Defending Fulmer

#151
#151
utvolpj said:
more painful than having a losing streak to Vandy?
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Yes. The losing streak to Vandy sucked, but it wasn't at all comparable to the 07 game at UT. Beating Vandy is expected. Beating UT isn't. Although, the Vandy experience was a nice reality check for those of us who thought we were ready to challenge for the conference title. No, the 07 game was like having your heart ripped out.
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#152
#152
PennVol said:
When you saw Fulmer's record against Saban, Meyer, Miles, Richt, Tubberville, and Spurrier the case for defending him becomes insane.
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I am no dyed-in-the-wool Fulmer defender, but winning a national championship (which we seem to have forgotten) means something. Everyone says that Majors was great; but, he did not win a national championship AT Tennessee. Like it or not, TN's most recent glory days are the Fulmer era. If you want to erase those glory years and the bragging rights that ensued, then bash Fulmer.
 
#153
#153
homesweetTN said:
I am no dyed-in-the-wool Fulmer defender, but winning a national championship (which we seem to have forgotten) means something. Everyone says that Majors was great; but, he did not win a national championship AT Tennessee. Like it or not, TN's most recent glory days are the Fulmer era. If you want to erase those glory years and the bragging rights that ensued, then bash Fulmer.
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You can play both sides here by saying "the case for keeping him is insane" (which it is) but "the case for defending him is not insane" (which it isn't, based on the entirety of his tenure).
 
#154
#154
WiseOlVol said:
Yesterday I posted some history about the Vols' football program and posited that we should be embarrassed about where we are.

Embarrassed about what? About the downs of a football program with 100+ years history? For me: disappointed, yes; embarrassed, no. By the way, we were 13-13 since Fulmer was kicked out. I was much much more embarrassed with the 5-7 year culminating at the Wyoming loss than past 2 years. We were making progress in the past 2 years, but we were going down the drain with Fulmer. Now, dispute that.

Some were grateful for the education. Some expressed disdain about my question: Who fires a coach whose record vs. Alabama is 10-5-1?

So TN's record against Alabama is the only measuring stick on How good Fulmer is? And how good Alabama was over that period is irrelevant to you? Let me refresh your memory: Fulmer beat Bama 10 times, and during the same period, Bama had 9 mediocre seasons (no more than 7 wins), and 5 of them were losing seasons, so beating those Bama teams made Fulmer such a football genius?

One fan observed that the post-2004 trajectory of Fulmer's success (failure) warranted the firing. Fair enough. Two losing (no-bowl) seasons in 4 is unacceptable at Tennessee (even with a SEC-E title in '07). Others said UT should have let the coach go after 2005's 5-6 season.

[Should Alabama have fired the Bear after going 6-5 and 6-5-1 in '69 and '70?]

Infatuation with Bama continued huh? By your logic, keeping Bobby Bowden after he finished with 7-6 in 06 and 07 was such a brilliant decision. Wait, 2 more mediocre seasons in 08 and 09, never mind. Again, what a stupid decision to force Bobby out at FSU. He would surely bring FSU back to national prominence!

I am pro-DD and my posts reflect it. This kid's got it and is the right guy for the job.

The point of my question (Who fires a coach...?) was not that it wasn't time for Phil to go, but to illustrate the height of this program's expectations. [Apparently, Phil made some so angry that any mention of him sends them off the deep end.]

Now I am completely confused about your logic here. Are you defending Fulmer by pointing out the height of our expectations? This program always has high expectations. So can you please tell us what exactly are you defending Fulmer? If you can't, please go back and form a logical and coherent argument before coming back.

Ironically, in the end, it is probable that Fulmer was fired not for 2005-2008, but for failing to win more championships when the Vols were winning 119 games in the 12 years from 1993 to 2004. Nasty business this.

Let the spewing commence.
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WiseOlVol ............................ NOT. You failed, failed miserably.
 
#155
#155
Hard to bash a man that gave us 100 more wins than losses and a national championship. He was under watch when we dropped off, but overall he brought a hell of a lot more good than bad to the program.
 
#156
#156
DarthVisor said:
Yes. The losing streak to Vandy sucked, but it wasn't at all comparable to the 07 game at UT. Beating Vandy is expected. Beating UT isn't. Although, the Vandy experience was a nice reality check for those of us who thought we were ready to challenge for the conference title. No, the 07 game was like having your heart ripped out.
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No worry, everyone who wants to rise to prominence has to go through a couple of tough losses like that. It's really a maturing process, but as long as you land solid classes and stay competitive, your turn will eventually come (as it did last year, and possibly this year too). The recipe of South Carolina's success is really our recipe to return to the top, and I feel like Tennessee is in a better position to do so.
 
#157
#157
VegasVol said:
I liked beating a top-5 team, and a rival to boot, by 21 in 2007; I liked beating 15th ranked South Carolina in 2007; I liked beating a good, top-20 Wisconsin team on NYD of 2008. Guess you missed those games.
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Georgia was not a big win. It was a good win. Not a big win.

South Carolina. Really? We are resorting to USClite as a "big win"? Honestly. That's a slap in the face to our program.

I didn't know Outback Bowl wins were big games. What stupidity.
 
#158
#158
Fulmer's last two years 15-12, one bowl game

The last two years without him: 13-13, two bowl games.

Yeah, we were really on the rise with Fulmer.
 
#159
#159
Incipient said:
You can play both sides here by saying "the case for keeping him is insane" (which it is) but "the case for defending him is not insane" (which it isn't, based on the entirety of his tenure).
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I would agree with this
 
#160
#160
Winning % with Fulmer's last four years: 29-21 (58%)

Winning % last two years: 13-13 (50%)

Let's just make a guess and say we go 8-4 the next two years, not unreasonable at all.

That makes it 29-21. 58%.

I bet Gibbs and Vegas would want Dooley gone if he went 8-4 in his 4th year.
 
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#161
#161
zjcvols said:
Winning % with Fulmer's last four years: 29-21 (58%)

Winning % last two years: 13-13 (50%)

Let's just make a guess and say we go 8-4 the next two years, not unreasonable at all.

That makes it 29-21. 58%.

I bet Gibbs and Vegas would want Dooley gone if he went 8-4 in his 4th year.
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Short of inheriting a program under major NCAA sanctions, I'd want any coach on the hot seat for going 8-4 in year 4 on the job. (Assuming that's the best season they've posted.)
 
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#163
#163
zjcvols said:
Winning % with Fulmer's last four years: 29-21 (58%)

Winning % last two years: 13-13 (50%)

Let's just make a guess and say we go 8-4 the next two years, not unreasonable at all.

That makes it 29-21. 58%.

I bet Gibbs and Vegas would want Dooley gone if he went 8-4 in his 4th year.
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And now you have confirmed your age, and thus your naivety is understandable.

The point of firing Fulmer was to improve on 9 - 3 seasons. 8 - 4 this year will be a GREAT job by Dooley. 8 - 4 next year will probably be a good job by Dooley. That record, which is "not unreasonable" is still behind the Fulmer Mean.

Thanks to the Hambone Experiment, we have to be more patient than usual. Thanks to the Hambone Experiment 2008 (and its all on Hambone) was a losing season. Thanks to the Hambone Experiment we have much farther to go. The HE gifted us the worst coaching hire in 60 years of SEC football, and the biggest busted class this side of Vandy. In fact, it may be on the Vandy side of the Cumberland.
 
#164
#164
I still find it hard to believe that people love to bash Fulmer, but defend Kiffin. As a UT I just don't understand that.

We have Dooley now. He is setting himself up with some decent talent on both sides of the ball. We'll find out what kind of X-O coach he is this season. We better win big games next season or we'll soon be coach hunting again.
 
#165
#165
UT IE 95 said:
I still find it hard to believe that people love to bash Fulmer, but defend Kiffin. As a UT I just don't understand that.

We have Dooley now. He is setting himself up with some decent talent on both sides of the ball. We'll find out what kind of X-O coach he is this season. We better win big games next season or we'll soon be coach hunting again.
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Some choose to believe that a top 10 national program was trashed in 12 months, but the guy running the ship for 16 years prior to that had nothing to do with the decline. If that's your stance, have at it.
 
#166
#166
utgibbs said:
And now you have confirmed your age, and thus your naivety is understandable.

The point of firing Fulmer was to improve on 9 - 3 seasons. 8 - 4 this year will be a GREAT job by Dooley. 8 - 4 next year will probably be a good job by Dooley. That record, which is "not unreasonable" is still behind the Fulmer Mean.

Thanks to the Hambone Experiment, we have to be more patient than usual. Thanks to the Hambone Experiment 2008 (and its all on Hambone) was a losing season. Thanks to the Hambone Experiment we have much farther to go. The HE gifted us the worst coaching hire in 60 years of SEC football, and the biggest busted class this side of Vandy. In fact, it may be on the Vandy side of the Cumberland.
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Evidently posting correct stats confirms your age. What does it mean when Vegas routinely posts figures that are without fail proven to be inaccurate? What about when you discuss how awesome the win % of the 2000s was vs. the 70s? What's it mean when you say LSU won the NC in 2002?
 
#169
#169
72 KPT VOL said:
Georgia was not a big win. It was a good win. Not a big win - DISAGEE.

This 2007 Ga team ended with only one loss and number two in final poll - it was a big big win for Vols to romp them.
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They lost to UT and a mediocre South Carolina team. Their biggest win was a Florida team that lost to the squad that got Lloyd Carr fired.
 
#170
#170
Without having read thru all the posts, I will say this and apologize if it has already been said......Fulmer's decline had to do more with loyalty than it did anything else. He was to loyal to his assistants when it was clear they weren't getting the job done coaching or recruiting.

While other teams constantly improved, Fulmer seemed ok to want to stay with the status quo and others quickly capitalized. Corey Miller said he had zero interest in UT because the coaches were old, boring and lethargic. Working like heck had it's merits in the 90's, but continuing to try and use old worn out techniques in game planning and recruiting were quickly gobbled up and spit out by better and more prepared coaches.
 
#171
#171
Bigun said:
Corey Miller said he had zero interest in UT because the coaches were old, boring and lethargic.
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yes

it took the young, interesting, and upbeat kiffy coaches to bring in one of the greatest recruiting classes in the history of the SEC ... oh, wait ...
 
#175
#175
tm3 said:
yes

it took the young, interesting, and upbeat kiffy coaches to bring in one of the greatest recruiting classes in the history of the SEC ... oh, wait ...
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Class was sixth when he left with a ton of highly rated guys ready to round it out. Dooley just hauled in a really good one, too. If you look back at Phil's 2009 class his most highly rated guys were almost all total busts. The class prior to that was just plain not good.
 
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