Current O-Line=bad fit?

#226
#226
I don't disagree that we have to run the ball but what about the Colts under Peyton or the Packers last couple of years? They win plenty in big spots and were horrible running the ball.

Balance for the play action pass is most important and I would like to see Bray under center more. It give the RB a running head start.
 
#227
#227
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
You haven't refuted anything. History says, if you cannot run the ball, you will not succeed in the SEC.

The folks here that just want our O to just "sling it" are in for a mighty rude awakening when we get into SEC play.You go as far as you're running game and defense will take you in this league.
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If you think we can line up a running game and beat a bama or lsu because "we put our mind to it", you need to have somebody explain the game to you as you watch it, because that's not football, that's not our team makeup, and that's not going to be allowed by a Bama team. There are 2 teams made up that way and can try to win the trenches. Bama and LSU. Anybody else that tries is screwed. I don't know how else to explain it to you. You can wish all you want. You can dream that our OL is nasty and we have a heisman rb in the backfield. We don't, yet you act like that doesn't matter, as long as we give it our good ole best try.
 
#228
#228
Spartacavolus said:
If you think we can line up a running game and beat a bama or lsu because "we put our mind to it", you need to have somebody explain the game to you as you watch it, because that's not football, that's not our team makeup, and that's not going to be allowed by a Bama team. There are 2 teams made up that way and can try to win the trenches. Bama and LSU. Anybody else that tries is screwed. I don't know how else to explain it to you. You can wish all you want. You can dream that our OL is nasty and we have a heisman rb in the backfield. We don't, yet you act like that doesn't matter, as long as we give it our good ole best try.
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Quite touchy this morning ain't we? I never said that we should line up and pound UF or Bama for that matter. You make them respect your run and when they do you make them pay with the pass.
 
#229
#229
Spartacavolus said:
Hey bipolar man, don't start this crap again today and stop trying to dictate what I am saying. I don't know who your refer to as "we" anyway. I'm not arguing with your whiny ass as to if we need to run the ball or not. Obviously balance is best. That's damn common sense. If we run for 175 yards against Florida as we have the first 2 games, I don't care where we got it, or how many big plays it came in. I am aware the running game isn't great, and I am aware more than you will ever be as to the multiple reasons why, from coaching, scheme, strengths, weaknesses, rb ability, etc.
I was referencing the commentary in regards to wearing down the DL of the opponent by running the ball at them. We are not a team that is built to wear down the DL by running the ball.
So, in summary, don't try to give me football, or life for that matter, lessons. And don't stick your nose in a dialogue by calling someone dense, especially when you don't know wtf you are getting into.
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This is what people do, when they start to realize they didn't know what others were talking about, and making comments they now realize they shouldn't have.

You made the argument about power running, all certain posters in here were saying was "running the football" effectively is what we need to do. If people are all giddy with a sub 200 yard performance against a crappy team like GSU, then they will be happy with 50 yards against UF. The biggest difference is, we will lose to UF, if we only have 50 yards. UT has to hit the 100 yard mark to win against UF, and there's no if's, and's, or but's about it. I don't care how we get it, we have to have that much.
 
#231
#231
Orange Blazer said:
We aren't a power running team. Just because you say we have to be wont make us magically become one. We just have to run enough to make teams respect it. I believe we will.
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magically ? when pigs fly and there are orange dogs ?:loco: got to make em fear the run,for what it is this year
 
#234
#234
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
You mean the same size and talent that gave up 4 or 5 sacks to W. Kentucky yesterday? That talent?:dance:
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Sparta

Where did you get power running team from anything i said here?
I was saying that you can do what you have the mindset to do and are trained to do. Nothing about all of a sudden becoming a power running team.
If Kiffin can take a make shift O-line into bama and manage some sort of run game, this team can do the same. Especially considering we are a much better team now.
No, we are not going to shove it down their throat, but i hope we can make them at least have some respect for our run game.
 
#235
#235
zjcvols said:
Was thinking about why our run game has struggled. And I think maybe a reason could be the players and the scheme.

Chaney runs a zone blocking scheme for the running game. I watched a video from Alex Gibbs (some consider him the "father of the zone run game", he was the Denver Broncos O-Line coach during the Broncos' two super bowl seasons) and says you must have a agile, quick offensive line. You block areas in a zone, and you must be able to be quick off the snap and find your man. You have to be able to beat your man to the spot/area in which you are blocking.

Well, look at our starting O-line weight:

Richardson: 332 lbs
Fulton: 324 lbs
James: 323 lbs
Thomas: 310 lbs
Stone: 300 lbs

Those are big boys. I noticed some today that the lineman don't have extremely quick feet laterally. They do move back well in pass protection and do well in that area.

I wonder if maybe our current O-Line and the scheme doesn't fit. It just surprises me we have such a good pass blocking team, but our run blocking team is so mediocre.

What do you think VN?
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ZJ, you have just explained something that I have been trying to get the words for for awhile. We have GOOD EXPERIENCED guys on the O-Line and we have a GOOD EXPERIENCED O-Line coach. Yes our backs are middle of the road or a little better, but I think that this is a scheme issue. One more reason that I think that CJC is too set in his ways to be able to adapt to the talent available or maybe Spliffin was the real genius behind the O. He has been here as long as this line has and he knows what he has got to work with. Why haven't the blocking schemes changed to be able to take advantage of the big boys instead of trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole as far as the run game goes. Also, is it fair to expect guys that are built to pass block to zone block for the run? Seems like that wouldn't work.

We weren't that complicated in HS and we also had tanks on the OL so it was basically get your guy and bulldoze him. I was a little punk shrimp that played WR, SS, and scout team RB (boy was that painful, spent most of my HS days concussed). So, having said that, I don't know much about blocking schemes. It just seems like we can't be that bad at run blocking but be that good at pass blocking, these guys have talent, it just isn't being used properly.
 
#236
#236
zjcvols said:
Was thinking about why our run game has struggled. And I think maybe a reason could be the players and the scheme.

Chaney runs a zone blocking scheme for the running game. I watched a video from Alex Gibbs (some consider him the "father of the zone run game", he was the Denver Broncos O-Line coach during the Broncos' two super bowl seasons) and says you must have a agile, quick offensive line. You block areas in a zone, and you must be able to be quick off the snap and find your man. You have to be able to beat your man to the spot/area in which you are blocking.

Well, look at our starting O-line weight:

Richardson: 332 lbs
Fulton: 324 lbs
James: 323 lbs
Thomas: 310 lbs
Stone: 300 lbs

Those are big boys. I noticed some today that the lineman don't have extremely quick feet laterally. They do move back well in pass protection and do well in that area.

I wonder if maybe our current O-Line and the scheme doesn't fit. It just surprises me we have such a good pass blocking team, but our run blocking team is so mediocre.

What do you think VN?
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I tend to agree with you. They are almost too big and not quite quick enough. I think a little smaller and more athletic would be better. They are bigger than a lot of pro teams.
 
#237
#237
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Quite touchy this morning ain't we? I never said that we should line up and pound UF or Bama for that matter. You make them respect your run and when they do you make them pay with the pass.
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You said we pound the rock at a team like bama, if we put our mind to it. You even mentioned w ky getting sacks against bama as an example.

Not too touchy this morning. Just tired of arguing with people who change their tune and act like they didn't say something, or with a Mitch like Eric that whines all day, everyday.

Going to Titans. Far from touchy.
 
#238
#238
Spartacavolus said:
You said we pound the rock at a team like bama, if we put our mind to it. You even mentioned w ky getting sacks against bama as an example.

Not too touchy this morning. Just tired of arguing with people who change their tune and act like they didn't say something, or with a Mitch like Eric that whines all day, everyday.

Going to Titans. Far from touchy.
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Show me where i said pound bama? I said you can do what you damn well set your mind to do and are trained to do.

I used the WK game as an example of people doing their job. I didnt mean that we can line up and shove it down their throat, i meant that we must have SOME kind of running game.
 
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#239
#239
governmentmule said:
there is definitely something wrong ,i don't know if it is the scheme,the players or the play calling,from there size they should be able to bull doze players out of the way,but they don't,there should be big open holes,but it is rare,or it could be the running backs,which we all know is a huge glaring spot for the Vols,we don't have a so called down hill runner,it seems to be numerous things,the OL coach ,RB coach and OC need to get on the same page for sure
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Well, don't the RB and OL coaches "work" for the OC? Looks like the OC doesn't have a page to get on. What gets me is that when we get in down and goal position (this year and last), that CJC goes to plays that haven't worked all drive, all day, all season, etc. Then we wind up with Cardiac Palardy trying to get us 3 when a little better scheming and/or play calling would have gotten us 6.
 
#240
#240
zjcvols said:
Was thinking about why our run game has struggled. And I think maybe a reason could be the players and the scheme.

Chaney runs a zone blocking scheme for the running game. I watched a video from Alex Gibbs (some consider him the "father of the zone run game", he was the Denver Broncos O-Line coach during the Broncos' two super bowl seasons) and says you must have a agile, quick offensive line. You block areas in a zone, and you must be able to be quick off the snap and find your man. You have to be able to beat your man to the spot/area in which you are blocking.

Well, look at our starting O-line weight:

Richardson: 332 lbs
Fulton: 324 lbs
James: 323 lbs
Thomas: 310 lbs
Stone: 300 lbs

Those are big boys. I noticed some today that the lineman don't have extremely quick feet laterally. They do move back well in pass protection and do well in that area.

I wonder if maybe our current O-Line and the scheme doesn't fit. It just surprises me we have such a good pass blocking team, but our run blocking team is so mediocre.

What do you think VN?
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I think that has something to do w it.

The scheme also requires RBs to quickly identify the hole and hit it. Something our RBs struggle with.

So it's a combination of all those things.
 
#241
#241
g8terh8ter_eric said:
This is what people do, when they start to realize they didn't know what others were talking about, and making comments they now realize they shouldn't have.

You made the argument about power running, all certain posters in here were saying was "running the football" effectively is what we need to do. If people are all giddy with a sub 200 yard performance against a crappy team like GSU, then they will be happy with 50 yards against UF. The biggest difference is, we will lose to UF, if we only have 50 yards. UT has to hit the 100 yard mark to win against UF, and there's no if's, and's, or but's about it. I don't care how we get it, we have to have that much.
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Hey Sybil, you are the one suggesting we beat the likes of bama and lsu by pounding them with the run and wearing out their d. You are the one insisting that's the way to beat them. It's just a few posts up from here.
You are so all over the place, you lose track of any point you try to make. Now, you are changing it to we just need to run for 100. Does that sound like pounding the middle of the dl to wear them down and win championships? Not at all. What you just now suggested is a semblance of a running game to keep them honest and make a few plays, which is the type of team we are, and what we are capable of.
 
#242
#242
Spartacavolus said:
You said we pound the rock at a team like bama, if we put our mind to it. You even mentioned w ky getting sacks against bama as an example.

Not too touchy this morning. Just tired of arguing with people who change their tune and act like they didn't say something, or with a Mitch like Eric that whines all day, everyday.

Going to Titans. Far from touchy.
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This is all you got to go with, huh??
 
#243
#243
Spartacavolus said:
The biggest hole of the day was shown from the ground endzone level. Neal stagger stepped, slowed a tad, then hit the gear. That's too much time and is a bad habit. I know he is keeping his feet moving and tries to be patient, but when you see light, you gotta go now.

I liked Q. Don't care who it was against. I like Lane too, but that fumble cost him and his propensity to get spun down awkwardly annoys me for some reason.
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Running right, carrying the ball in left arm only through the hole. TWO HANDS WHILE LEARNING!

Running right or running left, through the hole the ball is covered with both arms. Running right the ball should either be in the left arm or preferably covered with both arms going through the hole. Unfortunately this is either poor coaching, refusal to learn, or the old "this is just GStU" mental attitude. That fumble wasn't good defense or a bad handoff, it was poor ball protection by the back.
 
#244
#244
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Show me where i said pound bama? I said you can do what you damn well set your mind to do and are trained to do.

I used the WK game as an example of people doing their job. I didnt mean that we can line up and shove it down their throat, i meant that we must have SOME kind of running game.
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There you go again. We can't pound the rock at bama and wear them down, just because we set our mind to it. We can't run the option with bray, just because we set our mind to it. Maybe its just semantics. Everybody knows we need to run the ball. We can't throw 50 times and survive this league. But we can't be something we are not, no matter how our mind is set to it.
 
#245
#245
g8terh8ter_eric said:
This is all you got to go with, huh??
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All I need. You are the resident VN drama queen, and its getting old. You just went from pounding teams in the run so they give up, like bama and lsu, to focusing on hitting 100 yards to beat Florida. 2 totally opposite comments from you within minutes.
 
#246
#246
Spartacavolus said:
There you go again. We can't pound the rock at bama and wear them down, just because we set our mind to it. We can't run the option with bray, just because we set our mind to it. Maybe its just semantics. Everybody knows we need to run the ball. We can't throw 50 times and survive this league. But we can't be something we are not, no matter how our mind is set to it.
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Can you read properly? Its an honest question.

I never said pound the rock at bama and wear them down, thats suicide. We do have to have some sort of running game to complement the pass.
 
#247
#247
I'm not sure what you guys want from this team?!?! We have doubled our run production since last year 187 per game. We are a pass first team! We are not going to run for 300+ yard a game. Lets be happy with what we have now, which is working just fine!
 
#249
#249
Spartacavolus said:
All I need. You are the resident VN drama queen, and its getting old. You just went from pounding teams in the run so they give up, like bama and lsu, to focusing on hitting 100 yards to beat Florida. 2 totally opposite comments from you within minutes.
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Check this out...

Since you don't have the ability to comprehend what certain people are saying, and think you can make yourself look better by just trying to insult someone, let me spell it out for you....

Pounding the rock, just means running the ball with authority. I don't know where on Earth you have gotten this idea in your dead that it just means "power", but there is much more to it.

Also, if we can't run the ball with some type of authority against UF, we WILL lose. History not only suggests it, but shows it very plainly.

If you have that big of a problem with me, send me to ignore land.
 
#250
#250
Bobby720 said:
I'm not sure what you guys want from this team?!?! We have doubled our run production since last year 187 per game. We are a pass first team! We are not going to run for 300+ yard a game. Lets be happy with what we have now, which is working just fine!
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I think the point is. If we are averaging 187 a game against teams like NC State and GA State, those numbers are going to go down when we hit SEC play and we will become one dimensional. Its a valid concern.
 
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