Dan Mullen thread (merged)

[Volstylexx]

Were you in a coma in the 2014 season? Or even 2015? He had a bad year in 2016 and still won 6 losing to UK.

MSU with their history and talent should be grateful to win 6 a year. Mullen deserves a chance to show what he can do with a legit program, similar to James Franklin.

and yet he hasn't left.

So now we are talking about whether or not Mullen is HOF-worthy? That's quite a big shift from your original argument that Mullen and Butch are essentially the same.

Don't play coy. You know the statement is true. When was the last time a coach was inducted into the hall of fame based on context and the premise they were actually a better coach than the numbers showed- if only they had played in a weaker division of a conference?

 

[Boston Vol]

Lol. No it hasn't. He has won NOTHING. If all he has is the argument "Well, its the SEC West and you know, well we play Bama and Auburn and LSU - and we have less talent, so 5th place is great!!"

that's no better than Butch saying, "Well we've lost a lot of key players due to injuries - and you know, it's tough playing in the SEC every week - so 3rd place is great!!"

Again, good coaches don't make excuses for injuries or for talents. They go out and they coach the team they have. They win games they shouldn't.

Mullen hasn't. Butch hasn't.

What did Mack Brown win at UNC to deserve the Texas job?
What did James Franklin win at Vanderbilt to deserve the Penn St job?
What did Nick Saban win at Michigan State to deserve the LSU job?
What did Jim Harbaugh win at USD to deserve the Stanford job?
What had Pete Carroll won to deserve the USC job?

None of those guys won jack sh*t before getting big time jobs. Looks like they all turned out ok.

 

[JMSqb11]

I thought Charlton Warren was supposed to be a good DB coach?

It doesn’t matter if we got Jeremy Pruitt on our staff coaching them.

There is a serious systematic coaching flaw with Butch when it comes to our secondary. These plays where our guys get beat happens every year. So far, we are 2-2 (.500) when it happens. In 2015, Callaway catches a ball and runs past everyone and we lose the game. UGA player drops the deep ball in the endzone late. Because of that, we win the game. In 2016, UGA does it again, but Jennings bails us out on Hail Mary. This year, it just happened vs Florida.

Something is going on there.

 

[Volstylexx]

No, you made the following statement:



If it were even remotely true, Saban would have never been given a second look, much less a first by LSU.

That was a different era of college football. During that time you could take a risk on a coach. Post-Saban, everyone wants the home run hire... and Saban's record without his name attached to it, would have been a hire most fans would laugh at.

 

[Booker512]

I thought Charlton Warren was supposed to be a good DB coach?

Everywhere he has coached DBs, his work speaks for itself. Multiple top10 pass defenses.

Except then he gets here and sucks.

Seems to be a trend with coaches that come and work for Butch.

I think Todd Granthams style of coaching is a lot different. He most likely wouldn't be retained and I haven't seen anything to suggest he should be so far.

Gillespie on the other hand has proven his RBs perform and he recruits exceptionally well. Warranting being retained.

 

[BeardedVol]

That was a different era of college football. During that time you could take a risk on a coach. Post-Saban, everyone wants the home run hire... and Saban's record without his name attached to it, would have been a hire most fans would laugh at.

So you are saying that LSU did take his record at Michigan State into context when they evaluated it, instead of just looking at the raw numbers?

You seem to be contradicting yourself, maybe you should go on to bed.

 

[Volsick]

Don't want Mullen. Jesus.

 

[Volstylexx]

What did Mack Brown win at UNC to deserve the Texas job?
What did James Franklin win at Vanderbilt to deserve the Penn St job?
What did Nick Saban win at Michigan State to deserve the LSU job?
What did Jim Harbaugh win at USD to deserve the Stanford job?
What had Pete Carroll won to deserve the USC job?

None of those guys won jack sh*t before getting big time jobs. Looks like they all turned out ok.

Again, a different era of college football.

Why did Texas go after Charlie Strong?
Why did they go after Herman?

Why are the pundits saying whoever gets Chip Kelly wins the college football coaching carousel?

Because a coaching search is no longer considering successful unless you hire someone who has proven they can win, and win lately.

If MSU wins 10 games this season and finishes 2nd in the West - I'd say Mullen has earned the right to be at the top of a TN search, but by today's metrics he has done nothing that would be considered "a home run hire."

 

[Booker512]

Again, a different era of college football.

Why did Texas go after Charlie Strong?
Why did they go after Herman?

Why are the pundits saying whoever gets Chip Kelly wins the college football coaching carousel?

Because a coaching search is no longer considering successful unless you hire someone who has proven they can win, and win lately.

If MSU wins 10 games this season and finishes 2nd in the West - I'd say Mullen has earned the right to be at the top of a TN search, but by today's metrics he has done nothing that would be considered "a home run hire."

What has chip Kelly won?

 

[Volstylexx]

So you are saying that LSU did take his record at Michigan State into context when they evaluated it, instead of just looking at the raw numbers?

You seem to be contradicting yourself, maybe you should go on to bed.

likewise. Your ignorance seems to be growing.

 

[BeardedVol]

Again, a different era of college football.

Why did Texas go after Charlie Strong?
Why did they go after Herman?

Why are the pundits saying whoever gets Chip Kelly wins the college football coaching carousel?

Because a coaching search is no longer considering successful unless you hire someone who has proven they can win, and win lately.

If MSU wins 10 games this season and finishes 2nd in the West - I'd say Mullen has earned the right to be at the top of a TN search, but by today's metrics he has done nothing that would be considered "a home run hire."

But Strong didn't win at Texas in spite of his W/L record at Louisville; how does that support your w/l record only approach to coaching evaluation?

Your original argument was that Mullen and Butch were the same, are you shifting it to mullen is not a home-run hire?

 

[Volstylexx]

What has chip Kelly won?

nothing other than 4 conference titles and a 46-7 overall win record at Oregon.. while going 33-3 in conference.

The metrics suggest he's far more likely to be successful as TN's coach than Mullen.

 

[JMSqb11]

But Strong didn't win at Texas in spite of his W/L record at Louisville; how does that support your w/l record only approach to coaching evaluation?

There’s been a lot of murder in the VolNation Streets tonight. Thought the bean counter was going to sleep thirty minutes ago?

 

[Boston Vol]

Again, a different era of college football.

Why did Texas go after Charlie Strong?
Why did they go after Herman?

Why are the pundits saying whoever gets Chip Kelly wins the college football coaching carousel?

Because a coaching search is no longer considering successful unless you hire someone who has proven they can win, and win lately.

If MSU wins 10 games this season and finishes 2nd in the West - I'd say Mullen has earned the right to be at the top of a TN search, but by today's metrics he has done nothing that would be considered "a home run hire."

A different era? James Franklin was hired in January 2014. Again what had he done to deserve the Penn St job? The best he did at Vandy was finish fourth in a bad sec East. maybe the people at PSU looked at his situation and realized that he was coaching at freaking Vanderbilt, and finishing fourth in the sec East is quite the accomplishment.

 

[Volstylexx]

But Strong didn't win at Texas in spite of his W/L record at Louisville; how does that support your w/l record only approach to coaching evaluation?

I've not said it supports it. That's not how objectively looking at the numbers work. Which is why i've also not said Mullen wouldn't be successful at TN. The truth is, we simply don't know. The metrics suggest he'd only be mediocre. The context, i'll give you, suggests the statistical probability of winning here might be higher than Butch - but the numbers don't support it.

 

[81Orange]

Butch is in year 5 and hasn't even beat a single West team. MSU might not beat Bama, but who does?

MSU plays all the west teams. TN only plays the tough ones. Look at the team Butch has played from the west and their rank when we played them. Our SOS is always high for a reason.

 

[Volstylexx]

There’s been a lot of murder in the VolNation Streets tonight. Thought the bean counter was going to sleep thirty minutes ago?

figured i'd stay up a bit longer. Don't worry though - headed there soon. You and Bearded Vol will have plenty of time to snuggle up together and have sweet Mullen dreams.

 

[Boston Vol]

and yet he hasn't left.



Don't play coy. You know the statement is true. When was the last time a coach was inducted into the hall of fame based on context and the premise they were actually a better coach than the numbers showed- if only they had played in a weaker division of a conference?

Don Nehlen at West Virginia
Dick McPherson at Syracuse
Mike Belotti at Oregon
Grant Teaff at Baylor
George Welsh at UVA
Jerry Claiborne
Fisher DeBerry at Air Force

 

[BeardedVol]

figured i'd stay up a bit longer. Don't worry though - headed there soon. You and Bearded Vol will have plenty of time to snuggle up together and have sweet Mullen dreams.

Never go to bed angry, you only hurt yourself.

 

[JMSqb11]

I've not said it supports it. That's not how objectively looking at the numbers work. Which is why i've also not said Mullen wouldn't be successful at TN. The truth is, we simply don't know. The metrics suggest he'd only be mediocre. The context, i'll give you, suggests the statistical probability of winning here might be higher than Butch - but the numbers don't support it.

Once again, no they don’t. Your metrics don’t include strength of schedule and recruiting rankings. If Mullen is “‘mediocre” with a tougher strength of schedule than Tennessee and way worse recruiting than Tennessee, he would be better than mediocre here because he would have a much easier schedule and much better recruiting rankings. By your own metrics, you literally made the case why he would be better at Tennessee. than Butch.

If you wanted to get real technical, you could also compare coaching blunders. Mullen is definitely not even with Butch on that. And that is something coaches definitely get accessed by.


Thank you and good night.

 

[JMSqb11]

MSU plays all the west teams. TN only plays the tough ones. Look at the team Butch has played from the west and their rank when we played them. Our SOS is always high for a reason.

Mullen went 2-2 vs Butch’s 1-3 against common opponents last year. And Mullen had a way worse roster even with Tennessee’s injuries. So there goes that comparison......

 

[Volstylexx]

Once again, no they don’t. Your metrics don’t include strength of schedule and recruiting rankings. If Mullen is “‘mediocre” with a tougher strength of schedule than Tennessee and way worse recruiting than Tennessee, he would be better than mediocre here because he would have a much easier schedule and much better recruiting rankings. By your own metrics, you literally made the case why he would be better at Tennessee. than Butch.

Thank you and good night.

Again, the numbers don't lie.

2016-2017 TN - 24th Toughest Schedule
MSU - 50th

2015-2016 TN - 12th
MSU - 9th

2014- 2015 TN - 24th
MSU - 10th

2013-2014 TN - 33rd
MSU - 20th

2012-2013 TN - 32nd
MSU - 43rd

5 year Average - TN 25
MSU - 26

If we're going to use strength of schedule, Mullen should be equaling Butch's record.

 

[zjcvols]

Does not matter.

Mullen is not leaving.

 

[Volstylexx]

Mullen went 2-2 vs Butch’s 1-3 against common opponents last year. And Mullen had a way worse roster even with Tennessee’s injuries. So there goes that comparison......

and yet MSU had a far easier schedule last year - TN's was twice as difficult, yet MSU only went 6-7, 3-5 in the league, and beating Miami of Ohio in a bowl 17-16.

 

[Volstylexx]

Does not matter.

Mullen is not leaving.

I mean. Why would he? If people are praising his coaching for finishing 5th in the West, and he's a top 10 paid coach - why leave?

He'd never survive here with our expecations. In fact, I doubt anyone will.