

Tee.... 57.3% passing as a junior in 1998
54.1% passing as a senior in 1999

We can surely both agree that Tee played on much better, much more successful teams with a much better OL and many more talented, elite offensive playmakers around him.....can't we?

You are interjecting fact into the discussion. Plainly a foul.... especially with DTO.

 

[shoney]

So Dobbs is the only qb in the SEC that throws a lot of wr screens, bubble screens, hitch and slant routes? Have you seen modern offenses who employ the short passing game? Those flat routes are a big part of the passing with every sec team who doesn't have a player named Amari Cooper, LaQuon Treadwell and Sammie Coates/Duke Williams. Plus, Dobbs plays behind arguably the worst OL in the nation, certainly by far the worst in the conference. And which of our wideouts has had a remotely good season that even got near preseason expectations this year? The only healthy, reliable WR that got near expectations was 5'8" Pig Howard.....boy that's a helluva WR corp to throw to....why, guys just running free all over the damn place.

Does Dobbs need to improve his consistency and accuracy? Absolutely, no doubt about it. He'll make an outstanding 20 yd throw into a tight window, followed by missing an open receiver running a 7 yard out. I get it. But all you anti-Dobbites consistently talk about the kid like he's completing 40% of his passes and hasn't shown excellent flashes of being able to accurately throw darts, especially in the middle of the field (see Bama and SCar games). He's literally the primary reason why we're headed to a bowl game and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna defend the kid vs guys that like the OP who started this ridiculous thread and wanna constantly say the kid sucks.

Yea, I remember when Manning and Tee were here people got mad at Cutcliffe and Sanders for running too many WR screens:realmad:. Remember the game winner in the 97 SEC championship game? Look at the NFL now, teams throw a 5 or 6 screens a game at the very least. Short passes have always been part of the game.

 

[American Pig]

Dobbs
61.5%, 11.2 per completion, 3.2% interceptions, 32.7% of throws get first downs, 26.0% (25) of completions gain 15+, 11.5% (11) of completions gain 25+

Worley
62.3%, 10.0 per completion, 3.2% interceptions, 29.8% of throws get first downs, 26.1% (41) of completions 15+, 6.4% (10) of completions gain 25+

The "inaccurate" Dobbs has been more effective than Worley throwing the ball. Then there's the running...

Dobbs passing stats are roughly equivalent to Worley except that Worley was throwing downfield, while Dobbs stats are padded with short screens and shovel passes that are little more than handoffs.

Dobbs is an effective runner, but to deny the problems with passing accuracy is just a denial of history. Hopefully, he comes around. He was certainly better for about two games before the historically real Dobbs returned.

 

[KBVol]

Yea, I remember when Manning and Tee were here people got mad at Cutcliffe and Sanders for running too many WR screens:realmad:. Remember the game winner in the 97 SEC championship game? Look at the NFL now, teams throw a 5 or 6 screens a game at the very least. Short passes have always been part of the game.

Absolutely, good points.

It's always been a very big part of Peyton's passing game in the NFL. Difference with him of course is that he's always thrown a very good, very accurate deep ball to compliment the short passing game. Dobbs hasn't shown that ability yet but then again neither did Worley. It's definitely the biggest part of his game that he's got to improve to take the next step. If he does, I think he can be an elite dual threat SEC QB.

 

[American Pig]

Yea, I remember when Manning and Tee were here people got mad at Cutcliffe and Sanders for running too many WR screens:realmad:. Remember the game winner in the 97 SEC championship game? Look at the NFL now, teams throw a 5 or 6 screens a game at the very least. Short passes have always been part of the game.

Manning and Tee could hit the long ball and mid-range passes. Manning and Tee were not limited to hitting receivers behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[KBVol]

Dobbs passing stats are roughly equivalent to Worley except that Worley was throwing downfield, while Dobbs stats are padded with short screens and shovel passes that are little more than handoffs.

Dobbs is an effective runner, but to deny the problems with passing accuracy is just a denial of history. Hopefully, he comes around. He was certainly better for about two games before the historically real Dobbs returned.

Really? The evidence says otherwise....Dobbs has actually averaged a full half yard more per attempt this year than Worley.....6.9 ypa vs 6.3ypa for Justin, so your statement, as usual, is patently false. And Justin had North to throw to in all his games and another opening game starter Josh Smith to throw to for 3 games. Justin also got to throw against our OOC patsies while Josh, just like last year, gets "thrown to the wolves"(one of your favorite phrases) vs Bama his first game.

 

[LittleDTO]

Oh, you mean pesky stats like...

Dobbs, first UT Qb to ever run for 100+ yds and throw for 300 yds in a game....467 total yards and 5 tds

Dobbs, ran for 75 yards and led UT to 181 yds rushing vs an Alabama team that was #1 vs the run in the nation, only allowing 63 ypg at that time.

Dobbs, threw for nearly 200 yds and 2 tds vs Bama coming off the bench vs Bama

Dobbs, completed 70% of his passes for 297 yds and 3 tds vs Kentucky,while leading team to 50 pts in 3 qtrs. Also ran for 50 or so yds and a Td.

Dobbs, as a sophomore, had a higher completion % than Manning as a senior.... 61.5% vs 60.4%

Those enough "pesky stats" for you?

What happened when teams figured out that Dobbs can't throw down field?

Secondly, it is EXTREMELY well documented, that the kid is inaccurate. Even the coaches have said so.

Did Dobbs come in and fill the position for the remainder of the season decently well....yes.

Is he the future? IMO no. I think one of the Freshman coming in have an excellent chance of beating him out.

Hell, Dobbs started the last few games last year and ended up 3rd on the depth chart at the beginning of the season.

I get it......you love Dobbs, but to deny his accuracy issue, flies in the face of reality and even what the coaches say. Anyone with half a football brain can see that he is extremely limited in what he can do as a QB. He makes our offense very one dimensional.

 

[omghulkhands]

Really? The evidence says otherwise....Dobbs has actually averaged a full half yard more per attempt this year than Worley.....6.9 ypa vs 6.3ypa for Justin, so your statement, as usual, is patently false. And Justin had North to throw to in all his games and another opening game starter Josh Smith to throw to for 3 games. Justin also got to throw against our OOC patsies while Josh, just like last year, gets "thrown to the wolves"(one of your favorite phrases) vs Bama his first game.

yeah, I don't care what side of this argument you stand on, but to say Worley threw down field more is laughable. He was the king of the screen pass. And as you have demonstrated, the stats back that one up.

If someone said that it was about equal then I could say that it is at least debatable, and that it likely is just what this offense dictates, but to act like Worley is some kind of down field passer compared to Dobbs means people are seeing what they want to see, not what is actually happening.....again check the YPA.

tl:dr =

-Saying Dobbs isn't the future is debatable

-Saying Dobbs is not accurate is debatable

-Saying Worley threw down field more, or better than Dobbs IMO is just flat out not debatable. You can't debate YPA IMO.

 

[shoney]

Manning and Tee could hit the long ball and mid-range passes. Manning and Tee were not limited to hitting receivers behind the line of scrimmage.

How many deep balls would Manning and Tee have completed with this OL and WR's? It's hard to throw the ball down the field when the defense is rushing 3 or 4,getting pressure, and playing coverage. Tee would not have been very good with this OL and WR's, and Dobbs would be a lot better with Tee's OL and WR's. Peyton :question: he's the best ever, so he would have made it work.

 

[papatomany]

Yeah, but what your stats aren't reflecting is the number of passes out in the flat and swing passes that had yards after catch for Dobbs. If you or anyone else has watched the games you know that those type of passes make up a huge amount of his completion percentage.

Everyone that watches the games know that those stats are misleading.

They aren't misleading because it's a comparison of Worley and Dobbs, and Worley also threw an inordinate number of quick screens and, worse, three yard passes to a wideout who had to stand and wait on the ball. Dobbs is averaging more per completion running the same plays. His timing is better on those. You'll notice that Dobbs also has more 25+ plays than Worley with 100 less throws. Doesn't seem likely it's because he's THAT MUCH better than Worley on the quick hitters. (He is better, but THAT MUCH better?) Much more likely it's because when he hits a pass in the 15-25 range, we hear the "yeah, but..." excuses, and forget that they just gained 30 yards on a nicely thrown ball.

He made several plays in the South Carolina game that Worley wouldn't have had a hope of hitting, especially on the big drive at the end. He made wonderful throws in the Alabama game. It's true that he had a bad game throwing against Vandy. It's also true that no receiver could get separation (and no North, no Croom, no Malone), the patchwork offensive line was overmatched, and the coaches panicked. (When the guys aren't open and you have no faith in them making a play, you start trying to throw a perfect ball, which usually is disastrous.)

Bo Wallace was 13 of 30 against Mississippi State. He was also, btw, 13 of 28 against US. I didn't hear "accuracy problems"; I heard "he's not having his best day throwing today". I also didn't see Freeze panic. "Oh, no! What if he throws an interception?!" They ran plays to get receivers more open and kept cranking it. What we do is, stop trying anything past the line of scrimmage. Stop trying anything that might actually work. Cower in our bunker and hope to hang on. It's the same mentality that had Worley starting at the first of the year.