Dick Vermeil's acutal two point conversion chart

#52
#52
carlos86 said:
No Butch had no idea Hurd would go untouched for a 10 yard touchdown. It caught him off guard. They had planned to kick the field goal.
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If you were the coach in that situation and we hadn't scored the TD on 3rd down, wouldn't you kick a FG?
 
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#53
#53
carlos86 said:
Its not ridiculous when Butch Jones has a history all the way back to his coaching days at CMU of making these stupid in game decisions.
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This is comical watching you grasping at anything to rip. It's kind numbingly dumb to rip a playcall that worked perfectly because you think it shouldn't have worked.
 
#55
#55
utvolpj said:
He mentioned multiple factors. They're all right there in the full quote you chopped up. If you're going to call the man a liar at least know what you're talking about
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utvolpj said:
He mentioned multiple factors. They're all right there in the full quote you chopped up. If you're going to call the man a liar at least know what you're talking about
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No I didn't chop anything up, just went to the meat of his comments. Read what he said. He said there were several factors then gave his "chart" as the reason...

"If we did score whether we go for one or two, we have a chart that is pretty standard in football first of all and maps it all."

Everything before and after is all fluff.

I'll firmly stand behind my original assertion that he is was, shall we say, dishonest. And that's not even mentioning the fact that evidently, his "chart" differs from every other chart known to mankind which says you always go for 2 with a 12 point lead because the extra point does you no good mathematically.

Looks like we'll agree to disagree.
 
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#56
#56
GAVol said:
This is comical watching you grasping at anything to rip. It's kind numbingly dumb to rip a playcall that worked perfectly because you think it shouldn't have worked.
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It would be comic if all his history of bad in game decisions going back to CMU and Cincinnati weren't all over twitter today. But it is.
 
#58
#58
carlos86 said:
It would be comic if all his history of bad in game decisions going back to CMU and Cincinnati weren't all over twitter today. But it is.
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Still... You're complaining about a TD playcall that worked perfectly.
 
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#60
#60
GAVol said:
Don't tell anybody in real life you're actually pissed about a touchdown scoring playcall.
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1) I'm not mad that Hurd scored. I'm mad that the offensive staff and Butch were unprepared to go for 2 and make it a 14 point game. They called play to get 3 instead of 6. And almost everyone agrees with that.
 
#61
#61
peerless98 said:
BS! You are a liar for claiming he said that! This is his quote exactly:

“There were a number of reasons, and we were discussing that prior to that drive — if we did score, whether we would go for 1 or 2,” Jones said. “We have a chart that’s pretty standard in football, that kind of maps it out. And then we just felt at that stage in the game, we had great confidence in our defense, of getting off the football field and not allowing them to push the ball down the field.

“So we felt very comfortable with that decision.”
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The first thing he said in the quote was "There were a number of reasons." I personally wouldn't call that fluff. Secondly, he does mention a standard chart they have but he didn't say that they followed it actually. One could assume when he said "and then" that he meant "but then" they had confidence......etc. So there is that theory too. Edit: Sorry, wrong quote peerless. Meant to just have the Butch quote. My bad.
 
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#62
#62
GAVol said:
Still... You're complaining about a TD playcall that worked perfectly.
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GAVol said:
Don't tell anybody in real life you're actually pissed about a touchdown scoring playcall.
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1) I'm not mad that Hurd scored. I'm mad that the offensive staff and Butch were unprepared to go for 2 and make it a 14 point game. They called play to get 3 instead of 6. And almost everyone agrees with that.
 

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#63
#63
utvolpj said:
Only because it doesn't fit your agenda however it was all completely relevant to his choice. You're being, shall we say, dishonest.
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Pot calling the kettle black here pj. You're hellbent on defending Jones so you interpret it the way you want to interpret it, see what you want to see. The fact that he "trusted his defense" has absolutely nothing to do with the simple mathematics of the situation and a long time relied upon chart that Vermeil established years ago. He's saying that was what led him to the decision that he made.

The additional context needed to know for certain that that's what he was saying is found from his comments after he blew the OU game as well, when he stressed the importance of "Analytics" in his decision-making. He said himself that all decisions were based on painstaking analytics that prescribed what decisions were to be taken in each situation....nothing left to chance. So, in that context, when he makes the comment about "well established charts in football" or whatever, that's how you know why he made the decision he did.
 
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#64
#64
carlos86 said:
1) I'm not mad that Hurd scored. I'm mad that the offensive staff and Butch were unprepared to go for 2 and make it a 14 point game. They called play to get 3 instead of 6. And almost everyone agrees with that.
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I believe you're correct and most of the guys just don't want to admit CBJ F'ed up.. I understand they want to believe in him and that's great but most of VN can see thru his bull.. I support this same theory also btw..
 
#65
#65
carlos86 said:
1) I'm not mad that Hurd scored. I'm mad that the offensive staff and Butch were unprepared to go for 2 and make it a 14 point game. They called play to get 3 instead of 6. And almost everyone agrees with that.
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The 2 point argument is one thing. Being upset about the TD call is just surreal.
 
#67
#67
carlos86 said:
1) I'm not mad that Hurd scored. I'm mad that the offensive staff and Butch were unprepared to go for 2 and make it a 14 point game. They called play to get 3 instead of 6. And almost everyone agrees with that.
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Hey. If "almost everyone agrees" that it happened that way ... then it can be etched in stone. It's fact. :huh:
 
#68
#68
bignewt said:
Im jusy saying everybody seems to think its a foregone conclusion that if we went for two we would have gotten it...i for one have zero faith in either coach to make a big play like that succeed.
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That's completely beside the point. If we miss it we're up by 12, which is no worse at that point than 13. Two TD's with the XP's will beat you either way. If you make the 2PC then worst case you're looking at OT.
 
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#70
#70
carlos86 said:
DeBord said this about going for 1 in that situation.
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If this is true then DeBord is an idiot. Duke University published a chart that included estimated possessions remaining in the game and according to that chart, if you're up by 12 you go for 1 only if you think there are 12 or more combined possessions remaining.
 
#71
#71
KBVol said:
Pot calling the kettle black here pj. You're hellbent on defending Jones so you interpret it the way you want to interpret it, see what you want to see. The fact that he "trusted his defense" has absolutely nothing to do with the simple mathematics of the situation and a long time relied upon chart that Vermeil established years ago. He's saying that was what led him to the decision that he made.

The additional context needed to know for certain that that's what he was saying is found from his comments after he blew the OU game as well, when he stressed the importance of "Analytics" in his decision-making. He said himself that all decisions were based on painstaking analytics that prescribed what decisions were to be taken in each situation....nothing left to chance. So, in that context, when he makes the comment about "well established charts in football" or whatever, that's how you know why he made the decision he did.
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Sorry for actually using all the info given to form an idea of what happened. You're so dead set on insulting this staff that you ignore the facts presented. Interesting since you started the whole thing by calling Butch a liar
 
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#72
#72
A man making 3+ million dollars a year to coach a college football team should not need a chart someone made to determine if you kick an extra point and go for 2 point. A little common sense and 3rd grade math lies the answer.
 
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#73
#73
Gramps said:
A man making 3+ million doors a year to coach a college football team should not need a chart someone made to determine if you kick an extra point and go for 2 point. A little common sense and 3rd grade math lies the answer.
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Ridiculous. Being prepared for anything before taking the field is exactly what a person in that situation should do
 
#74
#74
carlos86 said:
1) I'm not mad that Hurd scored. I'm mad that the offensive staff and Butch were unprepared to go for 2 and make it a 14 point game. They called play to get 3 instead of 6. And almost everyone agrees with that.
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Well he!!, if Clay Travis said it, it must be true....
 
#75
#75
utvolpj said:
Sorry for actually using all the info given to form an idea of what happened. You're so dead set on insulting this staff that you ignore the facts presented. Interesting since you started the whole thing by calling Butch a liar
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Exactly! Instead of owning the fact that he is dead wrong, he changes the argument.
 
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