Chryst dink and dunk qb

[Crazy Ivan]

No. He even said that was KC's game in high school if you read the article. Plus the qb after and the few qbs before all averaged at least 1 more ypa if not much more. He threw shorter passes as a jr than the freshman who replaced him with the same supporting cast. He is a dink and dunk qb.

He also said that is how Stanford's offense is built. Don't worry; I am not promoting Chryst over your guy: if JG starts that means he earned it, but remember, Detillier also said in another article that JG was "erratic" at the MPA last week, so to me there are still concerns at the position going in to fall camp. Both QBs will have to prove themselves.

But you know as well as I do that Pruitt and Helton didn't recruit Chryst to run a dink and dunk offense, and if they didn't think he could be effective in a vertical passing attack they wouldn't have signed him.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

So then you go out and get a Grad Transfer with one year of elgibility instead of possibly a JUCO (who is decent) with more elgibility?

Come on man. Chryst was brought in to make an immediate impact. Just like every other Grad Transfer that is brought in....

Edit: Plus I said I didn't know if he would win the job. Just stating why he was brought in.

You have to think of the context of when he was brought in too, though. The coaches hadn’t had practice with either of our 2 QBs when we landed Chryst. Our OL wasn’t good enough to keep anybody healthy in 2017. We had to play 3 QBs and one game our chances practically went down the drain because we had to burn the RS of a freshman who wasn’t ready.


The coaches brought in Chryst because they needed an extra guy in the QB room with experience as a P5 starter. Even with our OL additions, our depth there is still spotty enough that we can’t reliably predict they’ll keep a starting QB healthy. Bringing in Chryst insures that we’ve got at least 2 QBs with more than 1 game of experience and that our chances of beating a team like Mizzou or UK won’t go completely down the drain if our starter is injured.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

The SEC had 5 top 25 Defense's last year in a 14 team league vs the Pac 12 who had 3 of their 12 in the top 25 defense's. That's with much better passing offense's in the Pac 12. Last year as a group the SEC gave up 26.4 pts a game vs 29.5 in the Pac 12. Not a big gap..In the past 3 yrs the SEC as a group has given u 29.2 pts a game vs Pac 12 32.0..Not a big gap, especially considering the much better offense's being in the Pac 12. In the 3 yrs average I took out the Pac 12's worst Defense ( Oregon St 52.7 pts game and the SEC's worst Tex A'M 41.3) and the gap went to 30.2 for the SEC vs 28.2 for the Pac 12. So the Pac 12 not playing Defense vs the SEC isn't true. Especially when you consider how much better the QB's and offense's are out there.

I'm not saying Chryst will ever start or play well, but these stats disprove the huge gap in conference Defense's.

This is a flawed analysis. You should be looking at the defenses Chryst faced vs those JG faced. In 2016, Chryst only faced terrible defenses. In 2017, he faced a couple good ones and struggled.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Not true. The last 3 yr average Stanford is behind Washington,Utah,USC,Cal,Oregon and tied with UCLA in points a game given up. Washington was a Top 7 Defense last year.

This is edit: very, very misleading.


Stanford has been top 3 in the Pac-12 in scoring defense over the past 3 seasons. Oregon has been 8th at best and was dead last one year.


cfbstats.com - 2015 Pac-12 Conference Team Leaders

FWIW, among the defenses Chryst in 2016, Rice had the best statistical scoring defense and gave up 35.8 points per game. The best PAC-12 defense he faced, Arizona, gave up 38.3 points per game. The worst, Oregon, gave up 42.6 per game. Stanford gave up 20.4 per game.

 

[jakez4ut]

You have to think of the context of when he was brought in too, though. The coaches hadn’t had practice with either of our 2 QBs when we landed Chryst. Our OL wasn’t good enough to keep anybody healthy in 2017. We had to play 3 QBs and one game our chances practically went down the drain because we had to burn the RS of a freshman who wasn’t ready.


The coaches brought in Chryst because they needed an extra guy in the QB room with experience as a P5 starter. Even with our OL additions, our depth there is still spotty enough that we can’t reliably predict they’ll keep a starting QB healthy. Bringing in Chryst insures that we’ve got at least 2 QBs with more than 1 game of experience and that our chances of beating a team like Mizzou or UK won’t go completely down the drain if our starter is injured.

I'm not sure why people don't see this.:thumbsup:

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I know you and I have gone back and forth on this and I'm not getting into that again, but will say 1 thing on this. I know you love throwing stats out and as I've argued, stats can be deceptive..

Coming from someone who always seems to pick the worst stats possible for his arguments. Like when you went on and on about the SOS of Chryst's 2016 PAC 12 opponents vs Tennessee's...but neglected to mention that Chryst only started against one bowl eligible team (in their bowl game) that season.

Or trying to portray Stanford's defense as worse than an Oregon defensive units that were historically bad in 2015 and 2016.

The irony here is astounding.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

It could be a number of things.. ball placement, call, incompletions, coverage... my point isn’t that he is a great QB but that saying a QB in a West coast system is a dink and dunk guy is like saying the water is wet. It makes no sense...

It makes plenty of sense. The analyst was talking about ability, not what Stanford does schematically.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I think you can say whatever you want about Chryst the facts are that he has won 11 of 13 games as a QB.

The other fact is he hasn't thrown a single ball for the University of Tennessee in any game type situation.

To just consider him a dink and dunk passer is silly, because he hasn't played in UTs offense.

1. Of the 11 games he started and finished, 4 had winning records. He was 2-2 in those games.

2. It's not silly to say that about him if you're basing it off of games he started at Stanford.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

1. Of the 11 games he started and finished, 4 had winning records. He was 2-2 in those games.

2. It's not silly to say that about him if you're basing it off of games he started at Stanford.

You know I always appreciate your input Darth.

That's why I said he hasn't even thrown for UT yet. Essentially you could have called JG a Dink and Dunk passer last year. Half his passes were no more than about 10yds.

 

[VolEngineer]

You have to think of the context of when he was brought in too, though. The coaches hadn’t had practice with either of our 2 QBs when we landed Chryst. Our OL wasn’t good enough to keep anybody healthy in 2017. We had to play 3 QBs and one game our chances practically went down the drain because we had to burn the RS of a freshman who wasn’t ready.


The coaches brought in Chryst because they needed an extra guy in the QB room with experience as a P5 starter. Even with our OL additions, our depth there is still spotty enough that we can’t reliably predict they’ll keep a starting QB healthy. Bringing in Chryst insures that we’ve got at least 2 QBs with more than 1 game of experience and that our chances of beating a team like Mizzou or UK won’t go completely down the drain if our starter is injured.

Exactly what I've been saying. It's an insurance policy. That's the difference between jones and Pruitt. Last season we had three qbs on the roster that had never started a game end up starting a game. Only one had any experience prior and his was not very much. No insurance policy or experience whatsoever. This year, Pruitt has 3 quarterbacks that have started games, and three quarterbacks that by that point in the season should be able to manage a game or play well enough if needed. If the o line struggles early on and the qb is getting hit before or after he throws alot, the two can be rotated. If an injury occurs we have a backup that has experience and is a good athlete no matter the starter at the beginning. That's why jones never accomplished anything here. Once his original plan failed, everything imploded because lack of an insurance policy, and no one getting reps until they were thrown in because of injuries. Most of our players were learning on the job for much of the past few seasons.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

You know I always appreciate your input Darth.

That's why I said he hasn't even thrown for UT yet. Essentially you could have called JG a Dink and Dunk passer last year. Half his passes were no more than about 10yds.

You could, I guess. But the fact that no analysts have is telling. JG's problems as a QB have little to do with arm talent. He just hasn't been any good at the intangible aspects of being a QB yet.


Chryst is basically the opposite. He's shown the ability to do things like feel/escape from pressure, get rid of the ball quickly, and make quick decisions. But his arm has never been that great. Go watch the games he played in: he's just not consistently accurate. His ball placement is often poor (even on his "good" throws) and he's not great on obvious passing downs.



IDK which one will end up winning the job. If we end up being good enough defensively to play things safe offensively, I could see Chryst's steady hand being our better bet. If the defense isn't great and we need our offense to push the ball down field much, Chryst won't be our guy.

 

[DaUndergroundMan]

Sorry d87, but I agree with fade on this one. From most accounts, Guarantano has done nothing but improve throughout the offseason and spring. Cryst couldn't hold the starting position at a run first Stanford, how's he going to fair in the SEC? Maybe he surprises us all and is phenomenal, I just don't see it, though.

Yep unfortunately those "accounts" don't include anyone that matters.

The "accounts" in the the black for Guarantano are known fanboys.

i.e. Swain and k-town king.

In other words the founding members of the Guarantano fan club. President and also a client.

Because they must be one and the same.

If you have a mens bathroom, i'm betting that one stall woukd provide all the relief you need for those two entities.

One fly, one shake. And if by chance I'm wrong....

Welll.....One stall would still get it done.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

You could, I guess. But the fact that no analysts have is telling. JG's problems as a QB have little to do with arm talent. He just hasn't been any good at the intangible aspects of being a QB yet.


Chryst is basically the opposite. He's shown the ability to do things like feel/escape from pressure, get rid of the ball quickly, and make quick decisions. But his arm has never been that great. Go watch the games he played in: he's just not consistently accurate. His ball placement is often poor (even on his "good" throws) and he's not great on obvious passing downs.



IDK which one will end up winning the job. If we end up being good enough defensively to play things safe offensively, I could see Chryst's steady hand being our better bet. If the defense isn't great and we need our offense to push the ball down field much, Chryst won't be our guy.

I cant disagree with this. Very well put.

 

[felloffthetrain]

Didn't Chryst get hurt and lose the job to the backup? Like Fromm and Eason?

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

Didn't Chryst get hurt and lose the job to the backup? Like Fromm and Eason?

Yes Chryst did get hurt and didn't play for something like 6-8 months.

(He is completely healed now and should look better this season especially with UT running the type of offense they will be running.)

 

[TNV]

Chryst will be the starter. He fits this offense perfectly. I love JG but there is absolutely no way he will be more ready after commanding the team to our worst record ever. I truly hope he has matured and believe that one day he will be at least good if not better than good but Peyton he ain't. I just hope that Coach Friend can coach the boys up to keep Chryst from getting blindsided every other play. We don't need JG this year...we definately need better and JG needs another year to get better as well.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

Heads up, I just found these Gems which show Chryst making a lot of tough throws. Even making accurate throws down field while taking contact.

Pocket presence/awareness is very good. With a quick read/release.

These highlights show he isn't just a dink and dunk passer and shows that he definitely has accuracy unlike what I've been seeing people state. (Multiple throws in-between/over defenders)

Keller Chryst QB Stanford 2016 - YouTube

As well as this one last year, he made a lot of tough throws in both years.

Keller Chryst QB Stanford 2017 - YouTube

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Heads up, I just found these Gems which show Chryst making a lot of tough throws. Even making accurate throws down field while taking contact.

Pocket presence/awareness is very good. With a quick read/release.

These highlights show he isn't just a dink and dunk passer and shows that he definitely has accuracy unlike what I've been seeing people state. (Multiple throws in-between/over defenders)

Keller Chryst QB Stanford 2016 - YouTube

As well as this one last year, he made a lot of tough throws in both years.

Keller Chryst QB Stanford 2017 - YouTube

You don’t expect them to put the ones he threw behind WRs or in the dirt on a highlight tape, do you? There’s a reason coaches use game film, not highlights, to evaluate players.


Accuracy is about more than making a nice throw here and there. It’s about consistently putting balls where they need to be. Chryst has struggled doing that week in and week out.

Watch whole games he played in 2016 and 2017. He was great against Oregon both years, and other than that very inconsistent.



I’m not trying to pile on Chryst or anything. I really like his running ability, I think he throws pretty well on the run, and his arm is definitely strong enough to make just about any throw. But if you go watch his full games, he just hasn’t shown the ability to be consistently accurate. That’s just a truth. Given that he was playing with pretty good OLs and and a run game that could take pressure off him, that’s troubling.

(edit: huge aside here... I can’t remember which game it was, but probably my favorite throw I’ve seen from his games was one where he broke out of the pocket to buy some time, saw he had a WR near the end zone single covered and the defender with his back to the QB, and threw a bullet downfield for a TD and drew a PI. TBH, the throw wasn’t placed that well, but Chryst was able to escape pressure, see that his WR was in a position where any catchable ball thrown on a rope would be a TD or a PI, and make the play. It wasn’t a great throw, but Chryst’s other abilities allowed him to make a great play. If Chryst is gonna be a successful QB for us, I think It will be with more plays like this than standing in the pocket delivering strikes)

Maybe he improves under Helton in 2018. It’s not unheard of for experienced senior QBs to make moderate to big jumps in performance. Dobbs did in 2016 as a passer (though he’d had nearly twice as many games under his belt up to that point, was in his 4th year in Jones’ system, and was playing mostly familiar opponents). Maybe Chryst will too.



But anybody who watches 5-6 full games of Chryst’s and comes away expecting him to be a high percentage passer for us in an offense that is (supposedly, at least) trying to emphasize more downfield passing is setting themselves up for disappointment, IMO. Just like anybody who is expecting JG to look like a completely new QB and for him to completely correct his bad habits of holding on to the ball too long or not knowing the best time to take off and run vs when to throw the ball away.


IMO, who ultimately ends up as our guy this season is gonna come down to what we need out of the offense. If the coaches decide we need a game manager who will mostly be smart with the call and avoid negative plays, Chryst is the guy. If they decide we can give up a couple more sacks here and there if it means we have someone who can sling it, JG will be the guy.

If JG wins the job outright and keeps it all season, it will likely mean that our OL improved a whole lot and JG finally learned how to be a QB and not just a guy who can sling the ball around.

 

[feathersax]

QB position is sounding even more worrisome than I feared.

Only if you listen to the Nervous Nellies on VN. Chill out & relax, pal...the talent at qb is there & with Helton & Weinke coaching them up, it's fine. eace2:

 

[butchna]

Heads up, I just found these Gems which show Chryst making a lot of tough throws. Even making accurate throws down field while taking contact.

Pocket presence/awareness is very good. With a quick read/release.

These highlights show he isn't just a dink and dunk passer and shows that he definitely has accuracy unlike what I've been seeing people state. (Multiple throws in-between/over defenders)

Keller Chryst QB Stanford 2016 - YouTube

As well as this one last year, he made a lot of tough throws in both years.

Keller Chryst QB Stanford 2017 - YouTube

Highlights.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

Highlights.

Obviously they are highlights. I only stated that they showed him making those longer more accurate throws people said he can't make. Half of those throws he was being hit and still completing passes. (They show he isn't just a dink and dunk passer)

They showed him making reads and getting the ball out. (Show me 2 long highlight films of JG being able to make those kids of throws - there isn't any and obviously Chrysts O-Line wasn't as good as people say because he got hit in almost all of those highlight throws)

He has upside and like Darth said if Helton coaches him up and he works on his accuracy more he could be a good QB especially since he already knows how to escape those rushes or stand in and still make throws down field.

What I am saying is with the right coaching Chryst could do some damage. (Plus he has less to fix)

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Obviously they are highlights. I only stated that they showed him making those longer more accurate throws people said he can't make. Half of those throws he was being hit and still completing passes. (They show he isn't just a dink and dunk passer)

They showed him making reads and getting the ball out. (Show me 2 long highlight films of JG being able to make those kids of throws - there isn't any and obviously Chrysts O-Line wasn't as good as people say because he got hit in almost all of those highlight throws)

He has upside and like Darth said if Helton coaches him up and he works on his accuracy more he could be a good QB especially since he already knows how to escape those rushes or stand in and still make throws down field.

What I am saying is with the right coaching Chryst could do some damage. (Plus he has less to fix)

Less to fix is arguable. QB coaches can work with a QB to develop situational awareness. Accuracy is usually something you’re have or you don't. And Chryst has had twice as long to develop as JG. My guess is that he is what he is at this point: a big bodied QB who can manage a game with the right team around him and hurt opponents with his legs occasionally but won’t scare many opponents with his arm.


Sometimes QBs make a jump in the right circumstances. Being a grad transfer and playing your last semester of football on a new team in a been conference usually isn’t the ideal situation for a senior Qb to see a big jump in production.

 

[butchna]

Obviously they are highlights. I only stated that they showed him making those longer more accurate throws people said he can't make. Half of those throws he was being hit and still completing passes. (They show he isn't just a dink and dunk passer)

They showed him making reads and getting the ball out. (Show me 2 long highlight films of JG being able to make those kids of throws - there isn't any and obviously Chrysts O-Line wasn't as good as people say because he got hit in almost all of those highlight throws)

He has upside and like Darth said if Helton coaches him up and he works on his accuracy more he could be a good QB especially since he already knows how to escape those rushes or stand in and still make throws down field.

What I am saying is with the right coaching Chryst could do some damage. (Plus he has less to fix)

I’m sure one could find instances on film where noted noodle arm Rick Clausen made throws that were outside of his comfort zone. Doing it consistently without herculean effort is the standard. Quibble with your “long highlight film” assertion. That’s 3 YEARS of Chryst vs JG’s ONE and I didn’t have to wait very long to go to the bathroom.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

I’m sure one could find instances on film where noted noodle arm Rick Clausen made throws that were outside of his comfort zone. Doing it consistently without herculean effort is the standard. Quibble with your “long highlight film” assertion. That’s 3 YEARS of Chryst vs JG’s ONE and I didn’t have to wait very long to go to the bathroom.

Haha with you and Darth on me I believe I should concede defeat #WhiteFlag

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

I love the way people throw out the phrase "dink and dunk" like it's automatically a bad thing. There's a certain team in Foxborough that has been known as a dink and dunk team for nearly 2 decades now.