Defending Fulmer

#826
#826
VKAman said:
You really going to tell me that 2001 LSU was more talented than we are?

Someone is having trouble with their math.
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Hey. They were all freshman and sophomores on the second string.
 
#830
#830
pl3 said:
You guys are a waist of time and can't see anything beyond what might be outside the back door. That's what I heard.
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#832
#832
LawVol13 said:
You've posted nothing but garbage. Typical fulmerite.
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Then why have all my projections been proven right as rain?

Why have all your predictions been confined to the ash bin of history? Weren't you telling us that no way Kiffin was going to USC? They don't want him? He wouldn't leave?

Weren't you telling us what a great hire?

Weren't you telling us what a great class 2009 was, and ridiculing me when I said upfront it was between 15 - 20 and could get worse? (Which, of course, it has).

Yes, the "typical garbage" as always happens to be the real world outside the back door.
 
#833
#833
utgibbs said:
Then why have all my projections been proven right as rain?

Why have all your predictions been confined to the ash bin of history? Weren't you telling us that no way Kiffin was going to USC? They don't want him? He wouldn't leave?

Weren't you telling us what a great hire?

Weren't you telling us what a great class 2009 was, and ridiculing me when I said upfront it was between 15 - 20 and could get worse? (Which, of course, it has).

Yes, the "typical garbage" as always happens to be the real world outside the back door.
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It is all about age. JoePa would never be treated this way.
 
#834
#834
Incipient said:
1996 Memphis
2000 Florida
2001 Georgia
2001 LSU
2003 Auburn
2004 Notre Dame
2005 South Carolina
2005 Vanderbilt
2007 Alabama
2008 UCLA
2008 Auburn
2008 Wyoming
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VegasVol said:
That's just complete ignorance. The only teams on that list less talented than us were: 1996 Memphis, 2004 Notre Dame, 2005 Vanderbilt, 2005 South Carolina, 2008 UCLA and 2008 Wyoming. That's a whopping 6 losses over 9 seasons to less talented teams. Only 2 of those losses are bad losses -- Memphis in 1996 and Wyoming after he was fired in 2008. That rate of bad losses is one of the lowest in the SEC over that time period.
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So, we were out-coached by: Rip Scherer, Tyrone Willingham, Steve Spurrier('05), Bobby Johnson, Rick Neuheisel, and Joe Glenn.

And also out-recruited by: Steve Spurrier('00), Jim Donnan, Nick Saban, Tommy Tuberville, and Mike Shula.

Yet Fulmer shouldn't have been fired? You can't have it both ways, either he couldn't coach at the same level as his peers, or he couldn't bring in the athletes. My money is on the former.
 
#836
#836
zjcvols said:
The national title was awesome. I was too young to enjoy it sadly, so maybe I don't understand exactly what that meant to Tennessee.

However, two SEC titles in 17 years doesn't cut it. At least for me. Especially with his talent.

Dickey won two in six years

Majors won three in sixteen years.

Obviously, Bill Battle sucked. Fulmer should have won (at minimum) four SEC titles.
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Too young to enjoy it? That says alot, Im ok with your position on this now. Believe me, if you grew up during the Battle and Majors years as I did, you'd appreciate CPF as much as I do.

Its a generation gap thing, we're cool.
 
#839
#839
Big Orange 1 said:
Too young to enjoy it? That says alot, Im ok with your position on this now. Believe me, if you grew up during the Battle and Majors years as I did, you'd appreciate CPF as much as I do.

Its a generation gap thing, we're cool.
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Indeed. I probably need to go easy on the internet generation prevalent on here.

As I've discovered, there is a BIG gap between those with a living memory of the Johnny era (and I love Johnny, btw) and those who have read about it on the internet.

Everyone alive and kicking at the time knows 1. the quantum leap the team took when Phil became OC, and 2. The subsequent and immediate improvement in the team when Phil became HC.

There was no "rebuilding" time (remember, Kiffin had 7-NFL players on his 2009 team in that year alone, including, if I remember, two - three first rounders) - but mostly because it was already built by Phil.
 
#840
#840
Big Orange 1 said:
Too young to enjoy it? That says alot, Im ok with your position on this now. Believe me, if you grew up during the Battle and Majors years as I did, you'd appreciate CPF as much as I do.

Its a generation gap thing, we're cool.
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Being a devout Fulmerite, most of my arguments are with the under 30's, because all they saw was the demise. A forgivable offense, but if you lived the glory years as an adult you probably don't hate Fulmer. There are exceptions on boths sides however.
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#841
#841
PimpVol said:
Being a devout Fulmerite, most of my arguments are with the under 30's, because all they saw was the demise. A forgivable offense, but if you lived the glory years as an adult you probably don't hate Fulmer. There are exceptions on boths sides however.
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I do not hate Fulmer.

I despise the fact people think he's the only coach in Tennessee's history to have a winning season.

I despise the fans that say he was Tennessee football.

I despise the fans that put him on a pedestal and claim he was Tennessee's "Bowden" or "Paterno".

He was not. He took over a team with a lot of talent and built on it. He had an excellent 9/10 years here. After that, he was a middle of the pack with middle of the pack results.
 
#842
#842
utgibbs said:
Weren't you telling us what a great class 2009 was, and ridiculing me when I said upfront it was between 15 - 20 and could get worse? (Which, of course, it has).
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Going to need a link to this post. I'm 100% sure that's an outright lie.
 
#843
#843
utgibbs said:
There was no "rebuilding" time (remember, Kiffin had 7-NFL players on his 2009 team in that year alone, including, if I remember, two - three first rounders) - but mostly because it was already built by Phil.
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Laughing hysterically about how wonderful it was for Kiffin to be blessed with overachievers like Jon Crompton. Boy he was studriffic in 2008.

To recap, we had 6 players drafted. The highest was a UT legacy that would have been here with pretty much any head coach.

Dan Williams was next, who probably would have been drafted, but his status was elevated by Monte and O.

Hardesty... please. How did Foster do in the draft the year prior? First round, I'd imagine based on how he performed this past NFL season. Oh wait, he went undrafted. I'm sure it would have been different for his backup. Definitely would have still gotten drafted in the second if Phil were here. Definitely.

Chris Scott, much like Ramon Foster (current starter that went undrafted for the Steelers) was a bum in 2008 but our best OL in 2009.
 
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#844
#844
VegasVol said:
Try the fact that he never had 3 seasons, or even 2 seasons, in a row like 2009 & 2010. Try the fact that he bounced back with at least 2 good seasons after every down season. Try the fact that he won 9 or more games in 2 out of his last 3 seasons, 4 out of his last six seasons, and at an even higher rate than that over his history. Try the fact that he never went 3 straight years without a top-3 SEC recruiting class, like we have every single year since he's been fired. Try the fact he never went two straight years completely unranked and without a single win over a top-20 team. And on and on and on...
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Yeah boy, try all of that!
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#845
#845
Phil bounced back from bad seasons because his bad seasons were the result of horrific coaching of very well loaded teams. Big things were expected from the 2002, 2005, and 2008 Vols. The 2003 and 2006 teams didn't suffer from several horrific recruiting classes comprising the majority of the roster as the 2009 team did. Those seasons are not comparable.
 
#846
#846
I think Fulmer is okay. only because he is out as the coach finally. I will add, the talent he had could have won more than one national championship with a better coach, perhaps Spurrier,Saban,etc.
 
#847
#847
You can defend the Fulmer of the 90's all you want. The Fulmer of the 2000's is fair game.
 
#848
#848
VegasVols:
That's just complete ignorance. The only teams on that list less talented than us were: 1996 Memphis, 2004 Notre Dame, 2005 Vanderbilt, 2005 South Carolina, 2008 UCLA and 2008 Wyoming. That's a whopping 6 losses over 9 seasons to less talented teams. Only 2 of those losses are bad losses -- Memphis in 1996 and Wyoming after he was fired in 2008. That rate of bad losses is one of the lowest in the SEC over that time period.

Try the fact that he never had 3 seasons, or even 2 seasons, in a row like 2009 & 2010. Try the fact that he bounced back with at least 2 good seasons after every down season. Try the fact that he won 9 or more games in 2 out of his last 3 seasons, 4 out of his last six seasons, and at an even higher rate than that over his history. Try the fact that he never went 3 straight years without a top-3 SEC recruiting class, like we have every single year since he's been fired. Try the fact he never went two straight years completely unranked and without a single win over a top-20 team. And on and on and on...(End)

Vegas Vol, raining down some serious stupid.

"Try the fact that he never went 3 straight years without a top-3 SEC recruiting class.."
Please explain to me the Top 3 SEC recruiting class of 2007 and how that worked. BTW, what were our recruiting rankings in 2006 and 2008, not to mention where are the beaststuds that Fulmer had committed for 2009 that were going to return us to glory before he was rightly fired?


Jerod Askew
Taj Boyd
Jarvis Giles
Preston Bailey
Ramone Johnson
EJ Abrams Ward
Chris Donald
Kenny O'Neal - 5-star reverse specialist
Donald Langely
Ahmad Paige

"The only teams on that list less talented than us were: 1996 Memphis, 2004 Notre Dame, 2005 Vanderbilt, 2005 South Carolina, 2008 UCLA and 2008 Wyoming."

The stupid is strong. UGA 2001 and LSU 2001 HAVE to be on this list if you admit that we were NC contenders that year. Arkansas 99, 02 UF coached by Ron Zook was a complete blowout at home. Please, for the love of Fulmer, explain how we weren't more talented than Bama in 07, especially after they suspended 5 players just before the game and the game wasn't even close. We lost by 24.
 
#850
#850
justingroves said:
I do not hate Fulmer.

I despise the fact people think he's the only coach in Tennessee's history to have a winning season.

I despise the fans that say he was Tennessee football.

I despise the fans that put him on a pedestal and claim he was Tennessee's "Bowden" or "Paterno".

He was not. He took over a team with a lot of talent and built on it. He had an excellent 9/10 years here. After that, he was a middle of the pack with middle of the pack results.
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I agree completely with the bolded. I don't even care about the middle.

What I despise is that so many think it was some kind of crime to fire a coach who wasn't getting the job done at the end of his tenure because of the success he had at the beginning, so much so that they are still bending truths and slinging mud two coaches later.
 
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